Ambiente vs Elegance, differences

[greg123]

Hi all,

We are looking for next car/project at either a SLX or one of the newer Elegance/Ambiente Octavias.

Main problem with the Elegance is it has a sunroof - I cannot have a sunroof. I could take it out but that would probably be a bit messy - though possible, involving at least a roof weld/skim and repaint.

I would also like an auto, which is not available in the Elegance or SLX. Ambient's seem to be more available/cheap as well. AFIK the 90hp engine is the same bar the map and vnt15, as I would probably go the FMIC and vnt17/vnt20 with custom manifolds, it wouldn't really represent much of a disadvantage over the 110. Map, injectors and some hardware would be changed anyhow making it a level playing field.

So... What does the Ambient auto miss out on compared to the Elegance? I'm interested in features and safety (side bags?, climate?, EBD/Traction?) and trying to figure out what would be less work, auto+no sunroof on to an elegance or upgrading bits on an Ambiente.

Thoughts please - other than 'you can't do that' because any of this is possible and I'm no stranger to it - however I don't want a project to be more complicated than it has to be!

Greg.

[Dr Zoidberg]

What's wrong with a sunroof?

I'm pretty sure that you can get the elegance with an auto gearbox.

You lose climate control in favour of manual aircon in the Ambiente , no headlight washers , no alloys on most of them , no rear electric windows (I think) and a few other odds and ends

[thephm]

Another biggie (for me at least) is the rear brakes are only drums on the Ambient while on the Elegance they are discs (not sure if the later Ambient SE had discs or not) and I think but I'm not sure the Ambients front discs are smaller too.

Barney

[greg123]

What's wrong is it lowers headroom by a large amount, look at the bulge in the headlining which goes up in the rear. I can't sit comfortably in an Elegance even with the seat fully down unless I recline at an angle bad for my back/neck, my only use for a sunroof was in the old days to get some cold air flowing (tilt) but with climate you would want it shut, I don't like the noise of it on fully open so I'm not that fussed about it. In any case that's irrelevent as I can't sit comfortably in one with a sunroof!

I have not seen anywhere an elegance auto with a 110tdi (I do not want a PD engine for a variety of reasons) and parkers list them only made as a 90hp auto Ambiente pre-pd.

From what you say it sounds like the only significant issue is the climate, which I would like. A novice can fix wheels/lights washers, if they are worth changing (the two octavia's I got my mate taught him that the 16'' wheels were a bad move for his pocket, almost twice the price of the 15'' and impossible to tell the difference behind the wheel other than the 16'' steers and rides slightly worse due to wider and low profile) What about airbags, ebd, traction, tints etc?

Greg

[greg123]

Now that's a pain. Fixable, but due to differences in ABS/ecu not sure how easily. Having to replace the whole braking system including ecu/pump wouldn't be good at all! Are you sure about this? It seems a crazy move to engineer two different brake systems for essentially the same car, same weight and only a 20hp difference...

Originally Posted by thephm

Another biggie (for me at least) is the rear brakes are only drums on the Ambient while on the Elegance they are discs (not sure if the later Ambient SE had discs or not) and I think but I'm not sure the Ambients front discs are smaller too.

Barney

[JRHartley]

If the main problem with the sunroof is headroom then why not rip the seat out and get a lower seat fitted like a recaro , rather than weld up the hole or make do with an ambient?

[Dr Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by greg123

What's wrong is it lowers headroom by a large amount, look at the bulge in the headlining which goes up in the rear. I can't sit comfortably in an Elegance even with the seat fully down unless I recline at an angle bad for my back/neck, my only use for a sunroof was in the old days to get some cold air flowing (tilt) but with climate you would want it shut, I don't like the noise of it on fully open so I'm not that fussed about it. In any case that's irrelevent as I can't sit comfortably in one with a sunroof!

How tall are you?
I'm 6ft2 and headroom was never an issue in mine.

[greg123]

Good idea and I have done this before. There are the following considerations:

1) as my knees would no longer bend with the legs doing down, my legs would go straight forward 'out to the front' more, meaning as they are already needing full rearward adjustment on the seat I would have to either move the pedalbox/bulkhead forwards (impossible - steering/engine in way) or also set the seat back so there is NO rear legroom. The latter also means my arms now don't reach the buttons/dash properly.
2) getting in and out of a low seat is a pain in the *** and I'm keen to avoid it as I don't just do long runs, especially on to a kerb where the kerb is *** level.....
3) The seat has airbags fitted in the side which I'd want to keep and want to keep the interior matching so I'd probably have to have it 'worked' by a pro which I'm told is a bit pricey.
4) the specially lowered seat is now too low for my 5'5 wife to drive the car. I am about a foot taller than her which is more than seat height adjustment can cope with - hence the need to start off with a car I can sit it.

I did this to my motorhome but as the steering wheel/dash is static I couldn't sit my *** a foot back or I wouldn't reach, as a result of the pedals also being static my *** is lower but my knees are now bent right up, so my lower half is more 'doubled up' and the bottom of the seat has quite a tilt up at the front to be able to support my thighs. It works more comfortably than being unable to sit in it for my head rubbing/neck bent, but it's not ideal.

Originally Posted by JRHartley

If the main problem with the sunroof is headroom then why not rip the seat out and get a lower seat fitted like a recaro , rather than weld up the hole or make do with an ambient?

[greg123]

6'4 and may well have a taller upper body proportion than you.

I also need to sit upright due to a bad back, if you wind your seat so you are sitting right up (keeping your neck in line more or less with your back, not bending it forwards so you can see) can you still sit in it? I can't.

