Ford 2.0 TDCi 130 vs VAG 130PD

[clv101]

I'm curious, how do these two engines compare? Thinking about power band, torque, economy etc... Maybe the VAG 2.0 140 diesel is a better comparison?

Anyone driven both?

[logiclee]

Having driven many a hire Mondeo and Passat I can say they are very evenly matched.

Mondeo is smoother, more refined and quieter, Passat feels more urgent when the boost comes in but tails off quicker.
PD130 in the Passat seems slightly more economical but that may have something to do with the Mondeo feeling far more sporty to drive so you tend to push it a bit harder.

Cheers
Lee

[HellFire]

Well i've owned a TDCi 130 PS Mondeo Zetec S and I have to disagree with the above.

Mondeo is smoother, more refined and quieter, Passat feels more urgent when the boost comes in but tails off quicker.

The Mondeo doesnt come on boost until 2k rpm and below that you might aswell not bother, it hits all at once until about 4k rpm where it tails off - and it feels very urgent. Also, note the turbo lag & excess black smoke.

The Fabia vRS with the 1.9 PD 130 engine feels much more refined and sounds much better in comparison (actually almost sounds like a Petrol) whereas the Mondeo still sounds like a diesel (tank). The VAG PD 130 engine comes on tap at 1.5k and goes all the way to 4k rpm smoothly (with my mods it goes to 4.5k rpm no probs, but I thought it unfair to include them).

Passat seems slightly more economical but that may have something to do with the Mondeo feeling far more sporty to drive so you tend to push it a bit harder.

I agree the VAG PD engine is more economical, however I disagree that it's the TDCi 130 engine which makes it sporty to drive, for me it was a combination of an excellent chassis with 18" alloys (Standard), a very good spring & damper set up and excellent feel through the steering wheel (very precise). I can't comment on the Passat, but yes I agree it would get caned on a track, but not because of the engine.

I have not stated which I prefer or expressed my opinion as to which is better purely because it depends upon what car the engines are in, and how they are setup. However I do not think they are particuarly similar, and both engines take a different view point on how a turbo diesel should work. The PD engine is argueably more advanced though.

[logiclee]

You can't really compare the the Ford TDCi in a large family to a Vag PD130 in a supermini, of course they are going to be totally different.

I would imagine the TDCi130 in a Fiesta would feel far more lively than a PD130 in a Superb.

I also never said the TDCi made the Mondeo feel more sporty, it's the Mondeo's chassis, dynamics and steering that make you want to press on. You never get that feeling in a Passat, compared to the Mondeo the VW feels soggy and boring IMO.

I get hire cars three or four times a month and if I get a choice I take the Mondeo.

Cheers
Lee

[HellFire]

Your quote:

You can't really compare the the Ford TDCi in a large family to a Vag PD130 in a supermini, of course they are going to be totally different.

My quote:

I have not stated which I prefer or expressed my opinion as to which is better purely because it depends upon what car the engines are in

I think I clearly said that I was not comparing a Fabia vRS to a TDCi Mondeo.

Also, the question was about engines, not about the cars themselves, if we were comparing a Passat to a Mondeo, I would take a Mondeo every time, but not because of it's engine. Which brings us back to the point which I was answering, which has the best engine, and since I've owned a TDCi 130, pre-chipped & post chipping for 18 months I can definately say I would take the VAG PD because of it's smoothness & you dont realise how annoying it is on a diesel waiting for the turbo to kick in at 2k rpm, on the VAG PD - Power is seamless from start to finish, maybe not that full on adrenaline kick, but if you want that DONT BUY A DIESEL.

[logiclee]

Originally Posted by HellFire

Your quote:



My quote:



I think I clearly said that I was not comparing a Fabia vRS to a TDCi Mondeo.

Also, the question was about engines, not about the cars themselves, if we were comparing a Passat to a Mondeo, I would take a Mondeo every time, but not because of it's engine. Which brings us back to the point which I was answering, which has the best engine, and since I've owned a TDCi 130, pre-chipped & post chipping for 18 months I can definately say I would take the VAG PD because of it's smoothness & you dont realise how annoying it is on a diesel waiting for the turbo to kick in at 2k rpm, on the VAG PD - Power is seamless from start to finish, maybe not that full on adrenaline kick, but if you want that DONT BUY A DIESEL.

