Long brake pedal travel

Taxi 219 · 29-04-2008, 05:58

Is it me but when i put my foot down on the brake pedal when at a standstill idling i can slowly push my foot right down to the floor on the brake pedal.Is this right?
It has no leaks of fluid or any loss in the resevoir.Is it a vacum loss maybe? just seems weird.
If anyone can help or see if theres is like it then maybe you can let me know

Lex Dysia · 29-04-2008, 06:32

Master cylinder seals on the way out can cause this behaviour by allowing fluid to get pass the piston. Will not show any fluid loss but will reduce the pressure to the brake pads.

KenONeill · 29-04-2008, 13:28

It's not a servo problem; that would give you a harder, shorter (and heavier) pedal. I think it's one of an airlock, handbrake adjusters not (long h/b travel too if so) or the master cylinder seals.

Kjelli · 07-05-2008, 21:16

I need some tips here too. I have excatly the same problem.
The brakes work fine, but the pedal goes almost to the end before the brakes really grips. The handbrake do also have alot of travel, thishas been adjusted but I still think the travel is too much.

Just had the car at the shop and they said the brakes were fine. Another shop told me some part had to be changed and they wanted almost 900£ for the job including the part, I said no thanks and went to the other shop who told me the brakes were fine.

Kjelli

KenONeill · 08-05-2008, 09:00

Check that the handbrake adjusters are before doing anything else Kjelli. It means finding a guide or buying a Haynes, but the procedure is entirely DIYable.

cheezemonkhai · 08-05-2008, 11:33

Worn out pads perhaps?

Don't forget the piston is on the inner face on the octy so the inner pad will probably wear quicker than the outer pad.

Kjelli · 08-05-2008, 11:35

Thanks, I will get this checked.
Do I understand correct that if the self adjusting function of the rear brakes are not working correctly, the total volume of fluid that goes into the braking system is too high and therefore results in excessive pedal movement.
As long as I get full pressure and the pedal do not give at full pressure, I can suspect the fault to be with the rear brakes?

Cheers
Kjelli

KenONeill · 08-05-2008, 11:46

You've got the effect right, but the problem is that, if the adjusting mechanism doesn't hold the brake pads, they get knocked back into the calipers, and you have to pump more fluid to get the pads back into contact with the discs before they bite.

So effectively you'd get long initial travel, but if you applied the brakes again shortly after that first application, they'd probably be more or less ok.

Kjelli · 08-05-2008, 12:25

Thanks for the reply.
Pumping the brake pedal does not help much, the travel stays the same (long).

Cheers
Kjelli

KenONeill · 08-05-2008, 12:36

That looks like either air locks (Octy with ABS needs a special bleeding technique, not the usual "work towards the servo" one, the flexible hydraulic lines swelling under pressure (in which case change garages; the cowboys who said the brakes were fine are not to be trusted), or a master cylinder fault to me.

The other possibility would be if you're applying an unfair test; everything else feels long travel for a bit if your last car was a Hydropneumatic Citroen!

Kjelli · 09-05-2008, 00:17

Hehe, I know what you mean when talking about the citros. I have had several of those, loved every one one them. Far from perfect but they all got their own personality.

I will find the fault, I'll take it apart myself if I have to. I'll post back when I know whats wrong. This has not suddenly happend, it has gotten worse over 2 years, despite several brake shifts.

Thanks for all the valuable tips.

Cheers
Kjelli

JRHartley · 09-05-2008, 09:07

My moneys on Master cylinder seals ...

KenONeill · 09-05-2008, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRHartley

My moneys on Master cylinder seals ...

And according to Haynes' (was looking at brakes in respect of my twanging noise, check other threads from last 2 days), the master cylinder needs replacing; no repair parts available.

mbames · 09-05-2008, 09:24

interesting....

My Octy does what Taxi says, but I have had my master cyclinder replaced, and the last brake fluid change was done at a Skoda Dealer (after I got air into the ABS system

)

That said I guess I should be considering another brake fluid change shortly.

cheezemonkhai · 09-05-2008, 10:18

Try the halfords DOT5.1 fluid if you want a little more solid peddle IMHO.

There are others that are even better but for road use that will be more than fine.

Check all your pads too as that will five longer travel.

TKW · 09-05-2008, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheezemonkhai

Check all your pads too as that will five longer travel.

Do you experience significantly longer travel with worn pads? I don't think I have, and I can't really see why it would cause this.

KenONeill · 09-05-2008, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKW

Do you experience significantly longer travel with worn pads? I don't think I have, and I can't really see why it would cause this.

No. Based on having owned a car from new until I did wear out the OEM pads.

cheezemonkhai · 09-05-2008, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKW

Do you experience significantly longer travel with worn pads? I don't think I have, and I can't really see why it would cause this.

Depends on the car, but I've noticed it increase on some cars. Not hugely, but enough to notice.

