Reassure me....Skoda vRS Revo

[TeMpTeD]

Hi guys,

Please allow me to first of all introduce myself to your informative forum!

Hello

I'm on the brink of buying a Fabia vRS after owning a '98 Civic VTi-S for a year and a half. Performance was great, but fuel economy when using car for work wasn't!

I've been to look at an '04 plate at a local dealer and was surprised when he told me that he thinks it may have been 'remapped'. Now I'm not really into the tuning scene much myself and so my ignorance is my biggest problem right now.

I'm trying to read frantically as much info as I can get, but right now it is a big unknown subject and I would rather ask if I may so that my mind can be set to rest.

As far as I know, the car itself has not been modified in terms of air filter, exhaust etc - so therefore from what I have read, this would imply that a 'Software Re-map' has been implemented. My biggest concern is that the re-map will cause the engine parts to fail prematurely through use? Obviously if this is the case I would rather not buy the car in its current state.

My other query is regarding the drivability of the car. I read a thread a few moments ago where someone was asking how they should drive their new re-mapped vehicle - although I believe it was a stage 2 or 3. This part I don't fully understand yet. I would just want to drive the car how I would drive any car - once warm, if I want to rag it I will rag it. Does the re-map mean I can't do this like normal?

Finally, the salesman assured me that the re-map is indistinguishable from a normal ECU code in terms of their diagnostic equipment etc. Thinking in terms of insurance troubles should it be written off or whatever. Obviously I would prefer the car to remain 'standard' for all intensive purposes ideally. I've got a modded car now and it's difficult with insurance. The 'Switch' I read about on the Revo website seems to plug in somewhere, but I just wanted to make sure this means that wires aren't left trailing which would tell an insurance company that it's been re-mapped etc?

I'm so sorry for the elementary questions, but I'm very new to this and am having a little difficulty taking it all in right now! Before anyone says it, please don't tell me to go and buy a normal vRS, as I really like the idea of this car being closer in performance to my Civic but with double the fuel economy!

Thanks in advance,

Tempted.

[Dave_Fox]

Hi. How long are you planning on keeping the car? Eventually parts will start failing earlier than if the car had a standard map. But if the remapped car is driven the right way it shouldn't happen that early on. Clutch/turbo are probably put under the most strain.

Being remapped, the car has more torque and the standard DMS and clutch cant cope if you're booting it under 2.5k rpm. You learn to drive round it but whats the point if you can't use all the performance My old vRS had a Revo remap and I ended up buying a switch to set it back to standard whenever I wanted, then back on for a play. Better for the engine etc...

[Joff]

The car comes with a switch as standard, normally found underneath your right foot.

[Dave_Fox]

Originally Posted by Joff

The car comes with a switch as standard, normally found underneath your right foot.

I obviously wasted my money then...!

[Joff]

I'd say so.

[TeMpTeD]

Originally Posted by Dave_Fox

Hi. How long are you planning on keeping the car? Eventually parts will start failing earlier than if the car had a standard map. But if the remapped car is driven the right way it shouldn't happen that early on. Clutch/turbo are probably put under the most strain.

Being remapped, the car has more torque and the standard DMS and clutch cant cope if you're booting it under 2.5k rpm. You learn to drive round it but whats the point if you can't use all the performance My old vRS had a Revo remap and I ended up buying a switch to set it back to standard whenever I wanted, then back on for a play. Better for the engine etc...

Thanks for the insight.

Ideally I'd like to keep the car for about 3 years really, as I'd like a little bit of cheap motoring whilst I save for a house. I'm a little put off by the potential to wreck my new car through abuse without even meaning to. Unless of course you're talking about a fair while before stuff starts to show signs of wear? I can handle slight premature failure, but the potential for sudden failures whilst I'm using it for work don't really appeal much.

Now you mention it, the salesman did mention 'switching it off' if I wasn't happy with the idea, although if I had a bit of extra power available, I think I'd want it on tap at all times!

