Bringing back 1.8T engine?

[Snapper]

Was at my dealers on Friday getting my first service done, and was doing some small talk with the salesman. He reckoned that Skoda were going to go back to the old 1.8T engine for the Octy vRS, didn't say when though.
Anyone else know about this or was he talking ar$e?

[sworrall]

it has been reported on here that theyll be replacing the 2.0 fsi engine with the 1.8t. Nothing about replacing the 2.0tfsi. sounds like cobblers to me.

[ap0gee]

Don't know enough about the technicalities, but there may be some sense in that. From what I gather, the 2.0TFSI is pretty much un-tuneable beyond 'factory settings', whereas the old 1.8T came in various guises from 150bhp to 225. Plus, it was very durable AFAIK. If they're having issues with 2.0TFSI reliability (I'm not saying they are, but if they did) then one solution might be to resurrect the 1.8T.

Certainly, the 2.0TDI (common rail) was supposed to be end for the 1.9TDI PD, but that's still soldiering on in a number of low-output versions. I guess the difference there is that the 1.9TDI PD had a maximum output of 160bhp on factory settings, so the 170bhp of the 2.0TDI means you have an advantage. 200bhp from the 2.0TFSI, when you can get 225bhp from the 1.8T on factory settings arguably makes the 2.0TFSI less advantageous.

Just my 2ps - feel free to put me right if you're the owner of a 2.0TFSI!!!

[EddyH]

VAG have released an new version of the 1.8T to replace the 2.0FSI (non turbo), it's already available in Audi's.

[Snapper]

Originally Posted by sworrall

it has been reported on here that theyll be replacing the 2.0 fsi engine with the 1.8t. Nothing about replacing the 2.0tfsi. sounds like cobblers to me.

So what will they put the 1.8T engine into then?

[FTM]

doesnt the new S3 put out a lot of bhp from the 2.0tfsi? 270 brake is it?

[TallioN]

new 1.8T is FSI-technology engine and not the old 1.8T. And this is chepaer than 2.0FSI

[auroan]

Originally Posted by ap0gee

Don't know enough about the technicalities, but there may be some sense in that. From what I gather, the 2.0TFSI is pretty much un-tuneable beyond 'factory settings',

Erm where did you get this info from ????? The TFSI block is very tunable. Just checkout Awesome's Golf GTI. God ... even the std block comes in at least 5 different states of tune.

[twonks]

Originally Posted by FTM

doesnt the new S3 put out a lot of bhp from the 2.0tfsi? 270 brake is it?

Yes, but afaik it also used a bigger turbo than the standard 2.0 tfsi.

I for one can't imagine the VW group replacing the 2.0 with a 1.8 as this could be viewed as a step backwards in marketing terms.

[Dr Zoidberg]

There is a new 1.8T coming soon to replace the existing 150 bhp 2.0 FSI engine.
It is a 160 bhp version and is an FSI engine , so it's basically a smaller capacity version of the 2.0T in the VRS.
It won't be replacing the 2.0 litre engine and will appear in the 4x4 octys I believe

[ap0gee]

Originally Posted by auroan

Erm where did you get this info from ????? The TFSI block is very tunable. Just checkout Awesome's Golf GTI. God ... even the std block comes in at least 5 different states of tune.

I'm just repeating people's thoughts from when the Mk2 Octy vRS came out. FWIW, I remember folk saying how it wouldn't be possible to increase the output above the stock 197bhp through the use of a remap alone, whereas the 1.8T in the Mk1 vRS could be tuned to t'other side of 200bhp without having to start replacing / upgrading parts. So, yes, you're right, the 2.0TFSI can be tuned, but I gather it's nowhere near as easy as for the 1.8T.

Like you say, Awesome have been doing work on a couple of Golf GTI-based projects, but then I don't know what they've got the power up to compared to their 1.8T A4 Avant that's got 340bhp. I know Hesse & Oettinger can get 350bhp from the 2.0TFSI in the TT when a similar amount of work is done to what Awesome have done to their A4, but then that's 3% more power from an 11% bigger engine capacity. So, yes, I concede that the 2.0TFSI can be tuned, but I still hold that it's not as easy as it was for the 1.8T. It comes back to my point of whether there's any real advantage to the 2.0TFSI over and above the 1.8T.

But now Dr Z's been cleared up the future of the 1.8T, there's not much point in arguing further...

[auroan]

hmmm I beg to differ, but don't want to take this thread off course. I'd happily state why is the thread starter is ok with this.

[DanGB]

Originally Posted by ap0gee

I'm just repeating people's thoughts from when the Mk2 Octy vRS came out. FWIW, I remember folk saying how it wouldn't be possible to increase the output above the stock 197bhp through the use of a remap alone, whereas the 1.8T in the Mk1 vRS could be tuned to t'other side of 200bhp without having to start replacing / upgrading parts. So, yes, you're right, the 2.0TFSI can be tuned, but I gather it's nowhere near as easy as for the 1.8T.

