How to increase your DIESEL tank capacity

[Fab vRS]

I can't see this mod being insurance friendly!

If you REALLY need the extra 5 litres of diesel for a long journey, why not:

(a) fill up with V-Power for that journey

or

(b) fill up a 5 litre can and stick it in the boot

or

(c) drive less enthusiastically, thus improving mpg

or

(d) all of the above?

Just a thought!

[Tink]

(a) they dont make diesel V-power (as far as i'm aware)

(b) you can't fill up two things in the same transaction at a petrol station

[DGW]

Originally Posted by Tink

(a) they dont make diesel V-power (as far as i'm aware)

Shell does and I could have filled up with some today.


Shell V-Power diesel goes on sale - What Car?

[gillywibble]

Originally Posted by OctaviaBuzz

I think Gillywibble should try riding a bike through a petrol station and riding through diesel spills.

I have, many times. Just because I don't own a mtorcycle now doesn't mean I haven't in the past.

Why the rant? I'm just making the point that it's irrelevant for the purposes of 'proving' how good this modification is supposed to be.

[WaveyDavey]

Originally Posted by Fab vRS

I can't see this mod being insurance friendly!

If you REALLY need the extra 5 litres of diesel for a long journey, why not:

(a) fill up with V-Power for that journey

or

(b) fill up a 5 litre can and stick it in the boot

or

(c) drive less enthusiastically, thus improving mpg

or

(d) all of the above?

Just a thought!

Why would it not be insurance friendly??? Would the insurance company cancel my insurance if i fill my car to the brim everytime with or without the expansion tank method???? I think not.

It's actually about an extra 2 gallons you can get in the expansion tank, Or that's what i usually get in, which equates to approx 100 miles extra range be it driven enthusiastically or not which is a very useful amount when a round trip to work is 50 miles like my own. I usually get in the region of 500 miles to a tank. (And that's with the dragon box fitted and set to maximum power setting). The one time the mrs filled the car up i only got around 400 or so. I can't see what the problem is..... As mentioned previously the petrol cap makes a seal so stopping any spillage.... And if you can't manage to put the cap back on then there really must be issued raised about the persons abilities to be in control of a car in the first place.


Looking at your points raised you could have a similar discussion about people who just put £10-£20 of fuel in their car the same time each week and those like myself who fill up a tankfull at a time if you think about it.


So in brief.....

a) I already use Millers sport IV which works out cheaper than V power diesel with the same perks so don't need V power.

b) Why should i when there's a 10 litre or so version built into the fuel tank already?

c)I've found whether i drive carefully or enthusiastically the difference by the end of the tank is at most 20 or so miles in range.





Cheers

Dave.

[WaveyDavey]

Originally Posted by OctaviaBuzz

I think Gillywibble should try riding a bike through a petrol station and riding through diesel spills. Its hard enough to walk on some petrol station forecourts in motorcycle boots, never mind while balanced on a bike.
Diesel spills KILL motorcyclists. Its quite simple a concept. diesel is just OIL, and it doesn't evaporate like spilled petrol does!
I dont even fill my Octy diesel to the brim without this mod, as i've had the sh*te scared out of me when hitting diesel at relatively low speeds (ie 20mph) so Gd help me if i encounter it on a bend at 60mph!

</rant>

Why is this mod going to make me more likely to spill diesel on the garage forecourt?????

Also with the fuelcap in place and the tank sealed how is it going to put diesel on the road????


If there are relevant explanations then feel free to rant but personally i can't see any.


Just to make clear...... I'm not a biker but i work in an office full of them and not one has raised any concerns regarding this mod when i've spoken to them about it.






Cheers

Dave.

[rougemont]

Originally Posted by CappoRob

Does this work for the Octavia VRs TDi? I have a Fabia VRs which I am trading in soon and have always filled the expansion tank using the nozzle on the button trick. It would be nice to get extra in my Octavia when I get it as I do some big mileages.

Thanks for any help.

I changed my fabia vrs for an oct vrs and unfortunately this mod does not apply, in fact I probably could get as much in the fabia. However still manage to get over 500 miles on a tank and at my age I need to stop before the car does!Would also highly recommend the performance torque remap, really smoothes engine out and not that expensive compared to the likes of superchips. Done 5k no dpf issues , and surprised a few 'fast' cars with its mid range grunt

[Lummox]

Originally Posted by WaveyDavey

Also with the fuelcap in place and the tank sealed how is it going to put diesel on the road????

The fuel tank isn't sealed, it cant be or as soon as you fired up the fuel pump it would suck the tank in as no air could be drawn in. So if its brimmed eventually the fuel could in theory back its way from the filler neck down the breather line and to atmostphere. This is why you cant' do the mod on the petrol models as the breather line is connected back through the inlet system via the charcoal canister, this floods with fuel and knackers it.

