Octavia: Carlsberg don't tune Skoda's, but if they did they would be like this...

[ColinD]

Righty ho, lots of people have been modding their cars and there do seem to be some differences in the routes taken by different people. Some of us have gone through several iterations of mods (especially in terms of suspension and remaps). So what are the conclusions? Well, it will of course depend on budget and what you want from the car so why not have a sort of review of the different alternatives, with their costs and benefits.

Please don’t let the fact that this has been posted by a generic user ID put you off, a lot of thought (along with time and money) has gone into coming up with these findings and this list.

OK, based on our findings to date, lets see what we’ve got towards building the ultimate Octavia:




Engine

Remaps

In terms of performance/cost it’s got to be Jabbasport. May seem harsh to other tuners, but as stated in terms of what you get for your money its got to be the winner. Unlike some, it is a custom remap specifically for your car and mapped to your criteria. Want it to come on boost from 3500 rpm and hold the power to 6500? No problem! Want a map with big mid range torque? No problem! It also helps that the people at Jabba are very helpful and very professional. Booking in advance is necessary, also check on here for group buys and discounts (10% IIRC).

They can be contacted on 01733 211779.

Induction Kits

Bit of a grey area this one, as there seem to be 3 popular kits in use on the Octavia. These are ABD, Dynatwist and Neuspeed. (listed alphabetically). All seem to offer gains in performance, with ABD appearing to give the most, although it is a close run thing. In terms of noise, ABD is the loudest and Dynatwist the quietest.

None of these kits are cheap, but they are an additional shiny bit under the bonnet, and for the performance gains, it's probably one of the last things to do. In fact, you’d probably be just as well off getting a replacement K&N panel and “dremmeling” out the fins in the standard airbox (it’d certainly be cheaper!).

Dump Valves

No extra power and £80+ for one of these – why? Well, some claim it improves throttle response, some buy it because it’s shiny, others because they are paranoid abouit the standard one on a remapped engine. So assuming you decide you want one, which should you get? This time there seems to be a consensus towards 2 brands: the Forge DV07 and the Bailey. Which is better? In truth, neither, they are much of a muchness and “better” than the standard plastic diaphragm one.

Turbo Inlet pipe

2 choices here, Samco or ally. For ease of fitting, connection and robustness, the ABD aluminium one has to be the choice. Not cheap at £150, but their gains are quite substantial in terms of pickup and low/mid range torque. Well worth fitting if you can afford it, makes the car feel much more urgent.

Clutch and flywheel

A good upgrade at £480. The uprated clutch has a lighter feel than the standard one even though it has far more clamping power and will handle the torque of a modified engine much better. At least 3 of us have had trouble with the standard clutch slipping, melting or disintegrating (although these were probably the 3 more extreme members of the community, longest they lasted was about 10k miles). No problems reported with the uprated one, other than a rather unpleasant smell when worked hard. The matching lightened and balanced flywheel that comes in the package makes the engine much more responsive and pick up is much improved, due to its single mass rather than the standard mass. Lighter ones have been tried but were found to be too peaky in normal everyday driving.

Suspension

Several things have been tried in this department and the consensus seems to be KW, if you can afford it. Of the KW variants, either 2 or 3 (3 being the top preference, and the most expensive) are preferred.

Others that have been tried are Leda, Koni and H&R. The Ledas are a competition units and as such are not really suitable for road use as they will need rebuilding every 30k miles. They are best suited to standard RS springs rather than H&R or Eibachs. The Konis are made for the Golf which has a different weight distribution to the Octavia, which can lead to blown rears as they are overworked in this application. There have been at leats 5 sets of blown rear Konis and 2 sets of fronts. H&R springs lower the car (even the RS, so on a std Octavia the drop would be quite large) but don’t give as good a ride / handling compromise. None of us have tried Eibachs yet on the RS so can’t comment on them.

Brakes

Couple of options, at various price levels.

In our opinion, for a normally modified Octavia, the Group N kit from Impreziv offers the “best” upgrade. These have been extensively tested (to date about 150,000 miles including about 11,000 track miles) and to date we’ve had no fade or warping. Braking power is greately improved over the standard setup. Well worth the £450.

