bigad

On a Polo 1.4 16v 75bhp

2 Faults Found:

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction

P1196 - 35-00 - -

17591 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

P1183 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

The second one is translated into "Linear O2 Sensor / Reference Voltage Short to B+"

A previous 17604 has been cleared, only to reappear 7 days later with the 17591 as well.

So any ideas how to sort the potential cause of these?
What does a short to B+ mean?

Adam

Chris_55

"What does a short to B+ mean?"

Short circuit of the affected circuit to another wire live at battery positive voltage.

Usually caused by damaged wiring, however the fault could be inside the O2 sensor itself.

bigad

Thanks Chris, I thought as much. Its an intermitted fault going by the codes - happens every so often

Decided to get it replaced - pricey though - £220 supplied and fitted at VW dealer.
Best price online £99.99 delivered from Lambdapower .

Can anyone confirm the oxygen sensor configuration on a 1.4 16v (2002) (engine code bby) - all the online sources I can find show it as a 5-wire, pre cat sensor, but they show nothing for post cat. Is there a post cat sensor? Anyone have any experience of this on similar fabias or polos?

bigad

Okay, the plot thickens! (long post)

As the pound is so strong against the dollar I'm now proud to have a registered and activated vag com installation!!!

I ran an autoscan on it tonight - just for fun and found an extra three fault codes

3 Faults Found:
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

Previously I got these ones;
2 Faults Found:

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction
P1196 - 35-00 - -

17591 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1183 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

The 17591 being Linear O2 Sensor / Reference Voltage Short to B+"

Now to me this seems a bit odd - different components complaining about electrical shorts.

Checked the voltage with engine stopped (though vag-com) - 11.80v
and again with engine running - 14.5ish v (I think)
Does that seem about right? 11.80v seems a bit low to me, and over 14 quite high.


Low and behold, sitting with the engine idling it all went a bit rough (like it wanted to stall) and the CEL came on again.
giving;
17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction
P1196 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

So, is there any consensus on what to do next? I realise that this heater circuit on the o2 sensor is to do with keeping it hot when the car is cold - I think thats when all of the CEL have appeared - when engine not up to temperature and idling in traffic.
Does it sound like it would be worth replacing the sensor (@ approx £130 fitted), or are the electrical type issues likely to be the cause (and so £130 would be wasted on the o2 sensor)?

Any experience or advice much appreciated!

Chris_55

I think your battery voltage readings are OK.

I'm fairly sure that there is a measuring block that enables you to read the O2 sensor heating current.
I'm sure if you post the engine code and the full text of the auto scan (including the Module ID's etc.) Sebastian will be able to help you.

You could also try posting here:

VAG-COM diagnostic tool technical support

bigad

Thanks Chris

Engine code is BBY

A few logs (first one just a copy of the initial fault codes, not a full autoscan);

Monday, 04 December 2006, 18:04:41
VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 036 906 034 DD
Component and/or Version: MARELLI 4MV 4963
Software Coding: 00071
Work Shop Code: WSC 00566

2 Faults Found:
17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction
P1196 - 35-00 - -
17591 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs
P1183 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

FIRST AUTOSCAN;

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US


Chassis Type: 9N - VW Polo
Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,15,17,19,37,44,45,46,55,56,69

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine
Controller: 036 906 034 DD
Component: MARELLI 4MV 4963
Coding: 00071
Shop #: WSC 00566

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes
Controller: 6Q0 907 379 E
Component: ABS FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0001097
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC
Controller: 6Q0 820 045
Component: Klimaanlage X0840
3 Faults Found:
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.
Controller: 6Q1 937 049 B
Component: BORDNETZ-SG. 1S31
Coding: 25742
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skipping Address 15-Airbags

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments
Controller: 6Q0 920 900 X
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V18
Coding: 01441
Shop #: WSC 00566

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway
Controller: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 1S31
Coding: 00014
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist
Controller: 6Q0 423 156 M
Component: LenkhilfeTRW V210
Coding: 00140
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor
Controller: 6Q0 951 171
Component: Innenraumueberw. 0018
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 6Q0 959 433 E
Component: 28 Komfortgerát 0001
Coding: 00064
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Controller: 6N0 035 186 B
Component: Radio BNO 0006
Coding: 06401
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAULT CODES CLEARED, ENGINE STARTED

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US


Chassis Type: 9N - VW Polo
Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,15,17,19,37,44,45,46,55,56,69

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine
Controller: 036 906 034 DD
Component: MARELLI 4MV 4963
Coding: 00071
Shop #: WSC 00566