[Tom_vRS]

No, but the fuel tank vents to the filler neck, so when the cap is on the system IS sealed

[Lummox]

Originally Posted by Tom_vRS

No, but the fuel tank vents to the filler neck, so when the cap is on the system IS sealed

Not sure on that tbh mate.

Any tank needs a vent or it will never empty. If you pump a fluid out and its not vented then the pump will just implode the tank. Seen it happen when the breather lines get blocked with crud.

Like your brake fluid reservoir, thus there is a way that moisture gets in and you have to change the brake fluid.

[Tom_vRS]

Hmmm, but my interpretation is that the tank vents into the filler neck, so the system balances in that way.



Of course you are right - if diesel is used by the engine, then where is the air coming from to replace that volume of fuel in the tank???

[Td-eye]

The expansion tank vents back into the filler neck on my Fabia & Golf and is done via a one way valve which is there to prevent fuel getting back down the vent pipe into the expansion tank should the tank be brimmed. That valve can however, be released by moving the nipple at the neck of the filler, allowing the expansion tank to be filled by releasing the air trapped in there or, by removing the valve completely (a "ventectomy" ) which allows the air to escape from the expansion tank automatically when filling.

The Fabia in common with the Golf & presumably many other V.A.G. vehicles also has a vented filler cap which keeps the fuel tank closed relative to the atmosphere, but permits ambient air to enter the fuel tank to compensate for the low pressure which may be caused in the fuel tank due to fuel being sucked in by the fuel pump, i.e. it's a "one way" valve allowing air to be drawn in to the tank through the cap.

It is for this reason ie. the air cannot get out via the cap (neither can fuel) that an expansion tank is fitted, this normally leaves an air space (even in a brimmed fuel tank ) which will compress slightly should the fuel in the vehicles tank expand.

Obviously, as soon as you use any fuel from your tank even more air space is created due to air being drawn in through the fuel cap to fill the space previously occupied by fuel.

In diesel engined vehicles the expansion tank can be used as extra storage space for diesel because diesel fuel's co-efficient of expansion is so low that there is virtually no meaningful diesel expansion going to take place in your tank in every day use on this planet.

However, it's a totally different story with petrol which will expand significantly in our climates and so for this reason and also for the reason given by Lummox earlier, this mod should NOT be done on petrol engined vehicles.

This sort of phenomenon will be known to anyone who has ever opened a Jerry can on a hot day that has been brimmed with petrol, there will likely be a significant release of pressure. Doesn't happen with Jerry cans filled with diesel though !

H.T.H.

[foureyes]

Originally Posted by Tink

(b) you can't fill up two things in the same transaction at a petrol station

A mate and myself filled two motorbikes up side by side last weekend... and I've filled up a few fuels cans at the same time as filling my car...

[Lummox]

Originally Posted by Td-eye

The expansion tank vents back into the filler neck on my Fabia & Golf and is done via a one way valve which is there to prevent fuel getting back down the vent pipe into the expansion tank should the tank be brimmed. That valve can however, be released by moving the nipple at the neck of the filler, allowing the expansion tank to be filled by releasing the air trapped in there or, by removing the valve completely (a "ventectomy" ) which allows the air to escape from the expansion tank automatically when filling.

The Fabia in common with the Golf & presumably many other V.A.G. vehicles also has a vented filler cap which keeps the fuel tank closed relative to the atmosphere, but permits ambient air to enter the fuel tank to compensate for the low pressure which may be caused in the fuel tank due to fuel being sucked in by the fuel pump, i.e. it's a "one way" valve allowing air to be drawn in to the tank through the cap.

It is for this reason ie. the air cannot get out via the cap (neither can fuel) that an expansion tank is fitted, this normally leaves an air space (even in a brimmed fuel tank ) which will compress slightly should the fuel in the vehicles tank expand.

Obviously, as soon as you use any fuel from your tank even more air space is created due to air being drawn in through the fuel cap to fill the space previously occupied by fuel.

In diesel engined vehicles the expansion tank can be used as extra storage space for diesel because diesel fuel's co-efficient of expansion is so low that there is virtually no meaningful diesel expansion going to take place in your tank in every day use on this planet.

However, it's a totally different story with petrol which will expand significantly in our climates and so for this reason and also for the reason given by Lummox earlier, this mod should NOT be done on petrol engined vehicles.

This sort of phenomenon will be known to anyone who has ever opened a Jerry can on a hot day that has been brimmed with petrol, there will likely be a significant release of pressure. Doesn't happen with Jerry cans filled with diesel though !

H.T.H.