The PD130 and even the PD100 in the Fabia pulls strong from around 1600rpm but that's partly because of the weight. When the PD130 is in something like the Passat it really does need full boost before it starts pulling, it's not that different from the TDCi130 in the Mondeo.
Like I said earlier the PD130 in the Passat does initially pull stronger than the TDCi but it only lasts for a few hundred revs then the engines are pretty similar.
You really have to compare the engines in similar cars. A 1.8K Series Rover engine feels so unresponsive and down on power in a Rover 75, when it's installed in a Lotus Elise it feels ultra responsive and full of power. You can't compare two engines unless they are installed in similar aplications IMO
Performance figures for both The Mondeo and Passat are virtually identicle, the Mondeo being slightly quicker. It's not possible to say how the TDCi would feel in something like the Fiesta because Ford will only do a 1.4
Most of my Journeys are less than ten miles and from cold the TDCi Ford is far more refined than the VAG, on the run there is less in it but IMO the PD130 is more Vocal when pushing on.

Cheers
Lee

[HellFire]

I understand your point but owning a TDCi Mondeo and reading most reviews about TDCi's they all say they are noisey when cold and PD engines are much more refined. I also think the PD engine sounds nice when pushed but the TDCi felt stressed and sounded like a Transit, admittadly both my experiences are in two completely different cars, however indipendant road tests also confirm the PD engine to be much smoother than the TDCi - I do agree that the TDCi is faster, but at what cost?

[Fabpreza]

My girlfriend has owned a company Mondeo TdCi 130 since Jan 2002 (one of the first).

Engine traits:-

- Very unrefined when cold and/or at idle. (Much worse than my VAG diesel engines)
- The 'quality' of the noise is the problem. (Clattery, chattery, raspy all at once !)
- OK once you're on the motorway in 5th as you don't hear the engine
- Solid, sustained shove over 70mph. (Indicated 135mph abroad once)
- Not 'that' economical to be honest. 37-38mpg is typical, off the motorway

Car traits:-
- Very clunky traction control (bangs in and out in 1st and 2nd)
- Knobbly ride at times (even on 16's) but good roadholding and precise handling
- Bad clutch angle/ action
- Very poor rear visibility (worse than Octavia hatch)
- Wind-noise from B pillar (worse than Octavia 'windscreen' noise)
- Tons of room

Best comparison I can give you is the sprint we had to Wales between the Mondy and my (at the time) 190bhp A4 V6 TDI Quattro. The Audi was not that much quicker - better at the top end and out of bends, but nothing in it in the mid-range and on the motorway from 70 upwards.

Rob

[Turbostream]

Originally Posted by Fabpreza

Engine traits:-

- Very unrefined when cold and/or at idle. (Much worse than my VAG diesel engines)
- The 'quality' of the noise is the problem. (Clattery, chattery, raspy all at once !)

I can confer with this, a neighbour has a mondeo TCDi, it sound like a bag of nails when he starts up!

[HellFire]

Both engines are extremely good for diesels, but I view it like this. Ignore the press.

The Mondeo took a great step forward in moving from a TDi to a Common-Rail TDi, just like most other manufacturers diesels engines they are advanced for a diesel and very good. However, VW & BMW and the latest Ford Twin-Turbo (Joint venture one) are in a completely different league when it comes to engine refinement. You can make any car go from 0-60 in 8 seconds with enough power even in a diesel, but not many diesels are refined at low speeds & not noisy on a cold morning and actually sound half decent when you open them up, and only my Dad's 535D BMW & my vRS sound any good.

I am not critising ford for their design because it is an extremely good engine, just not the best im afraid, VW beat them to it.

[clv101]

There seem to be quite a few high power diesels these days:

Large 150bhp+ diesel cars
				bhp		0-60		mpg
Alfa Romeo 2.4 JTD Multijet	175		8.0		42
Audi A4 2.5 TDI			155/160/177	9.1/8.5/8.1	40/39/35
BMW 330d <'03			184		7.6		42
BMW 330d >'03			204		7.0		42
Ford Mondeo 2.2 TDCI		152		8.4		46
Jaguar S-Type 2.7d		206		8.1		40
Saab 9-5 3.0 TiD		176		8.9		38
SEAT Toledo/Leon 1.9 TDI	150		8.6		52
Vauxhall Vectra 3.0 CDTI	174		8.3		40
Volkswagen Bora 1.9 TDI		150		8.7		51
Volkswagen Golf 1.9 TDI		150		8.3		52
Volvo S60 2.4 D5		163		9.2		43

Anyone driven the Ford 152 TDCi?

[HellFire]

Yeah, I drove it when I traded in my Zetec S TDCi, it is strangely more refined than the 2.0 (eating my words), whether this is because of the larger capacity engine being worked less I am not sure. I do know however that it has a very small " on boost" area where it feels quick, if you catch it "off boost", it feels awful, and you have to change gear like on a petrol to find it again.