Next up would be a complete front brake upgrade to 335mm with 4 pot callipers (from www.godspeed.co.uk ) either Brembo at £650 or AP at £1100. A good upgrade, giving more granularity to the brake feel and even more stopping power. Be aware that replacement disks aren’t cheap, but worth it if you are planning a big turbo upgrade or are a certified lunatic [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Tyres

On this it would seem to be a toss up between 2 or 3 tyres. Most recommended, in our opinion, are Pirelli P Zero Nero or Rosso. Dry grip is exceptional and in the wet they aren’t too shabby. As a more wet weather tyre, Conti Sportcontact or Sportcontact2 are also good, although once below 3mm of tread they can get a bit slippy. Also recommended by some members are the Toyo Proxes, although these wear quite quickly, they are cheap (all things are relative).

Lighting

Phillips Rallye bulbs, 90/100
Bright with a normal beam spread and a fair range on them, exceptional on full beam. Quite like these ones. The only thing I'm not so keen on having driven with the PIAA Platinum Super Whites is the colour. Its like going back to the standard bulbs, albeit much brighter. They have a slight ivory tinge to them. £25.90.

PIAA Platinum Super Whites
Nice bulbs, seem a bit bluish round the edges of the beam pattern, very, very white. Very wide beam spread, not as much range as the Vision PlusFairly bright, they are a 55/60 bulb that alledgedly put out 90/130. That is cobblers, IMHO. Yes, they are better than the standard bulb s, and brighter too, but they are not as bright as the genuine 90/130 bulbs. Poor value for money at £47.

Phillips Vision Plus
A nice bulb. Good range on them and a reasonable spread. Bluer than the PIAA ones. Beam spread not as good as the PIAA ones, but range is better. I'd say, subjectively that they are similar in brightness to the PIAAs. I like these and they are very reassonably priced at £19.50.

Phillips Blue Vision
Bulb actually looks blue. They even look blue in the headlight when switched off. Give a very Xenonish light which I quite like and are very bright (4000k). Don't seem as rangey as the others but give a huge spread of light, which looks all most daylighty. £22.90.

So, what’s the conclusion? Well the verdict of the jury appears to be;

For headlights (H4 type)
Phillips Rallye 130/100s
Phillips Vision Plus
PIAA Superwhite 90/110
Phillips Blue Vision
Standard

In fogs (H3):
Phillips Rallye 100
Phillips Vision Plus
Osram Silver Vision
Bosch All Weather (not as glaring, actually useful in fog rather than as a cornering light)

Others to look (as run by Stuart and Des) at are:

Blue tint headlight bulbs
Part No.7213,H4 type
By Nokia
55/60w > 90/100w upgrade
Cost, £24 per/pair
Supplier, IP

Blue/mirror effect indicator bulbs (front & rear)
Part No. RW3581
By Ring
21w
Cost, £14.99 per/pair
Supplier, Motor World

Sidelights, got to be Phillips Blue Vision.

Basic braking

So you want to upgrade your brakes, but don’t want to fit the full group N kit. So what can you run with standard disks?

Pads
Several choices here, but most of us seem to be running Ferodo DS2500 pads. Part number for the fronts are FCP590H. Approx £100 for the fronts. These last fairly well and give excellent fade resistance along with good friction capabilities, if a little dusty.

If this is a bit too expensive, others to consider are the Pagid Blues, Mintex 1155 and EBC Redstuff. Please don’t use Greenstuff if you plan on doing very fast road work or even the odd trackday, they will either melt, crumble or catch fire (not generally considered to be a good thing).

Fluid
Yes, you should upgrade the fluid. It is recommended that you try and use a Super DOT4 fluid. The better ones of these have a slightly lower dry boiling point (5 C) than DOT5, but their wet boiling point is higher. If you go for DOT5 you will find that you need to change the fluid quite regularly (Castrol SRF for eg is about every 10k and at about £20 for 500ml it gets pricey). Recommended amongst the Super DOT 4 fluids are Silkolene Pro-Race 2000 (from Impreziv) and Castrol RS Super DOT4 (from Halfords).