Couldnt, and didnt say it better myself

[WaveyDavey]

Originally Posted by Td-eye

The expansion tank vents back into the filler neck on my Fabia & Golf and is done via a one way valve which is there to prevent fuel getting back down the vent pipe into the expansion tank should the tank be brimmed. That valve can however, be released by moving the nipple at the neck of the filler, allowing the expansion tank to be filled by releasing the air trapped in there or, by removing the valve completely (a "ventectomy" ) which allows the air to escape from the expansion tank automatically when filling.

The Fabia in common with the Golf & presumably many other V.A.G. vehicles also has a vented filler cap which keeps the fuel tank closed relative to the atmosphere, but permits ambient air to enter the fuel tank to compensate for the low pressure which may be caused in the fuel tank due to fuel being sucked in by the fuel pump, i.e. it's a "one way" valve allowing air to be drawn in to the tank through the cap.

It is for this reason ie. the air cannot get out via the cap (neither can fuel) that an expansion tank is fitted, this normally leaves an air space (even in a brimmed fuel tank ) which will compress slightly should the fuel in the vehicles tank expand.

Obviously, as soon as you use any fuel from your tank even more air space is created due to air being drawn in through the fuel cap to fill the space previously occupied by fuel.

In diesel engined vehicles the expansion tank can be used as extra storage space for diesel because diesel fuel's co-efficient of expansion is so low that there is virtually no meaningful diesel expansion going to take place in your tank in every day use on this planet.

However, it's a totally different story with petrol which will expand significantly in our climates and so for this reason and also for the reason given by Lummox earlier, this mod should NOT be done on petrol engined vehicles.

This sort of phenomenon will be known to anyone who has ever opened a Jerry can on a hot day that has been brimmed with petrol, there will likely be a significant release of pressure. Doesn't happen with Jerry cans filled with diesel though !

H.T.H.

Well said that man.




Cheers

Dave.

[Fab vRS]

Originally Posted by Tink

(a) they dont make diesel V-power (as far as i'm aware)

(b) you can't fill up two things in the same transaction at a petrol station

They sell V-Power at my local Shell garage and I've been using it for about 6 months now

[Fab vRS]

Originally Posted by WaveyDavey

Why would it not be insurance friendly???

Because you are modifying your car AND it is not a 'proven' mod along the lines of adding better wheels/tyres etc.

If you tell your insurance company, 'Oh, and I've just played around with the fuel tank so I can store more in it' do you not think they will (in their very conservative way) think, 'Oh bugger, what the hell does THAT mean?'

Adding leather or bigger wheels or an air intake is one thing, but tinkering with the fuel supply DOES seem at first glance to offer a lot of safety implications.

I'm not saying don't do it; I'm just saying that in their very conservative risk approach, insurance companies are going to be very nervous (through ignorance) if you tell them that you have tinkered with the fuel intake on your car (even if you explain to them EXACTLY what you have done).

Just a thought...

[Fab vRS]

Originally Posted by foureyes

A mate and myself filled two motorbikes up side by side last weekend... and I've filled up a few fuels cans at the same time as filling my car...

You do, of course, fill up your car AND the 5 litre can AT THE SAME TIME, ie one transaction.

[WaveyDavey]

Originally Posted by Fab vRS

Because you are modifying your car AND it is not a 'proven' mod along the lines of adding better wheels/tyres etc.

If you tell your insurance company, 'Oh, and I've just played around with the fuel tank so I can store more in it' do you not think they will (in their very conservative way) think, 'Oh bugger, what the hell does THAT mean?'

Adding leather or bigger wheels or an air intake is one thing, but tinkering with the fuel supply DOES seem at first glance to offer a lot of safety implications.

I'm not saying don't do it; I'm just saying that in their very conservative risk approach, insurance companies are going to be very nervous (through ignorance) if you tell them that you have tinkered with the fuel intake on your car (even if you explain to them EXACTLY what you have done).

Just a thought...

Yes but you don't have to do the mod to actually fill the expansion tank though..... I've not done the mod as to be honest i can't be bothered to take the filler inlet to bits etc.... i just fill the expansion tank by holding the valve/switch in while filling the car.


Where does this leave any insurance queries??? I wouldn't expect to tell my insurance that i fill to the brim everytime i fill up. And in essence i'm doing exactly the same as what happens when the mod is carried out..... Lets face it all this mod does is stop you having to hold the switch while filling up. I'll still just fill to the brim while holding the switch everytime.




Cheers

Dave.

[WaveyDavey]

Originally Posted by Fab vRS

You do, of course, fill up your car AND the 5 litre can AT THE SAME TIME, ie one transaction.

I've seen pairs of bikers fill up together one fills up then replaces the hose then the other picks it up and fills up then they go in and pay.

In fact in busy periods i've filled up then moved the car forward and the person behind me has been filling up before i've even paid.


I was under the impression all garages worked this way nowadays.




Cheers

Dave.