Is there a standard map that goes onto a Fabia vRS which will yield comparible results for any standard vRS, or would it be tuned as per the customers requirements?

It's all this talk of timings etc that put me off - there's nothing to say that the transmission isn't already knackered from the previous owner, not to mention he may have changed the settings beyond what is considered safe?

[Joff]

There's no reason really why a standard remap (you can typically get generic/standard spec remap or custom ones) would prematurely wear any components so soon if you're just going to be driving it normally (ie, not constantly driving it to it's limits, in which case any car is going to have premature wear and tear).

There's no more danger with this car than any other used car with an unknown history of previous owner's driving styles.

The dealer may just be saying it's possibly got a remap to either sway you into buying a car that's already got a popular upgrade or to distance themselves from any future problems the car may be showing signs of.
As you've said, there's nothing to say the car's already been abused so remap or not it's always a risk.

Is the car unusually cheap for the age/condition? Is the dealer an independent or main Skoda dealer?

Remaps can be identified if the dealer or insurer (in the event of a claim) are serious enough about proving you wrong.

[TeMpTeD]

Originally Posted by Joff

There's no reason really why a standard remap (you can typically get generic/standard spec remap or custom ones) would prematurely wear any components so soon if you're just going to be driving it normally (ie, not constantly driving it to it's limits, in which case any car is going to have premature wear and tear).

There's no more danger with this car than any other used car with an unknown history of previous owner's driving styles.

The dealer may just be saying it's possibly got a remap to either sway you into buying a car that's already got a popular upgrade or to distance themselves from any future problems the car may be showing signs of.
As you've said, there's nothing to say the car's already been abused so remap or not it's always a risk.

Is the car unusually cheap for the age/condition? Is the dealer an independent or main Skoda dealer?

Remaps can be identified if the dealer or insurer (in the event of a claim) are serious enough about proving you wrong.

Hi Joff,

The car is at a main Skoda dealer. The price looks to be about average for a main dealer example.

I've read a little bit more about Revo in the meantime and some of the comments bother me somewhat. Now that you are telling me that an insurance company are able to find out, I'm not overly happy with buying a car that could invalidate my insurance or more importantly a claim in the event of an accident.

Many thanks for your comments, if anyone else has anything to add, please do so.

Thanks

[Dave_Fox]

Originally Posted by Joff

I'd say so.

Ok then.

[Joff]

Originally Posted by TeMpTeD

Now that you are telling me that an insurance company are able to find out, I'm not overly happy with buying a car that could invalidate my insurance or more importantly a claim in the event of an accident.

You are allowed to inform your insurers that the car is remapped. Most if not all should be aware of the procedure by now and not be overly fussed (unless you're insured with SAGA or something ). They may increase your premium by a couple of quid, they might not bother at all.

[Neo_VR]

Fabia vRS on a 53 plate, 92k miles (82k of them with Revo remap) zero mechanical failures and still on original clutch (although i do have a sachs jobbie waiting to go in)

If it is revo, then its a standard uprated map, they are all identical. a dealer doesnt have the tools to detect a remap, however *in theory* a insurer could take the ECU away to be downloaded and checked, although this is highly highly highly infinately unlikely.

in the 3 years ive had my revo, i only turned it off once, which was quite recently because i was worried my clutch would die.. that only lasted about a week because i couldnt do without the power

The main concern with remaps these days is getting warranty work done.. although thats not a problem because theres no warranty left on that car anyway.

you should tell your insurer, because its fraud if you dont.. youll find specialist insurers are very tolerent of remaps etc and will probably just charge an extra 50quid if anything...

[TeMpTeD]

Thanks again for your input.

I'm trying to find out what additional cost (if any) my insurer might put onto my policy, but they need to know what the BHP gain is from the said modification which means I'd need to rolling road it just to insure it.

