skomaz

Interesting point - yes some peple are in a dire situation but I would imagine that thos people would not be considering buying a new car! - Please do not generalise and assume that they are all stupid and will go out and get themselves in an even worse situation.

You seem to have a very black and white view of society and mos things so I would suggest that you re-read and re-think some of what you said otherwise you risk making a complete fool of yourself (if you have not already).

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If everything was as reliable as a VW... My Skoda would be at the bottom of the JD Power tables!

Octavia II 2.0 TDi 4x4 Estate and Fabia I 1.9 TDi Estate and Modified Mk1 Mazda MX-5 1.8iS

ap0gee

I don't think I'm the only one who wouldn't even entertain buying a car second-hand that hadn't be privately-owned up to the time of sale. The only possible exception I might consider would be ex-police, but considering the thrashing hire-cars / company cars get, along with the bare-minimum servicing they receive, I really wouldn't want to risk it...

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ScoobyChris

Imhe, fleet cars are some of the best serviced cars and these tend to be the ones I look at as a 2nd hand buy. Hire cars are a bit more interesting but they tend to be got rid of a lot younger so still have the balance of manufacturer warranty which could help to sort out any niggles. Not sure about police cars though - I think the condition of these does vary quite a lot depending on the role that they've had.

Chris

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Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

Welshy

IIRC ave personal debt (not mortgage) is £16k per person! And from what a number of people have been saying on here is they wouldnt be able to afford to pay cash for it - i.e. I stated that most people would have £5-6k cash however was put down by OP who said thats totally not the case therefore most people will be buying their next car on the juice.

In the States hardly any new cars are sold which are not financed - I fear the day when that happens in the UK the want it now & have it now attitude is what is causing the problems in the economy.

Also if you think its bad currently then fasten that seatbelt as things are going to get really bad & then your going to have people really struggling to pay for the car they didnt really need as their old one was perfectly reliable and they hadnt had a change of circumstance which resulted in needing a bigger /different car.


The Black is that the USA as per Morgan Stanley is in recession, inflation in the Euro Zone is 3.1% confidence in the UK is dire, house prices globally are taking a tumble and clearly that will mean many will be in negative equity. Even for those who are notin that situation its terrible news as equity will decrease (see last year) and that impacts everyone who has any kind of pension or equity investments. The shrewd amongst us will have mocved into defensive stock and Gold. Also as there will be job losses those who are not directly impacted could be in the future by job losses and the job market/vacancies has decreased markedly.

So come on take off those rose inted glasses it might not sound too nice but it could save a few people from getting into trouble - which I hope youd support.

Welshy

Disagree here - most company car drivers have the option at the end of the term to buy the car at vastly less than the market value some do and keep it for themselves some buy it for friends.
Every company I have worked for milage has to be submitted via the intranet monthly and this corresponds with servicing. It is carried out on time as if not when they come to sell they get much less for the car.

Also you say the thrahing a company car gets - well firstly that could be equally true of a private car and to generalise the whole UK company car drives as that is misguided - sure some do some dont some in the middle. Remember also that any car repairs/additional damage/speeding fines are picked up by the cost centre which that persons line manager will be monitoring and this could lead to a disciplinary.

Another thing comp car drivers on average over 3 years will have clocked up near on 100k now to get the milage that high in such a short period of time means a lot of M way miles which is high gear and relatively low revs = barely any wear.

Another thing is you cannot modify a company car in anyway whereas a private car could have been chipped and thrashed to an inch of its life day in day out yet have it removed come sale and buyer has no idea.

Welshy

Exactly, also think if your a company car driver and something is wrong with the car you will want it fixed as your paying tax to run the car you want it right.

Also Tyres on Company cars are changed when they have 4mm left not 1.7-2mm - everything like that incl pads/discs are changed more frequently than you would think as basically the company want the employee to be firstly 100% safe in the car and secondly the car has to be 100% reliable as the driver could miss meetings etc due to an unreliable car hence its not financially worth it not to.

Finally here we pay £60-80pcm for a full maintence package so everything is included servicing parts labour tyres etc. As its being paid for seems odd to think why youd pay for something and not use it (if not using it there is an efficiency to take advantage of)

ap0gee

The problem with that, though, (as testified by the sorry state my 'properly'-serviced Renault was in when I sold it after 2.5 years) is that the 20k+ / 2 years+ service intervals that manufacturers now specify to meet fleet requirements are really far too long, and no matter how good the oil is, there is wear on other parts like brakes that won't be detected until way too late

Next time you see a car doing 100 in the outside lane, look to see what it is - I bet you it'll be a company Mondeo / Vectra / 3-series. As for hirecars, I know from experience that they get driven flat-out from 0 miles, often for hundreds of miles at a time without stopping - not good for longevity!