Hoses
Not worth changing, unless you have to (eg fitting AP callipers) as the standard lines are already steel reinforced (get an old set and try to bend or kink them and you’ll see what I mean).

Other Points

Steve, 225/45 tyres on standard rims are fine. Some have reported problems with rubbing in the following circumstances:

When running larger than 235 section tyres
When dropped too low and then put under heavy load (ie track work) you get rubbing on the rears if running 225. Keep it a reasonable height and there are no problems.

Paul, I avoided commenting on the items you listed, for a couple of reasons.

Although a rear spoiler is of use at the more extreme end of the scale (it has been reported by a couple of people that over 160 the rear end gets a little light and it just gets worse at 170+), for most the downside of slower pick up at 3 figure speeds, the reduced visibility and the reduced economy outweigh the benefit of the wing in everyday usage (unless you are a tart [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] ).

Weight saving is a very important point, especially when you consider that every 5kg of sprung weight is the equivalent of 1 extra horsepower and every 5kg of unsprung weight is the equivalent of 2 BHP.

Denis, seats in the RS get marginal when subjected to high cornering loads, particularly in track conditions. If you are planning on changing your seats, the mounting bracket required is the one for the Mrk IV Golf.
OK, so the above list has got your interest peaked and you want to go further. So what is out there for the more extreme user. In this case that’ll mean running between 3 and 400. Here is where it gets a bit contentious as this is fairly new ground and the opinions are still being formed. This list isn’t as definitive as the one in the first post due to this fact and should be considered as options only – speak to your tuner for their opinions. At the moment there are only 2 companies (that we know of) who have done this for customers cars for road use in the UK.

Gearbox

OK, the standard gearbox has limitations, between 270 and 290lb/ft . This is not adequate for some [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] Also bear in mind that the ECU has a torque limiter in it at 300lb/ft With the gearbox upgrade there are several options:

Cheapest option, that will take about 340 lb/ft is the Audi TT 225 6 speed gearbox. These are available from Jabbasport for £250. To mate these to a FWD Octavia you will need to plate over the transfer case (its easier than removing it). If running a 4x4, leave it open. It will bolt straight on to the engine with no other mods. At the same time as this you will also need to change the driveshafts (one side effect of this is that you will now have more equal length drive shafts  ) . Don’t fit the ones from a TTG as this will entail fitting new wishbones due to their 1” wider track The ones to fit are the ones off the A3 1.8T Quattro. Get them from a scrappy, an Audi dealer or better yet, Quaiffe if you want them to be bombproof. Quaiffe are currently quoting 14 weeks lead time for these. If you have already fitted an uprated clutch and flywheel, be prepared to bin it [img]images/smilies/frown.gif[/img] as the spline sizes are different. Ratios in this aren’t that much different in 1st and 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th are all closer together and 6th is the same as the standard RS.

Another option is to get the standard box strengthened. Not as cheap as it first looks, you are looking at about £1100 for a strengthened gearset and mainshaft. You could at this point put in a longer 5th for better economy. Quaiffe to sella 6 speed kit that fits in the standard gearbox, but that is £1500 + VAT and the fitting kit is another £250 + VAT.

With either of the above, or as a separate option, is the fitting of a LSD. Quaiffe do one at £650 + VAT and fitting. Oh and you need a fitting kit at £250. Worth considering as an option, even without running silly power.

6 speed sequential is available, but at £6500, is out of reach to most. Performance of this box also isn’t that good, especially considering the price.

Big turbo upgrade

2 kits and 3 suppliers, in the UK. Another is being developed by Kim Collins, but they are behind the other 2 suppliers (they have just hit the 300lb/ft mark, whereas the others are past it (last comment based on hearsay, please edit if someone threatens to sue!)