1 Fault Found:
17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction
P1196 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes
Controller: 6Q0 907 379 E
Component: ABS FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0001097
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC
Controller: 6Q0 820 045
Component: Klimaanlage X0840
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.
Controller: 6Q1 937 049 B
Component: BORDNETZ-SG. 1S31
Coding: 25742
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skipping Address 15-Airbags

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments
Controller: 6Q0 920 900 X
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V18
Coding: 01441
Shop #: WSC 00566

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway
Controller: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 1S31
Coding: 00014
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist
Controller: 6Q0 423 156 M
Component: LenkhilfeTRW V210
Coding: 00140
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor
Controller: 6Q0 951 171
Component: Innenraumueberw. 0018
No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error ocurred

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.
Controller: 6Q0 959 433 E
Component: 28 Komfortgerát 0001
Coding: 00064
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Controller: 6N0 035 186 B
Component: Radio BNO 0006
Coding: 06401
Shop #: WSC 00788
No fault code found.

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Uwe@Ross-Tech

Check the Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater circuit.

Disconnect the sensor and measure the heater element's resistance.

Start the engine and check for voltage going to pins that would connect to the heater..

-Uwe-

bigad

Thanks.....guess i'll have to locate the sensor then, and follow the cable

Any idea which wires/pins to probe. This is i believe a 5-wire sensor, so I have been looking at this; Lambda Sensors diagnostic advice fault finding and symptoms
Which seems to suggest its not easy to test wideband sensors.

If it helps this is the connector diagram from LambdaPower

So when I probe the heater circuit, what resistance am I looking for?
And for the voltage with the o2 sensor disconnected, am I looking for 12v?
I think it might be difficult to do because its an intermittent fault. Can I log the heater circuit voltage within Vag-Com? I think that would be the most conclusive way, as you can feel the car struggle just before the CEL comes on - a log would show the dip in voltage when the problem arises.

There isn't any danger of damaging anything with running the engine with the o2 sensor disconnected is there?

Uwe@Ross-Tech

I don't have details on the BBY engine, but...

The sensor heater will get 12V and it will probably be pulsed on and off. Take a look at what you see in Measuring Blocks, group 040. It should have the heater status (On or Off) and a calculated resistance:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/030-049.html

There shouldn't be any danger in running the engine at idle for short periods with the oxygen sensor disconnected. However, I would not advise and hour-long full-throttle runs down the autobahn that way..:-)

-Uwe-

MathiasS

I have a similar problem on a Skoda Fabia....

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/fabia...problem/67259/

Looking at group 040, if the field for the resistance is left blank, how should that be interpreted? There is a value for B1S2, but not for B1S1.

Br,
MathiasS

Theresias

Check the AGR valve and see if there are metal chips in it.

__________________
Sebastian

MathiasS

EGR?

Theresias

Yep, EGR (AGR is the German term).

__________________
Sebastian

bigad

I've looked at group 040 - nothing, because its a 1 bank system (i think) - so I should have looked at 041; I'll have to try again tomorrow.

The fault recurred this morning too - same fault codes logged;
17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction
P1196 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000
Together with the same spurious HVAC codes;
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent
01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)
28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

- which has me baffled.......

Lummox

Sounds like you need a pre cat lambda probe and try resetting the A/C flap motors in basic settings. (procedure is on here).

__________________
www.unit18.co.uk
Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

bigad

Got one, £90 from a local place - VW wanted a lot more. Just trying to work out if it is definitely this because its not cheap! If I decide that it is then it will be fitted, otherwise its going back. Its managing about 4 days between CEL resets.

Why would A/C flap motors cause a fault only when this other fault occurs?????
It seems to me that whatever problem the o2 sensor is causing its having a knock on effect on the A/C electrics - but why would that be?
I may try resetting them anyway - just for fun

Lummox

It wont have an effect, it has nothing to do with them. However if the fault isnt sorted with the flap motors as soon as you cycle the ignition the problem will come back.

__________________
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Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

bigad

codes cleared - ignition cycled - autoscan = no codes found

The two sets of faults seem to happen together.

Lummox

Cant see why, the systems arent connected in that way. But either way both fault codes are common in thier own right and easy to sort out.

__________________
www.unit18.co.uk
Remapping Service now available, PM for details.

bigad

I managed to do a very short log of block 041 plus a couple of others.

Started off with engine off, started engine and idled for a couple of minutes. Resistance of pre cat sensor seems a bit strange (resistance jumps up then comes back down, and its a lot different to the post cat sensor). Any comments?? Does pre-cat lambda probe look like it's defective?

Bigad

Attached Files

Lambda log.zip (2.7 KB, 7 views)