130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon

Paulos19 · 30-03-2006, 22:54

Hi there everyone, my mate has just got a 55reg old shape Leon FR which has the same 1.9tdi PD engine as the Fabia VRs but produces 150 BHP.
Having read many threads on here and other forms i can see that almost 80% of people say that the standard Fabia VRs is between 140-150 BHP.
Are there any differences between the FR engine and the VRs or have SKoda told a few porkies to keep the insurance group down and keep sales up?????

EddyH · 30-03-2006, 22:57

Different turbo and injectors are the major differences. Also don't believe everything you read re: power outputs.

Paulos19 · 30-03-2006, 22:58

so you think the VRs is 130BHP?

SkodaLover · 30-03-2006, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulos19

Hi there everyone, my mate has just got a 55reg old shape Leon FR which has the same 1.9tdi PD engine as the Fabia VRs but produces 150 BHP.
Having read many threads on here and other forms i can see that almost 80% of people say that the standard Fabia VRs is between 140-150 BHP.
Are there any differences between the FR engine and the VRs or have SKoda told a few porkies to keep the insurance group down and keep sales up?????

There are many believers (I am one) that the fabia produces more power than the book says it does (IMO 135-140bhp), however by the same token the leon would too (155-160bhp)!

Chris

Paulos19 · 30-03-2006, 23:04

Just curious really, its pretty confusing and annoying when you see all sorts of different quotes floating about around the place!!

Roll on saturday when i pick up my 06 VRs Venom!!

navarino · 30-03-2006, 23:32

I doubt you'll be disappointed, having sold my vRS which I regret I have found the Leon I replaced it with is not nearly as well put together as the Fabia. Mines not the Cupra tdi but a 110 tdi and while it handles slightly better than the vRS (has same suspension as Cupra tdi) it just does not feel like the Spaniards (or Belgians) have quite the same pride in their work. The smaller turbo on the Fabia 'spools up' quicker than that of the Cupra and being a smaller car gives equivalent performance except cupra has slightly higher top speed. Theres very little turbo lag in the Fabia - it responds almost like a petrol car does.In gear acceleration though is better in the Fabia - you'd need more gear changes in the Leon to acheive the same acceleration. In the Fabia you can put your foot down in forth at thirty and....well i'll let you find out for yourself.

BeezerDiesel · 31-03-2006, 05:49

The main difference between the 130 in the Fabia and the 150 in the Leon is not the turbo as most people think, rather the front mount intercooler. The air having to be routed through the FMIC causes a bit of turbo lag in the 150 but gives it a better top end and is less prone to heat soak during a good thrashing. The torque figues are quite similar between the two cars as is the kerb weight so in gear performance will be similar.
Without getting all anal, basically the Leon FR will have a better top end and the Fabia will be a bit more flexible at lower revs. Both will remap well and the gap may narrow a bit after mapping, but the FMIC on the 150 will give better headline figures and wont suffer heat as much.

HellFire · 31-03-2006, 09:11

The Fabia does have 130 bhp, please I advise everyone to look at the JBS RR day where not 1 vRS got more than 133 bhp.

FACT.

The Leon FR will remap better, a genuine 200 bhp and not a genuine 170-180 bhp in the Fabia.

ScoobyChris · 31-03-2006, 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellFire

The Fabia does have 130 bhp, please I advise everyone to look at the JBS RR day where not 1 vRS got more than 133 bhp.

FACT.

Next you'll be telling me all the 130bhp TDCI Mondeos are only 130bhp

Ooops wrong forums

Chris

HellFire · 31-03-2006, 10:01

They are actually 128 bhp (130PS).

Mine produces 129 bhp standard, and with a dragon tuning box (digital) on the max setting (returned it to dragon a few times to max the available settings out) produced 170 bhp before going into limp mode moments later. It did run 160 bhp no probs though

SteVRs · 31-03-2006, 10:10

I drove one a week ago and thought it no quicker than the Furby - handled much better though. Turbo lag was much more intrusive though - didn't like it at all

In it's defense it had only done 5800 miles and mine was on 20k so it might not have been properly broken in.

