Universal Intercoolers

[sixdegrees]

Ok, so I've seen a varying range of universal intercollers kicking about on t'interweb and Fleabay (reputable selers by all accounts) and with prices statring at only a few ££s, combined with lots of pipes and hoses I was thiking this could be an alternatove to spending £600 on the Forge FMIC.

Anyone have an experiences, knowledge or otherwise about Universal intercoolers - good, bad, indifferent?

I worked out that you can get a similar sized one with pipe work for about £200 - £250, which means the money you save could go towards other mods.

[VRStu]

Having fitted a Forge recently I would want to be completely sure of any pipework.

There isn't a whole lot of room to mess around behind there and there aren't that many mounts for it.

Have you seen the very good fitting guide on the Forge website - some goodpics will give you an idea.

[Lummox]

When you pay £600 for the Forge one ou are also paying for the development and testing of that product on your car.

Get an universal one with the wrong capacity or flow and it could be detrimental to your performance.

[VRStu]

Very good point that Ross. Too much and you'll upset the airflow and create lag, too little and you'll be worse off.

[WW_VRS]

The Forge FMIC as referred to be Stu was fitted to my car & it fits very well indeed. There are a few spots where pipework is very tight but it fits and the hoses are Samco, so quality is excellent.

When we laid out the components to do a 'dry fit' before removing the standard SMIC, we were very impressed with the quality of it, and although IIRC we got two bits of hose switched round the wrong way, that was the only minor thing we ran into that's worth mentioning.

Intercoolers are pretty complex things, get it too badly wrong and no doubt a fault code will appear etc etc.

IMHO it all depends on how adventurous you want to be - you can probably get a universal one and get it it to work & fit, in fairness, but I know the Forge one will last & fit, and considering how many bits it came in I'd say it will take you a fair bit of time to get anywhere near that quality for similar money.

If you don't mind your car being off the road for days DIY may be an option.

[sixdegrees]

Originally Posted by WW_VRS

The Forge FMIC as referred to be Stu was fitted to my car & it fits very well indeed. There are a few spots where pipework is very tight but it fits and the hoses are Samco, so quality is excellent.

When we laid out the components to do a 'dry fit' before removing the standard SMIC, we were very impressed with the quality of it, and although IIRC we got two bits of hose switched round the wrong way, that was the only minor thing we ran into that's worth mentioning.

Intercoolers are pretty complex things, get it too badly wrong and no doubt a fault code will appear etc etc.

IMHO it all depends on how adventurous you want to be - you can probably get a universal one and get it it to work & fit, in fairness, but I know the Forge one will last & fit, and considering how many bits it came in I'd say it will take you a fair bit of time to get anywhere near that quality for similar money.

If you don't mind your car being off the road for days DIY may be an option.

If I were to buy any intercooler I'd fit it myself. We have a 'garage', plenty of tools (Bruv has a motorbike / Mini MX business) and I've built a few engines / cars myself so popping on an intercooler isn't a worry, the only thing I don't know much about is the flow capacity / size required.

However, considering the difference in size between the Forge jobbie and the OEM one, surely one which is bigger than OEM and not bigger then the Forge one, with a flow capacity that is also in between would be suitable, so long as the quality was there.

I've read about certain brands of intercooler as used by many tuning enthusiasts, ie Skyline, Scoob, Evo, Audi, etc who also make universal fit intercoolers, so if their 'specific' products are good enough for these guys I'm inclined to think their universal ones will also be good enough as well.

More investigation is definitely required before I make any decision tho.

The other option I thought about was relocating the OEM IC - any thoughts on this?

[WW_VRS]

I reckon relocating the small (and boy is it small) SMIC will probably just give you more lag due to the longer pipes and relatively limited improvements.

I'd have a look at some universal ones that may be about for the type of car, pretty sure there are some seat ones that may be available as a universal fit etc.

The cheap option is to vent the SMIC better, feeding a bit more cool air to it by cutting out some slats at the front and/or removing the driver-side fog, for example. Also audi-TT-style venting in the wheel arch seems to make a good difference and if you do it in a tidy way it shouldnt cause too much grief with road crud getting in from the tyre-side.

