What will common rail do to vRS???

[birds town]

Hi,
Just had a test drive in a vRS TDi, went in thinking petrol, dealer only had diesel demo and after a short run, have definitely gone over to the dark side – never drove a diesel with such brutal acceleration (or ability to scare the bajesus out of unsuspecting test pilots ) and thanks to the Irish budget this week, won’t be bankrupted trying to run it…

Thing is, I’m not quite ready to buy yet and by the time I am, the PD lump should have been replaced by the new common rail jobbie. Been reading magazine reviews of VW’s with the lump, which rave about the improved refinement and smoother power delivery – all great, particularly as I spend about a third of my daily commute trickling in traffic BUT I’m worried that “smoother” spells the end of that ‘wow’ moment when the turbo’s fully spun up and you get hurled back in the seat. I’m sure the new motor will be every bit as rapid but I don’t know if it will feel it and that’s the bit that left me grinning like a loony toon

So, a question to any vRS TDi owners out there: would you be happy to trade some of that 2000rpm kick in the back for a bit more refinement and a little more urge before the turbo kicks in? Would it make the car better for everyday driving, even if it didn’t feel as special when you toe it?

Sorry if this seems like a daft question, but had to ask (sooooo much money to spend just to get it wrong - could always get the petrol )

[anonymouse]

I think, as they also say, it will be quieter - a big bonus is the injector replacement cost should be a lot lower as they will then become purely injectors and not a combined (expensive) pump and injector unit that also requires a special and more expensive oil.

[johnjohnhealy]

My Mondeo ST is common rail, you still get the big diesel torque shove in the back!

[Basil]

The real plus is that uprated injectors should be far far cheaper - easier to mod, lol!

[Jonno VRs]

Has it even been confirmed that the current Octy VRs will get the common rail diesel unit? I'd imagine it will continue to come with the PD unit until a new Octavia comes out...

[cheezemonkhai]

If you want a kick in the back you need a 1.9 or even better a 2.1 XUDt I loved it when the turbo kick in with them.

Nothing, nothing, nothing, OMFG and time to change gear

If you are unsure about common rail go drive a 2.0 HDI/TDCI MK II focus or Citroen C4.

The engine is only 140PS, but the kick it gave made it feel like the PD170. Much quieter too. That should give you a good idea as to what you can expect from a CR unit in any future octy.

[Dr Zoidberg]

It's not so simple to say that one type of engine means more or less of a diesel surge as either type can be tuned by the manufacturers to drive the way they think is best.

Honda's diesel's are common rail , but feel more petrol-like in use than most others.

[Babs]

the whole of the VAG group will be looking to change to common rail over the next year or so

[cheezemonkhai]

Originally Posted by Dr Zoidberg

It's not so simple to say that one type of engine means more or less of a diesel surge as either type can be tuned by the manufacturers to drive the way they think is best.

Honda's diesel's are common rail , but feel more petrol-like in use than most others.

You are of course correct, I was making the point that CR engines can give that massive thump....

Anyway I'm still a fan of IDI dervs, much smoother

[dstev2000]

Best thing to do is wait for the first Audi model with the 2.0 CR unit and take it for a test drive. It will be the same CR engine that will go in the vRS whenever that may be.

[johnjohnhealy]

Originally Posted by Basil

The real plus is that uprated injectors should be far far cheaper - easier to mod, lol!

How much do PD injectors cost?

The Mondeo's Delphi injectors aren't exactly cheap!!

[VRS195]

I'll wait for the 3.0 CR-TDI as ABT'd in the A5



The Abt AS5 uses a tweaked version of Audi's 3.0-litre TDI A5.
Horsepower is up from 240 to 300 BHP. The torque is a tarmac ripping 442 lbft!!

Peak torque is available from 2,400 rpm, 0-60 mph in 5.3 seconds on the way to a 164 mph top speed.

[cheezemonkhai]

nice

[06octy]

The PD engine is being killed off as it can't meet the ever improving emissions targets.

My Mondeo ST is common rail, you still get the big diesel torque shove in the back!

- if you've ever driven a BMW 4 pot diseasal you'll find there isn't and they feel much slower than VAG equivalents even though on paper they are quicker.

My friend who has a 523i and a 140 TDi Octy was thinking about changing his 5er for another diesel. He test drove a 320d - little bit quicker than the Octy on paper - and thought it felt much slower. Its all down to the 'big bang' of the PD engines in my opinion.

[Exhausted]

PD does have a reliability advantage over common rail as there is no common high pressure pump. In the Peugeot/Citroen HDi this pump pressures the common accumulator rail to 1350 bars - approx 20250 psi. This is the pressure in the pipework leading to the injectors. This is a highly dangerous pressure to work with and a leak can cause personal injury.

These pumps are generally reliable but if one does let go then you are talking serious money. They are prone to go if misfuelled with petrol - even if tank drained and system cleaned. Absolute cleanliness is a must too when dealing with the fuel system.

If you have a company car then this really doesn't matter but if you are a private motorist like me it does!

There are some horrific HP pump stories on Ford and Peugeot / Citroen forums.

I'm an ex Citroen HDi driver and decided that the PD system had distinct advantages over common rail. Skoda housed the PD engine in a competent and cost effective way - that's why I'm here I have to say that I am most happy with the move.

[auroan]

My Dad's old 406 HDI HP pump when't when he had it. Over a grand for it to be fixed.

[bahnstormer vrs]

I like the somewhat gruff growly nature of my TDI vRS (PD); gives the car some character.

[Scottiepaul]

I agree on CR HP Pumps. When choosing my vRS I was very close to buying a mundaneo ST. Colleage was running one and I was impressed by its drivability and smoothness compared to the PD lump, but it never felt as quick even though with its overboost it has more torque on paper. However the HP pump went, turbo went, flywheel went and new clutch required all in a month £2.5k bill and no car for best part of 6 weeks while parts were on order. Safe to say I went for the vRS, and although it certainly lacks in refinement, it always makes me smile - 07 with 17k on, and apart from noisey rear bearings or tyres (see lots of other threads - will be investigated at first service in a couple of weeks) and the well reported part throttle judder at low revs, it has been bulletproof.

[johnjohnhealy]

Well my mundaneo ST TDCi is approaching 100k now, and has been flawless, cant say the same for my Skoda, but hey!

The mondeo may have more torque, but it's only 155BHP so theoretically it should be slower, all this rubbish diesel drivers go on about having loads of torque is cr*p, bhp is what counts!

As for Auroan's dad paying a grand for a HDI fuel pump, basically he's been turned over, I've done loads of HDI fuel pumps and they're only a couple hundred quid fitted.

[Exhausted]

Originally Posted by johnjohnhealy

Well my mundaneo ST TDCi is approaching 100k now, and has been flawless, cant say the same for my Skoda, but hey!

The mondeo may have more torque, but it's only 155BHP so theoretically it should be slower, all this rubbish diesel drivers go on about having loads of torque is cr*p, bhp is what counts!

As for Auroan's dad paying a grand for a HDI fuel pump, basically he's been turned over, I've done loads of HDI fuel pumps and they're only a couple hundred quid fitted.

I can't believe that you can fit a high pressure pump for only £200. The best price I can find to buy the pump alone is over £600 plus VAT.

Is it fair to assume that you are referring to the low pressure pump which lives in the fuel tank? These are indeed most unreliable and £200 sounds about right.