HellFire · 31-03-2006, 10:26

It's bigger, has better tuning potential, it' just as quick and quicker up top (especially when heat soak kicks in on the vRS), handles better. But costs ££££ more, is it worth it?

As my next car

, however I would still sway towards a new Golf GTi or Focus ST.

Tigger_1979 · 31-03-2006, 10:27

mine got 136bhp @ the wheels
but I had been using Ultimate Deisel for all except 1 tank full for 6months

If I goto the same place and test it
I feel it most probably will have dropped back down to what would be expected

ScoobyChris · 31-03-2006, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigger_1979

mine got 136bhp @ the wheels

Chris

Tigger_1979 · 31-03-2006, 10:39

so either my car has a special engine or the ultimate deisel does affect it

and all the standard Octy's where getting readings of around 160BHP@ the wheels
I don't remember any car from that day at the rolling road who got over what they where expecting
next time I go there Im going to try and run standard crappy diesel for a few weeks before and then I can see proper figures

Come on Jason when you organising that meet again

HellFire · 31-03-2006, 11:40

[stupid mode]What should the flywheel power of the vRS be?[/stupid mode]

SteVRs · 31-03-2006, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellFire

[stupid mode]What should the flywheel power of the vRS be?[/stupid mode]

128bhp.

ScoobyChris · 31-03-2006, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by HellFire

[stupid mode]What should the flywheel power of the vRS be?[/stupid mode]

130bhp for the Fabia and 180bhp for the Octy.... (according to the Skoda site)

Chris

HellFire · 31-03-2006, 12:20

So that makes the wheel power (technically)?

SteVRs · 31-03-2006, 12:26

You'd expect at least 10-15% losses before it gets to whe wheels.

HellFire · 31-03-2006, 12:48

So that means Tigger_1979 who got 136bhp @ the wheels has a flywheel power of either 149.6bhp (10%) or 156.4bhp (15%) !!

This is 26.4 bhp over the manufacturers claimed output of 130 bhp. No offence but I think you used an optimistic rolling road, either that or just made a mistake and put rocket fuel in your car not ultimate diesel

Tigger_1979 · 31-03-2006, 13:18

the rolling road was producing trustworthy figures there was loads of us at the meet and all other cars where hitting there predicted figures or just under

I think my reading of 136@ wheels was down to a combination of factors

Fuchs fully sync oil
26k miles on clock
ultimate Deisel
ranting the F**k (redline the car abit, through my driving style)
(supposed to be good for a deisel)
also I got Goodyear eagle F1 tyres
which would mean it would grip the rollers better (maybe transfer more from the engine)
I also warmed the car up nicely and for ages before if that affects the results

ScoobyChris · 31-03-2006, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigger_1979

the rolling road was producing trustworthy figures there was loads of us at the meet and all other cars where hitting there predicted figures or just under

Get the car on JBS's rollers and lets see what it makes there

Chris

Tigger_1979 · 31-03-2006, 13:23

I'm going back soon (if Jason organises the meet again)
but this time I will not have any ultimate deisel in the car as the BP garage has been taken over by Tescos
so I will of had a good 6 months to a year with maybe 1 or 2 tanks of ultimate deisel in the car
maybe a nice little test for ultimate deisel

SteVRs · 31-03-2006, 13:26

Most rolling roads take these losses into account by testing resistance too - not massively accurate but a reasonable indication.

Without taking the engine out and running it on a bench you'll never know. It is worth bearing in mind that the 128bhp quoted by Skoda (130ps) is their figure of what an engine built within tolerances will produce at the very LEAST, it would be neither impossible nor particularly improbable for a well maintained, broken in example running higher grade fuel to be producing 10% more IMHO.

30-03-2006, 22:54	#1
Paulos19 Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Whitehaven Posts: 54 Members Car: VRs Venom, Black Magic, Tinted Windows, Official Skoda Leather seats! Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon Hi there everyone, my mate has just got a 55reg old shape Leon FR which has the same 1.9tdi PD engine as the Fabia VRs but produces 150 BHP. Having read many threads on here and other forms i can see that almost 80% of people say that the standard Fabia VRs is between 140-150 BHP. Are there any differences between the FR engine and the VRs or have SKoda told a few porkies to keep the insurance group down and keep sales up?????