I'd imagine with a bit of skill etc you can make one fit in front of the rad though as there is a fair bit of room, Forge does one, the Seat OEM one apparently fits too, and Allard does one as well. No clue on how much flow & volume they have , but it's likely you'll be able to find some info on that

[sixdegrees]

The only reason I'm looking at alternatives to the Forge FMIC is that I'm keen on a re-map, but as a fairly conservatove drivers (these days) I don't feel the need to invest as much as £600 for an FMIC when I doubt I'll realise the full benefit from it, where as an alternative IC that is better than the OEM but 1/2 the price of the Forge IC will probably be ample for my needs!


As for fabicating necessay bracket, custom pipe work, etc I'm sure I'll manage - have tools, have a brain and have enthusiasm )sp).

[VRStu]

IMHO the FMIC won't give you any significant gains for normal very day driving. Where it helps is in avoiding the heatsoak the the Fabia suffers from.

[sixdegrees]

Originally Posted by VRStu

IMHO the FMIC won't give you any significant gains for normal every day driving. Where it helps is in avoiding the heatsoak the the Fabia suffers from.

Precisely, which is also why I think I don't need one as big and as efficient as the Forge Motorsport one, as I don't expect to suffer as much heat soak and subsequent power loss, as a) I'll not be driving it hard, b) I live in a part of the UK that is on average 4-5 degs cooler than down south and has 1/2 as many warm days and c) I don't do that many miles.

Don't get me wrong, I think (from what I've read and heard) that the Forge FMIC is a top quality piece of kit and affordability doesn't come into it, but value for money does.



Edit: just been on the Forge Website and they have a range of Universal Intercoolers, so being Forge quality won't be an issue, and starting at £180 theres good value in there as well.

[WW_VRS]

Definitely. That said if you're mainly after avoiding heatsoak and aren't particularly worried about maximum (and I do mean maximum) performance, just venting the SMIC might be enough. Bonus of that is that it won't void warranty to cut a vent out of some plastic, unlike (any) aftermarket FMIC.

Second thing is the FMIC has more volume and as such the standard turbo has to work a fair bit harder to fill it up AND get it up to required boost. It's why I've opted for a hybrid turbo, which ain't cheap either but should be able to cope better in the long term (and for me that's worth the cash considering the list of gear that's going to be on the car over the next month(s) or so).

You can get a very nice increase in power without spending a fortune, may want to consider a tuning box as well as that doesnt increase boost so less likely to cause temperature releated fun.

[sixdegrees]

I am keen to get it remapped to about 170hp, not after MAX power, ie 185, 190, 200 like some have, but more power definitely and so a better intercooler seems like the logical thing.

Brakes, filter, suspension, ARB, SB, etc will be done so that really only leaves HP increase and intercooler to match - all of which needs to be within what I consider value for money.

As for voding the warranty, theres only 9 months left and the other things on the car might tip the balance against me anyway (althought West End saif they'd warranty stock parts on the 211hp Furb on eBay and they are my local Skoda dealer).

Anyway, all the above advice is much appreciated. Think I need to start asking questions of STAR and Intercooler manufacturers.

[VRStu]

You can get 170hp with a generic map and no intercooler mods - Save your money.

[sixdegrees]

Originally Posted by VRStu

You can get 170hp with a generic map and no intercooler mods - Save your money.

Aye, but I'm kind of reluctant to allow the engine to run inefficiently due to power loss..... if its putting out more power, more heat and what not then an appropriate increase in intercooler size would be then sensible thing to do.

Surely a step up to an intermediate Forge Unversal IC would be an improvement and the one I was looking at was a bit over £200, plus about £100 for pipe work should see me OK for 1/2 the cost of the vRS IC kit.

[VRStu]

IMHO it wouldn't be worth it, but entirely your choice. I would say if you include all the VAG cars that there would be 1000's of PD130's running remaps without bigger I/C's and running happily.

I also think from what you say that by introducing that amount of pipework and a bigger I/C with a modest remap you would in fact worsen your car's performance.

£300 could be spent else where improving handling.

[VRStu]

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