DSG and the handbrake

[brackenrigg]

I have a 2.0TDI with a DSG gearbox.

I prefer to use the handbrake when stationary at night to avoid dazzling the driver behind with my brake lights. However, if I switch from the footbrake to the handbrake, the engine behaves as if it is straining against something - it starts to run jumpily and at least once has stalled. Also, if I turn the engine off with the gearbox in drive and the handbrake on, the car seems to sit back, again as if it had been straining against something.

I have seen suggestions on this forum that, if you use the handbrake with the engine running, the clutch doesn't disengage fully. This would certainly explain the behaviour of my car. However, if this is true, I am amazed (1) that VW/Skoda can produce a car that behaves like this and (2) that there is no mention of it in the manual.

Does anybody have a definitive answer to this?

Thanks for any help,

Chris

[woodenspatulas]

every auto ive ever driven does what your saying. but he dsg does it allot less than most imoa.

i have to say its my own preference to pop the handbrake on and put the box into N while stationary.

[brackenrigg]

But none of the other automatics that I have driven have had a clutch like the DSG.

The strange thing about the DSG is the different behaviour when using the handbrake compared with the footbrake.

However, I am going to play safe and start moving it into neutral as you do.

Chris

[Brian W.]

Originally Posted by brackenrigg

I have a 2.0TDI with a DSG gearbox.

I prefer to use the handbrake when stationary at night to avoid dazzling the driver behind with my brake lights. However, if I switch from the footbrake to the handbrake, the engine behaves as if it is straining against something - it starts to run jumpily and at least once has stalled. Also, if I turn the engine off with the gearbox in drive and the handbrake on, the car seems to sit back, again as if it had been straining against something.

I have seen suggestions on this forum that, if you use the handbrake with the engine running, the clutch doesn't disengage fully. This would certainly explain the behaviour of my car. However, if this is true, I am amazed (1) that VW/Skoda can produce a car that behaves like this and (2) that there is no mention of it in the manual.

Does anybody have a definitive answer to this?

Thanks for any help,

Chris

Does your car have the Hill Hold assist feature?


Could this be some weird anomoly of cars that are equipped with this feature.

I have a 2007 Octavia with the same engine and gearbox, I'm going try and replicate your problem.

[Exhausted]

brackenrigg I agree 100%

I always put the car into N when stopped and just before the traffic starts moving - on with the foot brake then into D and off we go. Smooth fast pull away ensues.

[brackenrigg]

Originally Posted by Brian W.

Does your car have the Hill Hold assist feature?


Could this be some weird anomoly of cars that are equipped with this feature.

I have a 2007 Octavia with the same engine and gearbox, I'm going try and replicate your problem.

No, I don't have Hill Hold.

Chris

[slider]

Originally Posted by brackenrigg

But none of the other automatics that I have driven have had a clutch like the DSG.

The strange thing about the DSG is the different behaviour when using the handbrake compared with the footbrake.

However, I am going to play safe and start moving it into neutral as you do.

Chris

using the foot brake disengages the clutch, therefore engine is at rest.

Applying the handbrake when the car is in drive means that it is straining against the clutch all the time - this is bad for the car and should not be done - alway knock it into neutral or park.

[runboy]

The DSG isn't a traditional auto. It has clutches that work in conjunction with the brake when in D.

You come to a halt - you should leave your foot on the brake when in drive. When you want to move you take your foot off the brake and the DSG clutch comes up and away you go. So you can imagine what happens if you come to a halt in drive then apply the handbrake and release the footbrake - the clutch comes up but the car can't move because the handbrake is on. You would never do this in a geared car - can you imagine riding the clutch for 5 minutes in a geared car!

I'm sure I read that if you do sit with the handbrake on and in drive in a DSG car, eventually the gearbox will disengage to prevent overheating. I don't know what happens then!

If you want to not use the footbrake in traffic, stick it in N then you can put the handbrake on and release the footbrake.

Interesting point about the manual - I can't get to mine and I wonder what it says...

[brackenrigg]

I have been through my manual twice, and the 05/06 supplement that came with it.

I can find nothing in the manual either way - it neither tells you that you can or should use the handbrake when stopped in Drive, nor does it tell you that you should not. All the references to using the brake when stopped in D refer to the footbrake only. The handbrake is only referred to when talking about parking or starting off from P/N.

Does anybody have access to a VW handbook that covers the DSG gearbox?

Chris

[brackenrigg]

I have been going through a google search on this problem. The same question has been raised on several VW forums without a definitive answer. One poster was advised by a VW engineer that applying the handbrake disengaged the clutch on a DSG gearbox and that you should never shift to N when stopped temporarily. However, the poster did not believe the engineer and continued shifting to N.