30-03-2006, 22:57	#2
EddyH Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 4,839 Members Car: Audi A6 Thanks: 36 Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon Different turbo and injectors are the major differences. Also don't believe everything you read re: power outputs. __________________ EddyH Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDI Audi A3 2.0 TDI Sport

30-03-2006, 22:58	#3
Paulos19 Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Whitehaven Posts: 54 Members Car: VRs Venom, Black Magic, Tinted Windows, Official Skoda Leather seats! Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon so you think the VRs is 130BHP?

30-03-2006, 23:04	#5
Paulos19 Briskodian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Whitehaven Posts: 54 Members Car: VRs Venom, Black Magic, Tinted Windows, Official Skoda Leather seats! Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon Just curious really, its pretty confusing and annoying when you see all sorts of different quotes floating about around the place!! Roll on saturday when i pick up my 06 VRs Venom!!

30-03-2006, 23:32	#6
navarino To be Confirmed Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: East Cowes, Isle of Wight Posts: 118 Members Car: BMW 320td Sport Compact Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon I doubt you'll be disappointed, having sold my vRS which I regret I have found the Leon I replaced it with is not nearly as well put together as the Fabia. Mines not the Cupra tdi but a 110 tdi and while it handles slightly better than the vRS (has same suspension as Cupra tdi) it just does not feel like the Spaniards (or Belgians) have quite the same pride in their work. The smaller turbo on the Fabia 'spools up' quicker than that of the Cupra and being a smaller car gives equivalent performance except cupra has slightly higher top speed. Theres very little turbo lag in the Fabia - it responds almost like a petrol car does.In gear acceleration though is better in the Fabia - you'd need more gear changes in the Leon to acheive the same acceleration. In the Fabia you can put your foot down in forth at thirty and....well i'll let you find out for yourself.

31-03-2006, 05:49	#7
BeezerDiesel Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Exeter Posts: 545 Members Car: Golf GTI Thanks: 24 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon The main difference between the 130 in the Fabia and the 150 in the Leon is not the turbo as most people think, rather the front mount intercooler. The air having to be routed through the FMIC causes a bit of turbo lag in the 150 but gives it a better top end and is less prone to heat soak during a good thrashing. The torque figues are quite similar between the two cars as is the kerb weight so in gear performance will be similar. Without getting all anal, basically the Leon FR will have a better top end and the Fabia will be a bit more flexible at lower revs. Both will remap well and the gap may narrow a bit after mapping, but the FMIC on the 150 will give better headline figures and wont suffer heat as much. __________________ Andy 05 Golf GTI Fabia vRS long gone but not forgotten.

31-03-2006, 09:11	#8
HellFire Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 3,174 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon The Fabia does have 130 bhp, please I advise everyone to look at the JBS RR day where not 1 vRS got more than 133 bhp. FACT. The Leon FR will remap better, a genuine 200 bhp and not a genuine 170-180 bhp in the Fabia. __________________ Metro Blue '06' 5 Door Astra 1.8 SRi

31-03-2006, 10:01	#10
HellFire Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 3,174 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon They are actually 128 bhp (130PS). Mine produces 129 bhp standard, and with a dragon tuning box (digital) on the max setting (returned it to dragon a few times to max the available settings out) produced 170 bhp before going into limp mode moments later. It did run 160 bhp no probs though __________________ Metro Blue '06' 5 Door Astra 1.8 SRi Last edited by HellFire; 31-03-2006 at 10:09.

31-03-2006, 10:10	#11
SteVRs Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 3,065 Members Car: Smart Roadster Coupe Brabus Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon I drove one a week ago and thought it no quicker than the Furby - handled much better though. Turbo lag was much more intrusive though - didn't like it at all In it's defense it had only done 5800 miles and mine was on 20k so it might not have been properly broken in. __________________ Engined bike. Engined car. Neither a Skoda - been there, done that

31-03-2006, 10:26	#12
HellFire Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 3,174 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon It's bigger, has better tuning potential, it' just as quick and quicker up top (especially when heat soak kicks in on the vRS), handles better. But costs ££££ more, is it worth it? As my next car , however I would still sway towards a new Golf GTi or Focus ST. __________________ Metro Blue '06' 5 Door Astra 1.8 SRi