This is true - a high-mileage / low-age car would be a better bet than a low-mileage / high-age car, but then as I say earlier, if a car had only been serviced three or four times over that period, I'd be really concerned about its mechanical condition...

That assumes most second-hand buyers are in the market for something that's likely to have been modified - I really don't think my wife's third-hand Fabia 1.4 MPi has been modified in any way...

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skomaz

Welshy - No rose tinted glasses here and I don;t disagree with any of the comments regarding the future economic situation or the fact that t would be noce to save people from getting further into trouble.

What I do object to (and I'm sure many other would as well - expecially those who are currently in the type of bad debt situation you describe) is the inference from your comments that all those in that situation are so stupid that they will not think things through adequately before considering the pros and cons of car purcahse, be that new or used!

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If everything was as reliable as a VW... My Skoda would be at the bottom of the JD Power tables!

Octavia II 2.0 TDi 4x4 Estate and Fabia I 1.9 TDi Estate and Modified Mk1 Mazda MX-5 1.8iS

Welshy

1 Brakes pads & discs will last 60k min usually but if you can wear out a set of pads & discs in under 20k then that is a real concern.

2 Talking about the M4 geneally those trying to go very fast from what I see are the 535d's Boxters yes of course the general comp cars then Focus you even see little city cars Ka's trying to do 100mph. The thing is though given your buying a diesel in 6th gear your only really reving at about 3000 odd rpm with up to 2000rpm remaining its hardly damagng the engine if it was done in say 4th gear at the limiter then yes of course. Another thing many comp car drivers do spec auto boxes so unless those have been sat in traffic (which is where wear occurs in Autos then again no engine wear issue).

The other thing is that the German cars are designed to be driven on the Autobhan and the german drivers do drive their cars as fast as they will go for hour after hour given a clear road.

3 Hire cars are totally different to company cars and I would tend to assume that they are driven harder than most cars but then again as they change them every year you have 2 years warranty left to fix any issues & get a Hyundai its 5 years or a Kia 7 years on the Ceed.

4 Manufacturers servicing schedules are set out based upon tolerances of parts if one of their cars can travel 20k between each and every service then so be it. Remember for brake pads they have a wire within them which if the pads do wear down will show as a light on the dash (brake).

A friend of mine travels 70-80k a year and has roughly 6 services every year - he needs the car to be safe and reliable also when he goes in for a service at the same dealer they advise on parts which need attention or may do in the fuure and they advise on expected remaining part life - but as the car is fully paid for by a maintence contract he usually gets said part changed there and then. Remember he has to have his car off the road 6 days min a year which means he cannot be out visiting clients and missing out on potential sales therefore any breakdowns in addition to those are just unacceptable to him. And anyon else who is in a similar situation just wouldnt stand for an unreliable & non safe car.

It does seem odd to suggest that someone driving a comp car wouldnt have safety parts replaced to cut corners (which is paying for anyway)

monkey023

Hey Guys.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter of new vs used. Personally, I will go for new every time if I can afford to do so, but I will never risk getting into debt to do this. I would love a Skoda Octavia vRS but I can't justify the vast expense, so instead will be getting a new Fabia Sport at some point.
When chosing new or old, it is entirely down to personal preference so I will not criticise anyones' point of view on this thread.

What I will say though is that we have gone TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.

Mark

Welshy

You may think that but a nice shiney new car in the showroom with a perky salesman there its all too easy to get into a new car, after all thats their job.

The other day on pistonheads one sales man admitted to selling a car on Juice which was an overstretch he admitted and this may or may not have lead to 3 months later that person going bankrupt. If all checks had been done correctly then a new car should never have been considered - but there you go.

For the people in this sort of debt position should 100% not be changing their car and in an upgrade situation I mean if they downgrade and buy a cheaper used car (get cash out of their current cars) then thats good.

If you cannot afford to pay for the car then dont buy it - spend say £1k on a very used car and run it for a few years no debt on it (or at least it shouldnt take long to pay it off) and then save up gradually and when the time comes if you really do want a new car pay cash or by that time you may think hold on I could buy another older car lose effectively nothing even if it is more costly to run/repair at least Im saving a fortune on the biggest car cost depreciation.

In VW GT TDI140 that was up for £19k with options and trade value/part x in 3 years time was quoted to be about £8k so I said hold on thats £11k in 3 years or £305pcm and it didnt seem to worry the salesman at all. That attitude is very wrong thats a huge amount for anyone to lose I know Id much rather have bought a 3 year old example and losemaybe 20-30% of that much £75pcm and then potentially have 1 night a month in the hilton or have 4 nice meals out a month every month for 36 months for no difference or better still spend £2.7k on my summer hols Im sure the 5 star hotel Id go to would certainly be wroth more than the nice feeling of buying a new car.

