Kumho KU31 to Toyo T1-R

[Chris GB]

Hi to All

I have replaced the Kumhos with a set of Toyo T1-R. Size is 205/45 16 87W RF. The tyre is a reinforced version of the T1-R and given the soft sidewall of the standard tyre and the weight of the PD lump, this is a good thing.

Initial impressions were good. Tyre noise is noticeably less than with either the Kumhos or the Contis. Ride comfort and suppression of surface imperfections is better too. The tyres took a fair bit of time to scrub in (around 1000 miles) but once they settled down they have been most impressive.

In the dry:

The first thing that strikes me about these tyres is the accuracy of their response to input and the feel that they convey. Unlike previous tyres I have run on the car, they are very consistent in their response. As turning force goes up, the response stays linear. This is noticeable after the Kumhos and the Contis before them. They also don't squirm under duress. Grip level is very high once they are warmed up. It is easy to lean heavily on them and feel the grip limit approaching as the steering tends to go just a little light before they give up completely. Once past the limit of adhesion they drift pretty evenly and recovery is quick for the level of grip available. The steering feel stays with you consistently even past the limit of adhesion, making it easy to overdrive the car if you want to.

The actual grip levels are higher than the Kumho or Continental predecessors can manage. My favourite local test circle (roundabout) shows a 4mph gain in maximum cornering speed over the Kumhos. Grip under braking seems to be better and traction is excellent.

Subjectively, the turn in is a little less immediate than with the Kumhos, however, once turned in, the car can be held in the cornering balance more easily, the back being much easier to bring into play and hold now. High speed cornering is also more consistent. Where both the Kumhos and the Contis would occasionally feel like they were tucking in under the car on high speed corners, the Toyos retain their integrity and always feel stable, predictable and sure footed.

In the wet:

First impressions again are good. At normal speeds the tyre is, as in the dry, consistent and sure footed. Today's test run was the first time the roads here have seen rain in the last 3 weeks, so the surfaces were less than great.

The speeds that can be carried on these tyres while staying within the limits of grip is are very high. One is encouraged to push on much the same as one would in the dry. Lateral grip is very high indeed where the surface is clean. Once adhesion has been overcome it is easy to hold a consistent drift for what seems like ages. Ease off the turning force a bit and recovery is quick considering the grip level, the steering feel remaining consistently informative and letting you know what is going on.

Braking in the wet is pretty astounding. The levels of adhesion are very very good in the wet even braking on unevenly rutted surfaces. There is a hint of squirm to let you know if the surface is uneven, but the tyres remain consistent up to the very late triggering of the ABS system.

The tyre works well in standing water up to a point. There is a decidedly strong tendency to pull at the steering pretty forcefully when standing water is encountered on one side of the car, more so than the Kumhos and much more so than the Contis. The tyres still retain good grip and I would say that they cope with standing water well generally.

Traction in the wet is a little odd in view of the rest of the tyres performance. A technique I use on wet roads is to load the car up into the corner, then use the throttle to gauge the grip available, pushing the car into gentle understeer by setting up a little wheelspin to find the limit then easing off the throttle a little to regain grip and retain the line. Wet traction on these tyres is generally good, however, once you have overcome the grip, you need to get off the throttle a long way before grip comes back. At the same time, the front end will be washing wide. I was able to exit a fast roundabout this morning at 60mph and keep the little TC light flashing accusingly at me for about 100m while running gently out of road. On the plus side, recovery is gentle enough not to pitch the car into oversteer as grip comes back. It may be that this effect is a result of the high limit at which these tyres let go.

Generally in the wet, these tyres give me the quickest and most stable A to B performance of any tyre I have used on the Fabia to date.

Conclusion:

These tyres have the feel of a seriously well engineered product. Steering feel is positive and consistent in a way that few tyres deliver. Progression once past the limit is generally excellent. I have slight reservations about the way they recover from loss of traction under hard acceleration, but I was taking the P a lot to get this effect. I have also had reports that the damp road performance is not particularly as good as in fully wet conditions, there was a hint of this on the test run but as the roads were dirty from 3 weeks without a spot of rain, I will reserve judgement on this. The compound feels very soft, so tyre life may not be all that great. We shall see.

Are they worth an extra £20 a corner over the Kumhos? Most definitely. That they are cheaper than the Contis which they comprehensively out perform on the Fabia makes them a good choice IMO.

Chris

[Shifty]

I have these tyres currently fitted to both of my cars, Porsche fitment on the Octy, on 235/40/18, and 205/40.17 on the Fabia. I have never used a better all round tyre. Dry grip is more than adequate, with very progressive behaviour beyond the limit, and wet grip when they are properly scrubbed in, on a properly wet road is astonishing!

Another vote from me for these tyres

[Chris GB]

Originally Posted by Shifty

I have these tyres currently fitted to both of my cars, Porsche fitment on the Octy, on 235/40/18, and 205/40.17 on the Fabia. I have never used a better all round tyre. Dry grip is more than adequate, with very progressive behaviour beyond the limit, and wet grip when they are properly scrubbed in, on a properly wet road is astonishing!

Another vote from me for these tyres

How do you rate them on a damp rather than wet road?

Chris

[Tom_vRS]

Nice review Chris, cheers. I'll be choosing these for the Passat when the Contis need changing, look forward to the aforementioned improvements!!!

[Shifty]

Originally Posted by Chris GB

How do you rate them on a damp rather than wet road?

Chris

I think damp roads provide the least grip on any all round tyre to be honest, but the Toyo out performs both the Conti's and the Eagle F1's imho. The 888's I also use give the best grip in the damp

[Tom_vRS]

I'm yet to find a tyre that performs well in damp/greasy conditions. I prefer soaking wet over damp any day of the week!!