Like you say, Awesome have been doing work on a couple of Golf GTI-based projects, but then I don't know what they've got the power up to compared to their 1.8T A4 Avant that's got 340bhp. I know Hesse & Oettinger can get 350bhp from the 2.0TFSI in the TT when a similar amount of work is done to what Awesome have done to their A4, but then that's 3% more power from an 11% bigger engine capacity. So, yes, I concede that the 2.0TFSI can be tuned, but I still hold that it's not as easy as it was for the 1.8T. It comes back to my point of whether there's any real advantage to the 2.0TFSI over and above the 1.8T.

But now Dr Z's been cleared up the future of the 1.8T, there's not much point in arguing further...

Well there is point, becuase of the misinformation your giving about the 2.0T FSI.
Its just as easy to tune it.

The 2.0T FSI comes in various guises.

170, 185hp, 197hp, 220hp engines come with the k03s turbo,
and the 230, 240, 265 engines come with a k04 turbo.

All The k04 based engines can easily be remapped past 300 with no other mods. and the k03s based ones to 250.

Fitting a GT28RS71 turbo you can get 400hp (using strengthened internals) or 350 with standard internals.

[ap0gee]

Fair enough, I bow to your better knowledge. It does beg the question, though, of why the 'resurrected' 1.8T and 1.9TDI PD engines are only used in their lower-output versions nowadays...

[Snapper]

Originally Posted by auroan

hmmm I beg to differ, but don't want to take this thread off course. I'd happily state why is the thread starter is ok with this.

Crack on mate, it's all interesting stuff.

[Snapper]

Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg

There is a new 1.8T coming soon to replace the existing 150 bhp 2.0 FSI engine.
It is a 160 bhp version and is an FSI engine , so it's basically a smaller capacity version of the 2.0T in the VRS.
It won't be replacing the 2.0 litre engine and will appear in the 4x4 octys I believe

Nice one Dr Z. Where did you get that info and is it gen?

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Snapper

Crack on mate, it's all interesting stuff.

Cool, ok

Firstly VAG havn't resurrected the 1.8T. The engine is a TFSI. The engine is a new design and is actually an almost carbon copy of the 2.0TFSI but with a smaller bore/stroke. VAG are bringing back turbo engines due to there higher effiencies and lower CO2 output. The 1.8TFSI has a lower CO2 output but higher power/torque than the 2.0FSI.

The argument against harder to tune doesn't wash. The old 1.8T has been around for a long time. Thus tuners have had time to develop products compared to the 2.0TFSI. I bet the amount of tuning application avail 3 years after the 1.8T came out in mainstream VWs was comparable to current TFSI tuning applications.

[storm monkey]

Originally Posted by ap0gee

Fair enough, I bow to your better knowledge. It does beg the question, though, of why the 'resurrected' 1.8T and 1.9TDI PD engines are only used in their lower-output versions nowadays...

Its all down to emissions versus economics! The new 160 1.8TFSI will be as clean as or cleaner than the 150 2.0FSI, and will have a cost advantage. Essentially, its easier/cheeper for VAG to meet standards with a turbo engine, than a non turbo. Hence the introduction of the 150 1.4 Turbo supercharged unit in the golf GT.

As for the diesels, again, same issue. The 130 1.9TDI didn't meet the latest emissions, notr did the 115 bhp variant, but the 105 did. The 2.0 PD does meet current emissions at 140ps, and with a DPF, at 170ps. The 1.9tdi will be a cheaper engine, so better to fit that in lower spec form than a detuned 2.0PD.

Phil

[ap0gee]

^^ Ah-ha!!!

[Shane]

Originally Posted by auroan

The engine is a TFSI. The engine is a new design and is actually an almost carbon copy of the 2.0TFSI but with a smaller bore/stroke. VAG are bringing back turbo engines due to there higher effiencies and lower CO2 output. The 1.8TFSI has a lower CO2 output but higher power/torque than the 2.0FSI.

From the Czech skoda website



The 150Bhp 2.0FSi
and




The 160Bhp 1.8TFSi

There is more torque and more power in the 1.8, and it takes lower octane fuel.
The emissions and fuel economy also appear to be better on the TSI, but that might be because the 2.0FSI is an Auto.

BTW according to the "1.6FSI auto" and "1.6FSI manual" data sheets; both graphs are the same, allowing us the comparison.

Originally Posted by storm monkey

The new 160 1.8TFSI will be as clean as or cleaner than the 150 2.0FSI, and will have a cost advantage.

Phil

Sorry, meant to put this in as well, Phil prompted me to post the graphs