Welshy

Excellent - this is what I mean this person desires the Octavia vRS however its out of his affordability (to pay cash) so he/she is buying something they can for cash no debt.

Now if say you really want the Fabia Sport for £13-14k yet only have £3-5k then dont buy the new car buy a £3-5k car instead no debt to worry about and you can use the saved money from the finance to pay for any additional servicing.

ap0gee

Oh, I really can't be bothered with this! It's gone so far off-topic! I admit that not every leased / rented car will be badly looked-after, but seeing how so many of them end up at car supermarkets with a 'maintenance printout' rather than a properly-filled service schedule, they're not an attractive proposition to me personally. If you see it differently, that's fine. But to blame the economic situation on people's desire to change their car from time-to-time is crazy (and in my opinion, the state of the economy has as much to do with the self-fulfilling prophecies of doom-sayers such as yourself as anything else...)

To point you in the direction of the OP, woodenspatula's just bought a new car that he's very happy about - can you not just be pleased for him? If you want a debate on the perils of a capitalist / consumer / credit society, would you mind starting another thread somewhere more appropriate like Off-Topic Chit-Chat if you're doing it for the banter factor or the Roadside Hotel if you're wanting a genuine debate?

TIA!

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skomaz

Welshy you've missed my point again and flipped back onto figures and comparative costs etc!

Forget it I can't be bothered to try and point out the poor nature of your comments anymore.

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If everything was as reliable as a VW... My Skoda would be at the bottom of the JD Power tables!

Octavia II 2.0 TDi 4x4 Estate and Fabia I 1.9 TDi Estate and Modified Mk1 Mazda MX-5 1.8iS

Welshy

Ive posted in the Roadside hotel so we can debate properly there.

To the other OP frankly if someone buys a car or not why on earth would I be happy or not happy for them? I effects me in no way what so ever and likewise you.
Its the same as saying look at the person on the m way oh he has a nice new car I feel really happy for him - not at all I have no interest.

This thread is about the Fabia sport which is to be reviewed in the Autocar this or next week. My debate has been its a city car ditto the Ibiza so why pay 30% more on a run of the mill car? When you can have more or less the same identical car for 30% less.

The issue wih buying on the Juice well common sense really I'd assume that in general most buyers of this car are young under 30 probably nearer 25ave age , most people these days (well ver 50% anyway) go to Uni and come out with up to £30k debt them buying a brand new car for £13-14k taking them to not far off £50k debt is very worring. Once they clear that debt lets say they clear it in 10 years they may have got married (ave cost £17k) bought a house ave cost £200k or may be forced to buy a lesser house than they could have had due to want it now attitude.

On the flip side of the coin the more people who refuse to buy older cars will mean their market value drops further and people like me can get some real bargins due to this - so thanks in a way!

OctaviaT81

To get this thread back on topic, Autoexpress tested the new Fabia Sport in 1.9TDI guise: Skoda Fabia Sport | First Drives | Car Reviews | Auto Express

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Skoda Motorsport & other rally news

Mox

post deleted to stay on topic

ScoobyChris

I don't think he's bought it - he works at a dealership and they've just got a new one in that he is sharing photos of. I think the wooden one drives a Roomster?

Chris

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Holding up the traffic in a little Italian..........

mdk1

Yes he does, but it's normally dirty

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Mike.

Mine Skoda Roomster 3 TDI in matallic Anthracite Grey MK**LJK

Swmbo's Skoda Fabia 2.0i Elegance in Dark matallic Blue MK**LJK

Welshy

Noone in this thread has bought the car just OP who works in a dealership is stating that he has one on order for the showroom & one currently in the showroom.

Not sure therefore why I should be happy for the new car owner as as yet noone has bought the thing and stated on here to that fact.

oilburninnut

welcome back welshy

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Gary
www.dogboxmedia.co.uk

monkey023

Just to let u guys know. I have just test driven the 1.9tdi fabia sport! What a great car it is. The seats are really nice, you feel moulded to them, the leather steering wheel is comfortable as well. It looks good with the front and rear spoilers as well as the chrome exhaust addition.
The engine had only done 200 miles so was virtually new and not at all run in, but it was clear to tell it had some poke and with a little Superchips Bluefin added in to the equation, one would really start to have some fun!! Surprisingly for a tdi, the engine noise was minimal, especially when up to speed and temperature, no more noisy than a 1.4 16v petrol version. Skoda have done a great job sound proofing the engine on this new fabia.

So the result was that I have ordered one, straight after returning from the test!

Regards,

Mark

sharkrider

would you mind me asking how much it's going to cost you?

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Fiat Grande Punto Sporting (158 bhp 314 lbs/ft) in Red....

Furby vRS , black magic,passenger airbag de-activation switch, (now gone, but not forgotten!)