Mid range and bass

Jimbo79 · 27-03-2006, 08:33

Morning,
I've put in Pioneer TS-1785 components in the front and infinity 5002i coaxials in the rear of my mk1 octy and they sound loads better than the OEM's until that is I start moving at more than 50mph then all the mid range and bass disappears.

Has anyone got any recommendations on how to improve this? (I was king of hoping to use this as an excuse to get a sub

, but its not going to sort the mid range out really.)

daver · 27-03-2006, 09:06

Sound deaden the doors and the back of the door cards, will make a huge difference to how the speakers sound, they will be much better though if you amp them and add a sub as you can use the cross over in your Hu ( assuming it has one if it is aftermarket) to cut off the deep bass from th front, turn them up and use the sub for the bass it really makes a huge difference!!

Jimbo79 · 27-03-2006, 09:19

ok cheers am gonna get one of those infinity basslinks as a sub. Just need a recommendation for a fairly cheap amp for the coaxials or would it be better for the components?. ( will it need to have pass thru RCA's as my HU only has one set of pre outs?) Thanks.

P.S. How easy is it to do the sound deadening?

bk1 · 27-03-2006, 10:06

I put the TS-1785's in my MkI octy yesterday, and they do sound much better than the cheap nasty originals that were in there, especially the tweeters.

One thing I notice is that I have to turn the volume up higher to get the same level of sound out of the pioneers - is that normal?

I left the original connectors on the door wiring, and wired spade connectors to the pioneer wire, shoving the spades into the OEM connectors and taping them in place so they don't fall out.

Jimbo79 · 27-03-2006, 10:15

[quote=bk1]I put the TS-1785's in my MkI octy yesterday, and they do sound much better than the cheap nasty originals that were in there, especially the tweeters.

One thing I notice is that I have to turn the volume up higher to get the same level of sound out of the pioneers - is that normal?

I dunno if its normal but the same happened to me- the sound seems to get 'trapped' in the footwell, ok if you're from chernobyl and have your ears on your feet but not so good for the rest of us. It's what I'm trying to sort out now.

Josh_PoloGTi · 27-03-2006, 10:25

That's the problem with co-axials when they're at the bottom of the doors... The sound seems to come from down there, where as if you've got components, the soundstage is a lot higher due to the tweeters being at almost ear level.

Jimbo79 · 27-03-2006, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh_PoloGTi

That's the problem with co-axials when they're at the bottom of the doors... The sound seems to come from down there, where as if you've got components, the soundstage is a lot higher due to the tweeters being at almost ear level.

It is a component in the footwell. The tweeter is in the mirror thingy. You can hear the treble fine and it sounds like its coming from in front but there's not enough mid range from the footwell to back it up IMO.

bk1 · 27-03-2006, 11:18

The TS-1785's are component, not coaxials.
I have bass on +3 or +4, loud on and treble on 0. It sounds crisp and clean, whereas higher volumes on the originals made them boomy for bass and harsh noise for treble, mid range was very very poor.

The pioneers help a lot with mid range, tweeters are a much cleaner sound, bass is nothing special, but overall soundstage is much better - even with fade and balance entirely to just front right, sound in centre of dash was very good.

I also notice that the booming sound of "heavy" bass on the doors has reduced massively - the old speakers used to boom a lot but the pioneers are not doing that as much, so I can turn the bass and the overall volume up.

I think the speakers need more use for them to loosen up and settle in - maybe then I will not need volume quite as high. I found that when I was fitting them yesterday, I had volume on 7 on old speaker, and had to have it on 15 to get same amount of sound on the new speaker. (This was with one old and one new installed).

I am also having to fade towards the front (e.g. FRONT +4), as the crap sounds of the rears are more noticeable now, as you would expect.

vindaloo · 27-03-2006, 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk1

...One thing I notice is that I have to turn the volume up higher to get the same level of sound out of the pioneers - is that normal?
...

It's not bound to happen but it is usual. The x-overs aren't 100% efficient (like nowhere near). It's one of the main reasons for recommending a separate amp. to drive component speakers rather than use the h/u.

J.

Jimbo79 · 27-03-2006, 22:32

ah I see.. In which case can anyone recommend an amp for my TS-1785's and where can I put it?? Cheers

vindaloo · 28-03-2006, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo79

ah I see.. In which case can anyone recommend an amp for my TS-1785's and where can I put it?? Cheers

<sigh> Just read that you have an Octy, not a Furby. Finger now hurts from bashing DELETE and backspace...

Ideal place is under the passenger seat or attached to the passenger seat subframe. Look at the Genesis Profile 2. You may have more space to play with but ideally, the amp. will be relatively small, fan cooled, 2x75 watts RMS into 4 ohms and with the inputs, power, earth and speaker outputs on the same end.

PS: You should run dedicated power from the battery to the amp. Make sure it's fused near the battery!

J.

Jimbo79 · 28-03-2006, 08:45

Sorry about your finger!

Under the seat you say? This sounds quite tricky to say the least, will a villiage idiot like me be able to do this?

That Genesis amp looks like just the job but there's no way SWMBO will let me

Any others that might be a bit cheaper?? Thanks for all your help.

bk1 · 28-03-2006, 13:44

Doh. I just found that I have wired my speakers the wrong way 'round: I did brown as +ve on the fronts, and that should have been -ve. Looks like I'll be spending 20 minutes swapping them all over this evening...

vindaloo · 29-03-2006, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo79

Sorry about your finger!

Under the seat you say? This sounds quite tricky to say the least, will a villiage idiot like me be able to do this?

That Genesis amp looks like just the job but there's no way SWMBO will let me

Any others that might be a bit cheaper?? Thanks for all your help.

Have a look in the for sale section. Walkie is selling a Vibe amp. Retail, it's around £160...

Jimbo79 · 29-03-2006, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by vindaloo

Have a look in the for sale section. Walkie is selling a Vibe amp. Retail, it's around £160...

Yeah saw that but didn't know if it would fit.Cheers

27-03-2006, 08:33	#1
Jimbo79 Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Liverpool Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mid range and bass Morning, I've put in Pioneer TS-1785 components in the front and infinity 5002i coaxials in the rear of my mk1 octy and they sound loads better than the OEM's until that is I start moving at more than 50mph then all the mid range and bass disappears. Has anyone got any recommendations on how to improve this? (I was king of hoping to use this as an excuse to get a sub , but its not going to sort the mid range out really.)

27-03-2006, 09:06	#2
daver Skudmunki Join Date: May 2003 Location: Northwest Posts: 482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass Sound deaden the doors and the back of the door cards, will make a huge difference to how the speakers sound, they will be much better though if you amp them and add a sub as you can use the cross over in your Hu ( assuming it has one if it is aftermarket) to cut off the deep bass from th front, turn them up and use the sub for the bass it really makes a huge difference!! __________________ http://www.sloganizer.net/en/] Diamond Silver 54 Octy vRS Mk1, 18" TT Quattro Black / Polished rims, 225x40x18 Goodyear F1 GSD3,a Forge FMIC, Forge Eliminator DV , 4bar FPR, HID Hi/Lo Mains and fogs, LED purewhite LED Sidelights, HID Fogs, Silvervision Indicator bulbs all round, Headlight protectors...

27-03-2006, 09:19	#3
Jimbo79 Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Liverpool Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass ok cheers am gonna get one of those infinity basslinks as a sub. Just need a recommendation for a fairly cheap amp for the coaxials or would it be better for the components?. ( will it need to have pass thru RCA's as my HU only has one set of pre outs?) Thanks. P.S. How easy is it to do the sound deadening? Last edited by Jimbo79; 27-03-2006 at 09:39.

27-03-2006, 10:06	#4
bk1 Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK - SouthEast Posts: 251 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass I put the TS-1785's in my MkI octy yesterday, and they do sound much better than the cheap nasty originals that were in there, especially the tweeters. One thing I notice is that I have to turn the volume up higher to get the same level of sound out of the pioneers - is that normal? I left the original connectors on the door wiring, and wired spade connectors to the pioneer wire, shoving the spades into the OEM connectors and taping them in place so they don't fall out.

27-03-2006, 10:15	#5
Jimbo79 Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Liverpool Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass [quote=bk1]I put the TS-1785's in my MkI octy yesterday, and they do sound much better than the cheap nasty originals that were in there, especially the tweeters. One thing I notice is that I have to turn the volume up higher to get the same level of sound out of the pioneers - is that normal? I dunno if its normal but the same happened to me- the sound seems to get 'trapped' in the footwell, ok if you're from chernobyl and have your ears on your feet but not so good for the rest of us. It's what I'm trying to sort out now.

27-03-2006, 11:18	#8
bk1 Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK - SouthEast Posts: 251 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass The TS-1785's are component, not coaxials. I have bass on +3 or +4, loud on and treble on 0. It sounds crisp and clean, whereas higher volumes on the originals made them boomy for bass and harsh noise for treble, mid range was very very poor. The pioneers help a lot with mid range, tweeters are a much cleaner sound, bass is nothing special, but overall soundstage is much better - even with fade and balance entirely to just front right, sound in centre of dash was very good. I also notice that the booming sound of "heavy" bass on the doors has reduced massively - the old speakers used to boom a lot but the pioneers are not doing that as much, so I can turn the bass and the overall volume up. I think the speakers need more use for them to loosen up and settle in - maybe then I will not need volume quite as high. I found that when I was fitting them yesterday, I had volume on 7 on old speaker, and had to have it on 15 to get same amount of sound on the new speaker. (This was with one old and one new installed). I am also having to fade towards the front (e.g. FRONT +4), as the crap sounds of the rears are more noticeable now, as you would expect. Last edited by bk1; 27-03-2006 at 11:20.

27-03-2006, 22:32	#10
Jimbo79 Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Liverpool Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass ah I see.. In which case can anyone recommend an amp for my TS-1785's and where can I put it?? Cheers

28-03-2006, 08:45	#12
Jimbo79 Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Liverpool Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass Sorry about your finger! Under the seat you say? This sounds quite tricky to say the least, will a villiage idiot like me be able to do this? That Genesis amp looks like just the job but there's no way SWMBO will let me Any others that might be a bit cheaper?? Thanks for all your help.

28-03-2006, 13:44	#13
bk1 Briskodian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: UK - SouthEast Posts: 251 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Mid range and bass Doh. I just found that I have wired my speakers the wrong way 'round: I did brown as +ve on the fronts, and that should have been -ve. Looks like I'll be spending 20 minutes swapping them all over this evening...

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