29-04-2008, 05:58	#1
Taxi 219 Not anymore Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 2,166 Thanks: 99 Thanked 101 Times in 98 Posts	Long brake pedal travel Is it me but when i put my foot down on the brake pedal when at a standstill idling i can slowly push my foot right down to the floor on the brake pedal.Is this right? It has no leaks of fluid or any loss in the resevoir.Is it a vacum loss maybe? just seems weird. If anyone can help or see if theres is like it then maybe you can let me know __________________ Car now: 56 Octavia MK2 1.9TDi Ambiente-Debadged-Metallic Flamenco Red DMF Reqiured soon Previous: 06 Octavia Mk1 1.9TDi Classic with + pack-Diamond Silver Sadly missed: 97 Nissan Primera 2.0TDi SLX- Red Paul I only live for GTA IV

29-04-2008, 06:32	#2
Lex Dysia Briskodian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Buckinghamshire Posts: 384 Thanks: 28 Thanked 36 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Master cylinder seals on the way out can cause this behaviour by allowing fluid to get pass the piston. Will not show any fluid loss but will reduce the pressure to the brake pads. __________________ Upper & Lower S3 Strut braces-Forge FMDV006 DV-PiperX panel filter-Whiteline adjustable rear arb-Superpro Dogbone, Control arm & Front ARB bushes-LCR Splitter-Milotec Grilles-Golf MK4 Aero wipers-KVW100-Cruise Control-Parking Sensors-18" RS8 Alloys-N75H-Revo Stage 1 TO DO: Blueflame turbo back-Seat & Door Card Leather trim and a respray.

29-04-2008, 13:28	#3
KenONeill Briskodian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Normally somewhere in Scotland! Posts: 10,415 Thanks: 58 Thanked 492 Times in 483 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel It's not a servo problem; that would give you a harder, shorter (and heavier) pedal. I think it's one of an airlock, handbrake adjusters not (long h/b travel too if so) or the master cylinder seals.

07-05-2008, 21:16	#4
Kjelli Briskodian Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel I need some tips here too. I have excatly the same problem. The brakes work fine, but the pedal goes almost to the end before the brakes really grips. The handbrake do also have alot of travel, thishas been adjusted but I still think the travel is too much. Just had the car at the shop and they said the brakes were fine. Another shop told me some part had to be changed and they wanted almost 900£ for the job including the part, I said no thanks and went to the other shop who told me the brakes were fine. Kjelli

08-05-2008, 09:00	#5
KenONeill Briskodian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Normally somewhere in Scotland! Posts: 10,415 Thanks: 58 Thanked 492 Times in 483 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Check that the handbrake adjusters are before doing anything else Kjelli. It means finding a guide or buying a Haynes, but the procedure is entirely DIYable.

08-05-2008, 11:33	#6
cheezemonkhai Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14,780 Thanks: 92 Thanked 418 Times in 389 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Worn out pads perhaps? Don't forget the piston is on the inner face on the octy so the inner pad will probably wear quicker than the outer pad. __________________ Cars make CO2 and trees absorb CO2. By driving your car you're feeding a tree and helping the environment.

08-05-2008, 11:35	#7
Kjelli Briskodian Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Thanks, I will get this checked. Do I understand correct that if the self adjusting function of the rear brakes are not working correctly, the total volume of fluid that goes into the braking system is too high and therefore results in excessive pedal movement. As long as I get full pressure and the pedal do not give at full pressure, I can suspect the fault to be with the rear brakes? Cheers Kjelli

08-05-2008, 11:46	#8
KenONeill Briskodian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Normally somewhere in Scotland! Posts: 10,415 Thanks: 58 Thanked 492 Times in 483 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel You've got the effect right, but the problem is that, if the adjusting mechanism doesn't hold the brake pads, they get knocked back into the calipers, and you have to pump more fluid to get the pads back into contact with the discs before they bite. So effectively you'd get long initial travel, but if you applied the brakes again shortly after that first application, they'd probably be more or less ok.

08-05-2008, 12:25	#9
Kjelli Briskodian Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Thanks for the reply. Pumping the brake pedal does not help much, the travel stays the same (long). Cheers Kjelli

08-05-2008, 12:36	#10
KenONeill Briskodian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Normally somewhere in Scotland! Posts: 10,415 Thanks: 58 Thanked 492 Times in 483 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel That looks like either air locks (Octy with ABS needs a special bleeding technique, not the usual "work towards the servo" one, the flexible hydraulic lines swelling under pressure (in which case change garages; the cowboys who said the brakes were fine are not to be trusted), or a master cylinder fault to me. The other possibility would be if you're applying an unfair test; everything else feels long travel for a bit if your last car was a Hydropneumatic Citroen!

09-05-2008, 00:17	#11
Kjelli Briskodian Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Hehe, I know what you mean when talking about the citros. I have had several of those, loved every one one them. Far from perfect but they all got their own personality. I will find the fault, I'll take it apart myself if I have to. I'll post back when I know whats wrong. This has not suddenly happend, it has gotten worse over 2 years, despite several brake shifts. Thanks for all the valuable tips. Cheers Kjelli

09-05-2008, 09:07	#12
JRHartley Briskodian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North west Posts: 2,009 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 13 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel My moneys on Master cylinder seals ... __________________ I'm a celebrity...... Get me out of here !!!

09-05-2008, 09:24	#14
mbames Briskodian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Weymouth, Dorset Posts: 1,540 Thanks: 0 Thanked 67 Times in 59 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel interesting.... My Octy does what Taxi says, but I have had my master cyclinder replaced, and the last brake fluid change was done at a Skoda Dealer (after I got air into the ABS system ) That said I guess I should be considering another brake fluid change shortly.

09-05-2008, 10:18	#15
cheezemonkhai Briskodian Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14,780 Thanks: 92 Thanked 418 Times in 389 Posts	Re: Long brake pedal travel Try the halfords DOT5.1 fluid if you want a little more solid peddle IMHO. There are others that are even better but for road use that will be more than fine. Check all your pads too as that will five longer travel. __________________ Cars make CO2 and trees absorb CO2. By driving your car you're feeding a tree and helping the environment.

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