Greg.

Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg

How tall are you?
I'm 6ft2 and headroom was never an issue in mine.

[cheezemonkhai]

6'4" but I have long legs.

I also sit pretty much bolt upright and didn't have a problem in the MKI Octy. I guess the only way to find out would be to go sit in one.

IIRC the TDI90 does get rear drums not discs all round.

[robmawer]

Ambiente does indeed have rear drums, but personally I wouldn't say it's a big issue - still stops OK.

Ambiente doesn't have full climate (just air-con), it has a passenger and driver's airbag, it doesn't have any of that traction control/stability nonsense, and it doesn't have the "leather pack" which the Elegance does.


Rob.

[greg123]

I have faded out the brakes on every car I have had, bar one (modified) so daily driving not so bad but spirited driving I may be dissapointed, especially as I read on this forum of brake upgrades being popular for the already 'ok' Elegance setup...

Personally I don't consider brakes right till my retina's try to detach when I stop...

TCS I can live with, IF it has a LSD, which it doesn't.... Don't you just love the ouside wheel spinning with no acceleration when powering (trying...) out of a roundabout in a FWD car with no TCS...

Climate, airbags, brakes, TCS... Looks like my only options are SLX (deal with auto) or Elegance/L&K and deal with sunroof/auto issues.

Originally Posted by robmawer

Ambiente does indeed have rear drums, but personally I wouldn't say it's a big issue - still stops OK.

Ambiente doesn't have full climate (just air-con), it has a passenger and driver's airbag, it doesn't have any of that traction control/stability nonsense, and it doesn't have the "leather pack" which the Elegance does.


Rob.

[robmawer]

Originally Posted by greg123

I have faded out the brakes on every car I have had, bar one (modified) so daily driving not so bad but spirited driving I may be dissapointed

...

Don't you just love the ouside wheel spinning with no acceleration when powering (trying...) out of a roundabout in a FWD car with no TCS...

If I was planning on driving a car that hard, I wouldn't be looking at either an Ambiente or an Elegance...they're just too soft and heavy...


Rob.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by greg123

Climate, airbags, brakes, TCS... Looks like my only options are SLX (deal with auto) or Elegance/L&K and deal with sunroof/auto issues.

Or buy a different car altogether.

My Mk1 was a good car for me , but if you are talking about swapping gear boxes and welding up sunroofs then this sounds like a hell of a lot of work to do on something that isn't that outstanding.

Have you looked at a Mondeo?

[greg123]

I thought it was a good deal lighter than my Volvo 960 3.0 24v estate????...

My 405 estate diesel is happy in this role 45,000 miles in (on it's original 80k) and 3 years of our ownership it's most things to most people (eg what task/mood I'm in) and the Octavia is better with quite good body roll control.

One of the things that put me off the Passat is that the transaxle is less efficient and it's a bit heavier and less aerodynamic according to the research I read.

What am I doing, you know I like the octavia or I wouldn't be here....

Greg.

[simonlb]

Normal Aircon on my Ambiente along with electric windows all round, manual box and 15" steel wheels.

[greg123]

I have Alex, the failure rate of the engines and much lower MPG as well as less easily tunable (the bullet proof TDI being able to get to around 200hp with no internal mods and 100% reliability) put me off. Also I prefer the 'german' interior of the Octavia, though the Mondeo was okay. All in I found the octavia a nicer car but the capping it off for me is the fact that the reliablity index of the octavia is best of the lot bar Lexus - check out warranty direct's service. My mate's Mondeo has been in for 2 warranty claims and £700 of non warranty clutch at the dealer, all under 50k. Air con broke too, from a non-stone related failure. All seems to be par for the course. Understeers when pushed hard, doesn't really do much better than the Octavia and a lot of things no so good, IMHO.

You say the Octy isn't that outstanding, but what other car can beat it's reliability (none, Lexus don't do a diesel small estate of the same class), has that space in the boot, comes with that gear, can be had under 3k, tuned to 200hp without serious money and retain 55mpg average and 67mpg on a run?

Oh yes - we run them on vegetable oil/biodiesl too to half the fuel costs, another thing the Mondeo can't do as far as I'm aware, like the Peugeot and the PD engine the fuel system is too delicate unlike on the near bullet proof VP37 on the Octavia. For what we want I find it outstanding, though I'm all ears if something better is found!

Greg.

Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg

Or buy a different car altogether.

My Mk1 was a good car for me , but if you are talking about swapping gear boxes and welding up sunroofs then this sounds like a hell of a lot of work to do on something that isn't that outstanding.

Have you looked at a Mondeo?

[greg123]

15" steels quite user friendly, miss that climate though!

Originally Posted by simonlb

Normal Aircon on my Ambiente along with electric windows all round, manual box and 15" steel wheels.

[abyss113]

ive got an ambiente TDI Automatic and its been a great car to use parts have been relativly cheap and fuel has been great only having to fuel up once a month is a bonus for me getting around 550miles to a full tank and thanks with the slighlty faulty gearbox it slips between 50-70mph in 4th a mechanic told me it could be a stuck valve so i popped in some gearbox condtioner from slick 50 and hopefully it will free itself up or ill have to get another gearbox

unfortunatly its just to big for me now and im only doing around 4 miles round trip to work so it isnt getting used so time to sell on i think

[Goochie]

Originally Posted by robmawer

....and it doesn't have the "leather pack" which the Elegance does.


Rob.

The Elegance has cloth trim as standard. Leather was an option.