Chris

[Exhausted]

I have just checked my handbook for MY08 Octavia DSG.

Stopping for a Short Time

"The selector lever position N does not have to be selected when stopping for a short time, such as at cross roads. It is sufficient to hold the vehicle stationary using the foot brake. The engine can, however, be allowed just to idle."

ALSO

Under WARNING
When the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary, it is necessary to hold the car with the brake pedal in all positions of the selector lever (except P and N) since the power transmission is never completely interrupted, also not when the engine is idling - the vehicle "creeps".

So it agrees with my sentiments. If you want to use the hand brake and don't want to sit with the brake lights on - stick it N.

[Moh Kohn]

There seems to be a many on here that the DSG gearbox is there first with an automatic clutch.

I can not understand the need to put the handbrake on when temporarily stopping at a junction, brake lights don't (or shouldn't) dazzle those following you. It is much easier for you and your car to just use the foot brake for junctions, your car has been designed with this method of operation as have virtually all automatics made. In the US where automatics are King, the "parking" brake is very hard to use in the situations listed in this thread.

The only time I can see use of the handbrake needed whilst on your journey is to stop roll back on an incline if you do not have the hill hold function.

PS isn't English odd, its handbrake but not footbrake!

[Dook]

You really need the Auto Hold/Hill Assist function with the DSG box. I have it on my DSG Passat, and it is brilliant. With the function on, stop at a junction, leave in D, the handbrake engages automatically (and the DSG clutch disengages). When you need to move off, just press the accelerator - the handbrake disengages, and away you go. DONT get a DSG box without it! Just remember to disengage it when trying to manouevre into a parking slot, or you might be looking at an expensive repair bill

[johnpritt]

Originally Posted by Moh Kohn

PS isn't English odd, its handbrake but not footbrake!

So I'm the only one old enough to remember when it was called the footbrake? Uh-oh. Does a zimmer frame fit easily in the boot?

[VRSPhil]

Not only do brake lights dazzle the driver behind (I find it really irritating when sitting in traffic at night, behind someone who sits with their foot on the brake), but you also run the risk of warping your discs if you sit in traffic with the foot brake on.

[Exhausted]

Originally Posted by Moh Kohn

There seems to be a many on here that the DSG gearbox is there first with an automatic clutch.

I can not understand the need to put the handbrake on when temporarily stopping at a junction, brake lights don't (or shouldn't) dazzle those following you. It is much easier for you and your car to just use the foot brake for junctions, your car has been designed with this method of operation as have virtually all automatics made. In the US where automatics are King, the "parking" brake is very hard to use in the situations listed in this thread.

The only time I can see use of the handbrake needed whilst on your journey is to stop roll back on an incline if you do not have the hill hold function.

PS isn't English odd, its handbrake but not footbrake!

Well Moh Kohn is it safe to assume that you don't live in the UK? If you don't live in the UK you might not appreciate how busy our roads are.

The Manual says there is no need to put in D at crossroads. I'm afraid that most of our crossroads have long queues at busy times. Holding the car in D with the foot brake is an unfriendly act for the car behind in the queue especially now the dark evenings are with us.

[Toneboy]

I normally hold the vehicle on the handbrake whilst in Drive and have found no problem with say traffic lights or road junctions.

When you do this the vehicle's nose will climb up as it attempts to push forward and then you will notice it drops down again.

All I have to do on take off is apply a small amount of gas as I let the handbrake off and you get a fully controlled take off.

If there is a long delay eg those bloody temporary road work lights then I will place it in Neutral.

I think I would find keep knocking the lever into neutral a bit dangerous, especially on a slope, forget it is in neutral and back you go. No I can not think the DSG box was designed to be required to return to Neutral at every stop, it defeats the object of having such a transmission.

[patnmand]

The fundamental difference between DSG and normal auto is the clutch. In a normal auto there's no wear caused by leaving it in 'D' with the handbrake on - but the car will still be trying to creep forward. In a DSG it doesn't know (unless you've got hill hold) whether you're stopped at the lights (in which case it should disengage) or about to try a hill start (in which case it shouldn't).

As I understand it it's only the footbrake that disengages the DSG clutch. Therefore your best bet is to rely on the footbrake for short stops, and put it into N and apply the handbrake for longer ones, no? I have to confess I do the same with my wife's Yaris auto, as I don't like the idea of the car trying to move forward when I've got the handbrake on.

Just some thoughts!