Neither of the 2 kit suppliers have done this on an Octavia – YET. They are Jabbasport and AmD. Jabbasport have done their big turbo conversion on a Golf and some SEATS. The kit isn’t currently available, due to casting issues with the manifold. For these kits you are looking at £3k +

The 3rd supplier is AET . They will sell you a turbo, a manifold (and very nice it is too [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) an adaptor plate that will mate the turbo to your downpipe and injectors. Cost of this is approx £1800 and is readily available. You will need to get it fitted and get it traillered to the mapper of your choice (see the first post for a recommendation [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] ) Don’t try driving it there as it will go bang!


NoS

Good fun, but not cheap (well, it it is for what you get). As a word of caution: your gearbox will/can go bang (mainshaft snaps) if you run more than a 50 shot (on top of a remap).

FMIC

2 or possibly 3 options with this one.

ABD Racing do a front mount which mounts fairly easily and is good with a mildly tuned car (see first post). Expensive at nearly £900.

Impreziv are now on their 2nd iteration of their FMIC. The first one was very, very efficient and was causing condensation in the pipes (it is that efficient!) Excellent with a big turbo upgrade, possibly overkill with a standard turbo. Price is about £550.

Jabbasport are making a FMIC to go with their big turbo kit, price not yet announced.

All of the above (apart from the Jabba one) are in use on various cars. Another option, which is far cheaper and is nearly as efficient is the water spray system for the standard sidemount IC. This is available from www.autospeed.com . in addition to their kit, you will also need a larger water bottle (£18 from your dealer) and a headlamp washer pump (£22 from your dealer) and some fuel injector piping (it is good and robust). Very good if you are on a budget or don’t want a FMIC.

Brakes

Now you will need a brake upgrade, as you will be reaching the limits of the standard (or even group N) brakes.

You are now down to 2 options; Godspeed or Amd.

Godspeed will give you what you want, in this case AP racing 4 or 6 pot (beware pad prices on the 6 pots!) with 335mm fronts and 308mm rears. Larger brakes are possible if you have bigger wheels, but the ones mentioned will fit under the standard rims as they design their own bells and rotors. They can also provide Brembo kits.

Amd do either Brembo or Porsche brakes. Be warned that these will only fit under standard 17s with at least a 5mm spacer (which can put strain on the standard wheel bearings, especially if track work is contemplated). Not an issue if you are changing your wheels.

Due to various reports on other forums, stay clear of Hi-Spec brakes (links available on request).

Other suppliers to investigate are Alcon and Wilwood, although we haven’t yet.


Exhausts

Between us we have experience of 4 different systems. On thing to note with all these systems, and in particular with the cat back systems, is that you will have to cut the existing exhaust (it’s a one piece unit as standard) and not all systems require cutting in the same place.

Sebring cat back

At about £200 this exhaust is not suitable for the RS (due to the bumper cut out) but is a good box for the normal Octavia (for which it was designed). A version is also available for the 4x4. Give a nice bass note which isn’t too loud or drony. Pokes out from under the bumper. Twin round design. Not much, if any, performance gain, its all about noise.

Milltek Full system 200 CPI Cat

A nice system, not too loud (its only just louder than the standard system) but it is good. Fit issues are now resolved and the back box design has changed slightly. Good sound from the downpipe replacement with the the full system. Give a reasonable power gain (approx 10bhp and 20 lb/ft ). Best price so far seems to be www.forgemotorsport.co.uk (01452 380999, speak to Pete) where we get a 10% discount. Only available for the RS.

Milltek Full system 100 CPI Cat

As above in the noise stakes, possibly slightly louder. Bigger gains due to the less restrictive CAT (about 15 and 30 respectively). Will pass an emissions test, provided you turn off the climate control (same as the above, but pushing the bounds of legality). Also, because you have a cat, you aren’t breaking the law.


Cat? What Cat? Ooops, it fell off! This sytem has no cat and does away with the second silencer. Looks a bit agricultural (ie its not a nice shiney system) but wow does it flow well! The sound is awesome, especially on full chat. Doesn’t drone when driving on the motorway, a great system. As a cat back it is very expensive, as a full system it’s a decent price. Available as either a twin round or as an oval. Will pass an emissions test, but it is marginal. Those who have it love it!