31-03-2006, 10:27	#13
Tigger_1979 Briskodian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yate, Bristol, South West Posts: 1,860 Members Car: Standard Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon mine got 136bhp @ the wheels but I had been using Ultimate Deisel for all except 1 tank full for 6months If I goto the same place and test it I feel it most probably will have dropped back down to what would be expected __________________ WSM Sat 1st November 2008

31-03-2006, 10:39	#15
Tigger_1979 Briskodian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yate, Bristol, South West Posts: 1,860 Members Car: Standard Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon so either my car has a special engine or the ultimate deisel does affect it and all the standard Octy's where getting readings of around 160BHP@ the wheels I don't remember any car from that day at the rolling road who got over what they where expecting next time I go there Im going to try and run standard crappy diesel for a few weeks before and then I can see proper figures Come on Jason when you organising that meet again __________________ WSM Sat 1st November 2008

31-03-2006, 11:40	#16
HellFire Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 3,174 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon [stupid mode]What should the flywheel power of the vRS be?[/stupid mode] __________________ Metro Blue '06' 5 Door Astra 1.8 SRi

31-03-2006, 12:20	#19
HellFire Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 3,174 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon So that makes the wheel power (technically)? __________________ Metro Blue '06' 5 Door Astra 1.8 SRi

31-03-2006, 12:26	#20
SteVRs Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 3,065 Members Car: Smart Roadster Coupe Brabus Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon You'd expect at least 10-15% losses before it gets to whe wheels. __________________ Engined bike. Engined car. Neither a Skoda - been there, done that

31-03-2006, 12:48	#21
HellFire Briskodian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire Posts: 3,174 Members Car: Skoda Fabia vRS Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon So that means Tigger_1979 who got 136bhp @ the wheels has a flywheel power of either 149.6bhp (10%) or 156.4bhp (15%) !! This is 26.4 bhp over the manufacturers claimed output of 130 bhp. No offence but I think you used an optimistic rolling road, either that or just made a mistake and put rocket fuel in your car not ultimate diesel __________________ Metro Blue '06' 5 Door Astra 1.8 SRi

31-03-2006, 13:18	#22
Tigger_1979 Briskodian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yate, Bristol, South West Posts: 1,860 Members Car: Standard Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon the rolling road was producing trustworthy figures there was loads of us at the meet and all other cars where hitting there predicted figures or just under I think my reading of 136@ wheels was down to a combination of factors Fuchs fully sync oil 26k miles on clock ultimate Deisel ranting the Fk (redline the car abit, through my driving style) (supposed to be good for a deisel) also I got Goodyear eagle F1 tyres which would mean it would grip the rollers better (maybe transfer more from the engine) I also warmed the car up nicely and for ages before if that affects the results __________________ WSM Sat 1st November 2008** Last edited by Tigger_1979; 31-03-2006 at 13:20.

31-03-2006, 13:23	#24
Tigger_1979 Briskodian Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yate, Bristol, South West Posts: 1,860 Members Car: Standard Yellow Fabia vRS Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon I'm going back soon (if Jason organises the meet again) but this time I will not have any ultimate deisel in the car as the BP garage has been taken over by Tescos so I will of had a good 6 months to a year with maybe 1 or 2 tanks of ultimate deisel in the car maybe a nice little test for ultimate deisel __________________ WSM Sat 1st November 2008

31-03-2006, 13:26	#25
SteVRs Briskodian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 3,065 Members Car: Smart Roadster Coupe Brabus Thanks: 4 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Re: 130BHP VRs + 150BHP FR Leon Most rolling roads take these losses into account by testing resistance too - not massively accurate but a reasonable indication. Without taking the engine out and running it on a bench you'll never know. It is worth bearing in mind that the 128bhp quoted by Skoda (130ps) is their figure of what an engine built within tolerances will produce at the very LEAST, it would be neither impossible nor particularly improbable for a well maintained, broken in example running higher grade fuel to be producing 10% more IMHO. __________________ Engined bike. Engined car. Neither a Skoda - been there, done that Last edited by SteVRs; 31-03-2006 at 13:27.

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