I had pretty much given up on the idea , but I keep thinking about it and the performance when I test drove it was pretty mental for a diesel - which I was very pleased about .

I guess I read some bad reviews and panicked a bit. It's just an unknown and worries me. The fact that it would need to be driven differently also bothers me a little, as with my Civic I can rag it however I want once warm.

The saga continues it seems.

[Joff]

I'm not sure how they would assess the increase in premium based on power gain of a modification. Power isn't a measure of the vehicle's risk, at least not by itself.

Rolling road figures are pretty worthless anyway given that they can vary depending on the weather and be adjusted by the operator to suit.
Go to your local rolling road and tell them you want the car to have a power graph of no more than 135bhp and you'll get one.

Also, why would a remapped car need to be driven any differently? You just get in, turn it over and drive off.

[TeMpTeD]

I read a few posts about driving it differently from low revs once re-mapped. Although this could apply to diesels in general having only ever driven a couple.

Seems it wasn't to be, as a quick call to the insurance company with the claimed figures from Revo's website of 170bhp didn't do the premium any favours. I'd have to pay an additional £50 to my current premium if changing from the Civic to the Revo'd vRS which originally cost me £800 odd last December (also some crap about admin fees, bah!)

It sounded like my premium would be similar next year too which is part of the reason I want rid of the Civic - because I want a proper insurance premium. I've had a quote for circa £300 for a bog standard vRS, so double that for a remapped ECU seems somewhat harsh. Maybe my insurance company have become a little complacent, I'm not sure TBH but I'm stuck with them until December unless I want to lose even more money.

[Joff]

Stick it out for a few more months and put the feelers out again when your insurance is up for renewal. There's plenty of decent insurers (not those that just take your money) that are mod-friendly and there's always going to be Fabia's around for you to buy

[TeMpTeD]

I had a better plan which involved getting a vRS sometime in the near future which involves buying a standard one and then putting the feelers out for proper insurance in December.

heh heh, get in

I've got a feeling I'll be having it re-mapped at some point though given how it drove, it was crazy paving!

[gord]

Had mine Revo'd for 18 months now,no probs. Best £500 i ever spent.

[mathepac]

Originally Posted by TeMpTeD

...I've been to look at an '04 plate at a local dealer and was surprised when he told me that he thinks it may have been 'remapped'...

...Finally, the salesman assured me that the re-map is indistinguishable from a normal ECU code in terms of their diagnostic equipment etc...
Tempted.

I don't want to revisit the advice and suggestions already given by more experienced forum members, but the salesman's pitch sounds a bit strange to me and I'd be inclined to shop elsewhere. He "thinks" this and "assured" you of that; WTF is he at?

If you liked the car, and based on personal experience I'd be amazed if you didn't, you may have a number of options, given as previously stated that with a used car the driving habits of previous owners are unknown anyway.

Offer to buy the car if he:

a) "De-maps" it at his expense and sells it as standard
and
b) Produces a "130 bhp" dyno test to "prove" it
and
c) Offers a decent after-sales (written!) warranty

other option

a) As the seller of a modified, as your insurance premium will increase, reduces his price correspondingly
and
b) Produces a dyno test for your insurers
and
c) as above

Legally I guess he is bound to declare what he "knows" about the car but I don't understand where what he "thinks" fits.

If you are uncomfortable with the car, find a standard car and go for a spin; you won't be disappointed. There are some superb low-mileage unmodified cars on sale from this and other sites with transferrable manufacturer's warranties still intact.

[revomike]

Originally Posted by TeMpTeD

I had a better plan which involved getting a vRS sometime in the near future which involves buying a standard one and then putting the feelers out for proper insurance in December.

heh heh, get in

I've got a feeling I'll be having it re-mapped at some point though given how it drove, it was crazy paving!

If it was me , Buy the Select + swicth and turn the revo off.
When your ready and happy to pay a bit more then switch it back on.. Simple..

Or just dont tell them lol.............. (did I say that out loud !)