There are others which are worth considering, although we haven’t tried them (YET!). Impreziv are currently developing another one and Jabbasport offer a Jetex system for the RS. The Impreziv one is primarily for non-RS models, whilst the Jabba one is for the RS.

Strut Braces

If only the top one is fitted, don’t expect massive gains, think of it as creating a 3 sided square. The biggest gain comes from fitting the lower one as well as you make a full rigid square. The top on its own is mainly a cosmetic item. Best place to buy these is from Erik at AAT (01543 683051). Mention Briskoda for a discount. Another supplier is AmD who offer a modified TT brace (at a price [img]images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ). Octavia specific ones are also available from Demon Tweeks.

Bushes

The fitment of Powerbushes is highly recommended. This firms things up nicely and is relatively cheap (until you add labour!). Makes things much firmer, even with standard suspension. Best price so far is Impreziv. Expect a 2 week lead time as no one keeps this stuff in stock. Engine mount one is well worth having, as are the rear beam bushes (beware, you need to remove the rear brakes to fit them).

ABD also make an engine mount (the dog bone one) but it is too harsh for everyday use. Causes big vibrations through the cabin.

Have we missed anything out Denis? Other than ARBs, which none of us have uprated yet (the uprated ARB mounts help as there is no squidgeyness before the bar starts to work).

Ah yes, I know what we missed, Racelogic Traction control:

Don't bother, unless you have already done the LSD. It is just an uprated version of what we already have and unless you have the diff in, it ain't worth the £700 for what is essentially an uprated standard system (possibly less harsh in its operation, but still a pain none the less). Also, with the bigger pwoered ones, the launch control can't be set at an high enough level for the engine to be on boost at launch time (correct me if I'm wrong on that one Bill).


Tyres
It depends on what you want. Some will say that the 45 profile will give a worse ride. This is a fallacy as the 2 sizes have a remakably similar rolling diameter as 45 is not a distance but a ratio between width and height (in this case the height of a 205 will be 50% of its width ie 102.5 and the 225 will be 101.25, so a 1.25mm difference in sidewall height). This does not lead to a massive increase in sidewall stiffness, contrary to popular belief.

Anyway, enough rambling, which is better, answer is neither! They are as good as each other, for different things. The main reason that people are going for the 225 is that it is cheaper and more readily available. When released the 205/50 17 was primarily a Porsche specific tyre size and dealers charged accordingly, whereas the 225 was common to a lot of marques. Things have improved since the 307 came along, as well as quite a few others.

The main benefit from the 225, in performance terms (at least in the dry) is that it has a bigger footprint on the road due to its width.

More important than the size, there are 2 other factors to consider.

1. The load rating of the tyre. This is a fixed measure and deals with the deformity of the sidewall under a given load. A 94W will deform less than a 89W as it is build to withstand a greater weight for a given amount of deformation.

2. The tyre compound. This is harder to find out and there are no real clues, apart from reading up. A softer tyre will grip better than a hard one, but will also wear out quicker. A clue to this can be found in the treadwear rating on the side of the tyre. In my experience, if you multiply that number by 100 it will give you, very roughly the number of miles you can expect from a set. It'll also give you an idea of how soft the tyre is (although it is complicated by the actual tread depth when new) for example P Zero C Dry compound have a wear index of 80, Toyos are about 220, Contis are 240 Rossos are 220 Neros are 240 ZZ3s are about 320 [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Narrow tyres have a better resistance to aquaplaning and are better in snowy/icy conditions, but don't generate as much grip when it is dry.

Sorry its a bit disjointed, but I hope it helps in some way (probably not though as it doesn't give a definitive answer)
205/50

Pirelli Wintersport 240 – A V rated winter tyre. One of the new breed of winter tyres that won’t invalidate your insurance. Strangely enough, if your car comes with V rated tyres, insurance companies can get a bit upset if you fit H rated ones. Its no problem going for a higher rating, but lower is frowned upon. