Cambelts -- A Warning

[mellowyellow]

The trouble with cambelts is that manufacturers set the replacement intervals , and if they have some break before the recommended intervals , they then change the replacement intervals ..................as with Vauxhall in the last year , on some of their vehicles they have halved the replacement mileage

[Dutch4x4]

Originally posted by skodaw in this post
but if the car is over 3 years old ie out of warranty - then it's purely goodwill only....case in point- car recovered to us today S3 3yrs old last march - 46,000 miles -- Audi will give 70% parts discount - no labour contribution,even though belt is not supposed to be changed untill 111,000 miles !!

I'd have you in court for that - and I'd win, slamming EU consumer law right in your face...

[otheos]

I'd have you in court for that - and I'd win, slamming EU consumer law right in your face...

I second that. For £2K, better have the lawyers take it than Skoda/Audi/VW/Seat. After all it should last. Not our fault.

[skodaw]

That's true - at one time it was easy DIESEL = 60,000 PETROL = 80,000,now some Diesel are 80,000 and some Petrol(RS4) are 40,000 and some are 74,000,some are 111,000 some are never ????(A3/A4 1,6).

With the new variable servicing it's making things even harder - case in point Audi Allroad 2.5 TDi quattro came in week b4 last - 84,000 miles - belt due at 74,000 - VERY lucky - guy lives 400 miles from us - never been to us before or likely to again - was in area on business - we had to lend him a car for a week (&2,300 miles) so we could do belt - if we had let him go with out doing it - we would have been liable -- even though it's his responsibility to make sure car is serviced on time and correctly...and he wasn't a bit gratefull that we actually registered a car for him to use(A6 2.5 Avant) because "Its not an Allroad" !!!!
There is a very true saying in the motor trade -- Without customers this job would be grate!

although before anyone points it out - I will admit that without customers we would exist,and it has to be said that I have more good customers than bad -- I even count some of them as personal friend's.

but another trade saying -- "Miracles we can do -- the impossible takes longer...."

[DGW]

Octavia toothed belt replacement intervals are:

1.8T petrol engines - 180,000km

TDI and SDI engines (except ALH engine with auto gearbox) - 90,000km

ALH diesel engine with auto gearbox - 60,000km

[Dutch4x4]

180,000km?

That's the longest interval I've ever heard of!

[spc]

Originally posted by Dutch4x4 in this post
180,000km?

That's the longest interval I've ever heard of!

it's that miles/km thing again!

The 180000km has been refered to several times already as 111000miles, by the guys 'in the business'......

[DGW]

Originally posted by skodaw in this post

One last point -- change intervals are sometimes quoted in KM's -- be aware - 120,000 KM's = 74,000 Miles NOT 80,000 miles, likewise 180,000 KM's = 111,000 Miles.

Dave has raised an interesting point here about conversions. The Octavia Service Schedule quotes service intervals in km but also gives equivalent figures in miles, where 15,000km = 10,000 miles, 30,000km = 20,000 miles, 60,000km = 40,000 miles. Some km figures are not converted, eg 50,000km variable service limit for diesels, and 90,000 and 180,000km limits for toothed belt changes. The 30,000km variable service limit for my car equates to 18,641 miles, but the service schedule shows that the next service is due at 20,000 miles variable. I would argue that in the case of Skodas the rounded up mileage is what counts not the exact km to miles conversion figure.

[DGW]

Originally posted by Dutch4x4 in this post
180,000km?

That's the longest interval I've ever heard of!

Haven't you read your Service Schedule yet, Mattijs? It contains some useful info, including whether your car is set for variable service intervals or not.

[MonkeyHanger]

Originally posted by mellowyellow in this post
The trouble with cambelts is that manufacturers set the replacement intervals , and if they have some break before the recommended intervals , they then change the replacement intervals ..................as with Vauxhall in the last year , on some of their vehicles they have halved the replacement mileage

Absoloutely spot on !

I took my old Astra Sport in for a service (40000 miles) just before they changed this. Having noticed the cambelt interval was something like 60 or 80k in the handbook, i questioned it, as i was accustomed to 3 year / 36000 belt changes.....

"No need to change it sir, thats the interval....."

The car was in a few days later for some extra work needed that they spotted during the service. A very sheepish service manager showed me the Bulletin they had from Vauxhall a couple of days before, advising them about the reduction in cambelt change intervals....

Whats that old saying about the customer always being right ?

[Stuart_J]

Dave,

A Question for you or anyone else who may know.

If you are concerned about cambelt failure are their "better than standard" ones on the market. Presumably those who tune & race VAG cars dont fit standard belts if they are suspect as the cost of rebuilding a race motor would be considerably more.

If yes any idea who makes them & how do costs compare with the standard item.

Also a question for TaviaRS if he picks it up, as you tend to load test your car fairly heavily are you still on the original belt & what is your current mileage. This should give a good indication of what the Vrs will take !!!

Stuart

[skodaw]

Stuart

As far as I know there are no "Heavy Duty" belts available,although you can get special conversion's on really high power engines that do away with the standard system.

I suspect that most motorsport teams will just have their own change interval for standard belts most likely based around the power/usage for that particular vehicle.

I think as long as anyone with higher output & therefore higher stressed engines bears this in mind they should not have any problems

But the Golden rule has to be -- if you hear any unusual noises from the cambelt area - don't assume that it will be ok - get it checked - no matter what mileage - case in point the S3 in previous post.....

Just to clarify on the warranty posistion -- if the car is less than 60,000 miles or 3yrs old and has been serviced by the main dealer - then of course premature failure is covered - no problem.

Where the vehicle is outside of this criteria - then the goodwill rule applies - I have yet to come accross a case that went legal -- if it were to go legal - the customer would sue the dealership,who would sue the importer who would sue the manufacterer of the offending article,so in cases were it's been a bit dodgy we usually manage to come to some agreement ie reduction in labout costs to Audi so that they can make "A Goodwill Gesture" to cover a large proportion if not all of the cost.....the confusion lies due to there not being any laid down rules about this -- it's case to case thing.

[Dutch4x4]

Originally posted by DGW in this post
Haven't you read your Service Schedule yet, Mattijs? It contains some useful info, including whether your car is set for variable service intervals or not.

I did. It is. Didn't remember this particular issue though - and it's still a long way in the future for me and (more probably) the next owner.

Still amazed by the mileage it is supposed to last. If it does, then it's hats off.

[cra]

My car (non-Skoda) has a chain and despite it not being a servicable item, I've recently replaced it.

Mileage was 162,000 miles and it cost me £150. Technician who did it said that it was 3% worn.

Prevention is better than cure.

[bandit1]

Originally posted by mellowyellow in this post
The trouble with cambelts is that manufacturers set the replacement intervals , and if they have some break before the recommended intervals , they then change the replacement intervals ..................as with Vauxhall in the last year , on some of their vehicles they have halved the replacement mileage

I had a similar issue just over a year or so ago with my Vectra (V6 24V Quad Cam).

The car went in for a service (60,000 I Think) & I questioned the price as I thought it was too cheap to include the Cambelt change. I was informed that it did not need to be changed again (Again??) until 80,000. I pointed out that it was on the original belt which was due at 60,000. Aha said the Service Manager "There has been a change since the last time you had the car serviced - the interval is now 40,000" " As you're car had already covered 60,000, we ASSUMED that the belt had been changed", Despite the fact that they had always serviced the car & they had the service book in front of them !! Muppets !!

Needless to say that was one GM Dealer in Chesterfield that lost a customer - For Good !!


I hate to think what that would have cost if it let go !

I think that the whole issue of manufacturer's changing the service life of a product is one that is destined to be tested by the courts. You buy a new car with a set service interval, this forms part of a "contract", If they want to make changes, then that sets the scene for reproach !!






Graham

[philc]

When I picked up my V6 Omega (on 25K miles), I asked the salesman about the replacement interval for the cambelt. He said 40K -and no longer! The Vauxhall V6 wears out the cambelt guides and tensioner before the belt.
Manufacturers tend to like to overstate service intervals, as it lowers the leasing costs in the fleet market. Alfa Romeo got badly bitten on the 156's -when we sold a 156 off our fleet, they were amazed that we had a car on 50K with it's original engine! Most have broken by then, as the cambelt change was originally stated at 80K, and it MUST be done at 40. Ours was changed at 35, after another problem!
Phil

[Turbo_Boss]

Hello skodaw, Thank you for the advise. Let me ask you something.

1)Is this problem is only aply to 1.8T that have V V T ?

2)Have you see a I.8T without V V T having this problem? My engine is a AGU without V V T

3)Maybe the V V T system in the new 1.8T engines is putting and aditional stress on the cam belt.

4)How long or what year Audi, VW introduce this new V V T to his 1.8T engines? Maybe they had not make many test of the realibility of all the part that work in the V V T system?

Thank you again for your time, help and sharing this info.

Sincerely,

Isaac

[skodaw]

Hello Isaac

Yes we do mainly see the fault with VVT equipped 1.8T engines,although not exclusively.And even those which don't have VVT use very similar oil feed tensioners for the cam chain(being a dual cam engine - 1 cam driven direct off cambelt other by short chain link).
My own personal view is that it is this component that strains the belt - it only takes the oil pressure relief valve to stick and the tensioner's pressure against the chain will increase - this will then in turn increase the strain on the cambelt - hence stripped/seperated teeth - rather than snapped cambelts.

I will try and post some pictures to try and clarify these points.

As for the 46,000 mile S3 - we have today removed the cylinder head to find all exhaust valves buried in combustion chamber surface and all inlet valves showing impact marks - but appear to be ok,likewise tops of pistons marked - but ok.
This vehicle has full history,no other defects and has stripped approx 6inch length of teeth - the vehicle requires new cylinder head - total repair bill £1,700 plus vat -- Audi Germany paying 70% parts only Audi UK paying the remaining labour and parts costs - appart from (a voluntary) contribution of £10 from the customer to enable him to take advantage of the 2 year unlimited mileage warranty that comes with all Audi parts.This S3 brings the total number of cambelt fail cars in our yard to :4 - all 1.8T vehicles (A3,S3,TT180&TT225) - all failed before change interval - all failed in same manner.

One thing I would stress -- make sure your oil level is correct,make sure when topping up you don't overfill - and that you use correct oils -- also make sure you change oil when due - more often if engine is tuned or if you do lot's of short journeys.

[TaviaRS]

The interval is 120,000 miles for mine. Due to the <cough> easy <cough> life mine has, I changed mine at 60,000, just to be on the sfe side. Had an interesting "discussion" with Skoda about future warranty claims in that I wouldn't have adhered to the service schedule by changing it early. Never did get a straight answer to that one

Jon

[skodaw]

Jon

I don't see how there could be an issue -- it's not like you've missed anything -- quite the opposite.