rewsy

Got a rally felicia that I just didmy first event in (on tarmac) and looks like I need a tad more power, currently in Group N spec so no engine mods at all so runnin g abot 68 bhp, would like to get perhaps another 20 or so, any recommendations?

KenONeill

Not what you're going to want to hear, but IIRC you'll need to go to Gp A spec to get that much extra power, given that you'll not be allowed to modify components other than remapping the ECU and replacing the exhaust.

TeflonTom

i thought you were allowed to use any oe part??

KenONeill

AIUI it's any unmodified OE part. So you couldn't, say, port the head under Gp N rules.

TeflonTom

hmm, there's not an awefull lot you can do to it then... except maybe alter the gear ratios using oe gears

KenONeill

You can blueprint, but frankly it would be cheaper to go to Gp A rules, when you can start porting, and use things like non-stock pistons rather than buy 100 sets, and look for 4 the same (lightest) mass.

rewsy

Sorry didn't make myself clear, it is in Grp N spec, but wanted to modify it (i.e: no issue to keep within in Grp N rules)out of that, but with limited budget was wondering to begin with easiest and cheapest options to get extra 20 or so bhp, few suggestions was obviously air filter/exhaust mods, perhaps use throttle bodies or set of webers replaing the injection systems - any other suggestions and perhaps recommendations as to suppliers/location of parts?

TeflonTom

what's your budget??

KenONeill

And what, if any, championship restrictions on engine mods (other than capacity classes) are you running to then? Doing the work yourself, with internals, new cam, new exhaust and twin Webers, something like 120bhp is possible for about £2_000. I'd need to check exactly how, but other than inlet and exhaust systems, it's basically a Gp A engine.

pinkskud

what about the old arb swop, the caddy 22mm arb actualy has a skoda part no under the vw sticker. but it was never put on the felicia as a factory fit?

richardsfavorit

Can you lighten it up at all? I have seen a Felicia with a lot of metal work taken off the underneath at the back - Made it a few hundred kilos lighter!

KenONeill

Good point. If it gets to "removing sound deadening" it can be a nasty sticky sort of a job, but "adding lightness" improves the brakes and cornering as well as the acceleration!

TeflonTom

yes you can remove a lot of excess stuff from a felicia, but it will no longer be group n spec

KenONeill

AIUI we don't actually have a requirement to keep to Gp N spec. In which case removing weight is the cheapest and most reliable way of improving performance.

ugluk

The 1.3 skoda engine is good for 90hp in group N form, The secret is in the correct map and higher flow injectors and a well designed exhaust system I had some long debates with the builder of your exhaust system about exhaust theory, He believed bigger was better full stop I believed optimised to engine flow was better.

I had a SMS ECU on my car that cost about £1500 allegedly when the skoda trophy was running, finding something like that is going to be next to impossible . Whenever we had it on the rolling road the operator would comment on how perfectly set up it was.

You are allowed or at least certainly were allowed to change injectors fuel pumps and fuel maps within group N regs.

Modifying injection stuff is a little more difficult than carb stuff, replaceing with throttle bodies costs a LOT of money. Bike carbs are a common mod, I believe there was someone called bogg brothers or something who done a good bike carb to suit service for cheaper prices than throttlebodies. I would really say a cam and new fuelling and making sure youve got a suitable exhaust will see some good returns but even with bike carbs you probably arent looking at under a grand .

Now in the days of carbs Its be a compatible bigger carb for £30 from the scrappy, a new cam and a home made exhaust and off you got for £200 .

TeflonTom

if you decide to go over to using an aftermarket ecu like the emerald i would be happy to make up the loom for you

so long as you join freedom

KenONeill

Ugluk, similar power was possible with the Skoda engine using a single carb under Gp A regs; Further manifold and system work (obviously) and twin 40s could boost output to my quoted 120bhp, still on the standard (pooshrod engine) 7_000rpm limit before you started bending pushrods (as John Haugland once did following an over-rev due to a spin, then won the class anyway, using a replacement from a scrappie).

So, as I said yesterday, we need to know if there are any championship-based restrictions on engine spec.

ugluk

Yep we need to know what the champiosnhip regs are, Im guessing hes planning on going group B9 though, its going to be more difficult to compete in class there than in group N you will be quicker on the stage in a group B9 car but possibly slower in class.

I could still compete with later group N cars in my stock engined carb powered favorit due to the older model being so light and nimble. I can keep pace with Group N cars with double the power to weight ratio! But up against some of the group B9 stuff I think I'd struggle even with significantly more power.

Ive heard some pretty scary figures out of some of those B9 guys - 190hp out of a 1400 engine with a car weighing at around 750kg was the last I heard! Id far rather stick it out amongst the group N pug 106's.

When you say 120hp out of the standard pushrod engine, certainly with the stock bottom end you can get 120, but to get more than 90ish out of it you need to do a lot with the cam and head, as well as fuelling manifold and exhaust. Ive heard from a UK based skoda engine builder that he reckons the stock crank and rods are good for about 8000rpm, not sure I would want to push them that far regularly.

The problem with the felicia MPI is that theres a lot of wiring you need to gut out and completely replace to return to a traditional carb and dizzy setup. Theres all that immobiliser rubbish and setting up new control etc for the fuel pump wiring in your new ignition system etc sorting out dash lights. I know it doesnt sound a lot but it can take weeks and weeks of working evenings to do that sort of conversion as well as leading to lots of bang the head on the garage wall.

The strict international group A regs hamstrung the favorits compared to what could have been done with better fuelling valve sizes and more cam freedom, even the later 1500 felicia kit car producing circa 150hp was somewhat limited by Group A class restrictions but with a VERY clever 8 injector throttlebody setup. a privateer running group B regs could have exceeded 150hp out of that engine.

Many UK championships were far less strict about group A regs than what the works cars had to contend with.

Its always a tough choice as to what class you head for especially when the budget is limited. Group B will get you going quicker for your money, but far less chance of class wins on big championships, group N will be slowest but best chance of class performance, group A will be expensive for a felicia because most chapionships would require it to stay injection instead of going carbs.