[Chris GB]

Originally Posted by Shifty

I think damp roads provide the least grip on any all round tyre to be honest, but the Toyo out performs both the Conti's and the Eagle F1's imho. The 888's I also use give the best grip in the damp

Seriously tempting to go for the 888s on the MR2. Talking to a guy running them on an Evo a few weeks ago, he reckoned they did not grip at all until they had some heat in them. Don't know if they will make a good road tyre or not? The RE040 Bridgestones I am running presently have reasonable grip and although snappy on breakaway, they come back really quickly when the correction is applied.

Chris

[Shifty]

Originally Posted by Chris GB

Seriously tempting to go for the 888s on the MR2. Talking to a guy running them on an Evo a few weeks ago, he reckoned they did not grip at all until they had some heat in them. Don't know if they will make a good road tyre or not? The RE040 Bridgestones I am running presently have reasonable grip and although snappy on breakaway, they come back really quickly when the correction is applied.

Chris

Well, the 888's do work better when they are hot, hotter the better really!. As for when you lose grip with them - you don't, and if you do - it's been nice knowing you, as it will be curtains.

I run them as road tyres in dry weather, and they work brilliantly in the damp/wet, what they don't like is standing water. Aquaplaning goes to a whole new level, but as long as you are aware of that, you can adjust to the conditions. Highly recommended by me as the grippiest legal tyre you can buy for the road!!!!

[Chris GB]

Originally Posted by Shifty

Well, the 888's do work better when they are hot, hotter the better really!. As for when you lose grip with them - you don't, and if you do - it's been nice knowing you, as it will be curtains.

I run them as road tyres in dry weather, and they work brilliantly in the damp/wet, what they don't like is standing water. Aquaplaning goes to a whole new level, but as long as you are aware of that, you can adjust to the conditions. Highly recommended by me as the grippiest legal tyre you can buy for the road!!!!

Hmmm

Will have to look at them carefully. Also under consideration are Yoko Advan Neova LTS, the Lotus specific fitting and also the Yoko A048R. May just stay with the RE040 though as they are progressive and hold on well in most conditions. They are also telepathically direct in their steering response with rock hard sidewalls.

Quite a few folks run the Toyo T1-R on the MR2, having driven one with them on, I personally did not like the feel of that particular tyre combo. Felt it was a bit prone to drop in at the back end. Spookily enough, the one I drove on T1-Rs recently had a big expensive off when the tyres let go unexpectedly in damp conditions.

The more I think about it, the more I want progression for a road car.

Chris

[ric04vrs]

another vote for Toyos here , had previously used 2 on the front which were quite worn when i got them , but gripped brilliantly at the "Ring" and on a track day at Oulton Park

now got a brand new set of 4 fitted and even after just 200 miles the grip is superb , and they do seem to be a lot quieter than the previous Dunlops and Michelins aswell , which is a bonus

also less of a pull to the left than when i had the Dunlops fitted

[Chris GB]

Another set of Toyos went on last week, replacing the previous ones. This set seemed to settle down much more quickly, have much better wet traction and lateral grip than the last set did when they where new and still work well in the dry.

Last set lasted 27,000 miles in mostly instructor mode.

Chris

[Kaiserb_uk]

I have these on the front at the moment and I like them a lot - I agree with all your assessments about wet grip Chris. However, personally I don't think they've quite matched the F1 GSD3's I had on previously. It's a close run thing though.

[Chris GB]

Originally Posted by Kaiserb_uk

I have these on the front at the moment and I like them a lot - I agree with all your assessments about wet grip Chris. However, personally I don't think they've quite matched the F1 GSD3's I had on previously. It's a close run thing though.

I think the F1 GSD 3 will be marginally better, but I heard that after around 5,000 miles they go pretty much off. The Toyos stayed good all the way through their life. Also at £72 each, the Toyos are very good value IMO.

Chris

[Kaiserb_uk]

Actually I've been wondering whether the F1's went off or if I just got used to them...perhaps they did then. They certainly didn't last very long, I've yet to see how the Toyo's compare in that regard.

[Chris GB]

Originally Posted by Kaiserb_uk

Actually I've been wondering whether the F1's went off or if I just got used to them...perhaps they did then. They certainly didn't last very long, I've yet to see how the Toyo's compare in that regard.

I got fair mileage out of the Toyos. They lasted slightly longer than the Kumho KU31 I had before and a lot less long than the Contis before that. Pence per mile, the Kumhos come out best. Smiles per mile, the Toyos have it IMO.

Chris

[anonymouse]

Dunno if you saw this - may be of use / confirm your observations (or not - too tired and to check).

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/gener...re-test/95643/

[vRS Hopeful]

ChrisGB
I have been looking up your old posts on Tyres.
Very useful thanks very much.
I hope you enjoy the mini when you get it

Best wishes Chris

[Chris GB]

Originally Posted by vRS Hopeful

ChrisGB
I have been looking up your old posts on Tyres.
Very useful thanks very much.
I hope you enjoy the mini when you get it

Best wishes Chris

Looking at your username, you fancy buying my VRS Fabia?

Chris

[Wardy]

Somehow missed this thread the first time round Chris

Another excellent review for you, and still relevant to this day too. Will be ordering yet more T1-Rs this week. Like Mr Shifty, I cannot find a better all-round tyre, especially for the money. I did not have long enough to properly test the newest challenger in the Toyo range, the PX4, as I didn't have the wheels they were fitted to long enough But I would expect these to supersede the T1-Rs before too long, much as the T1-S was phased out.

Steve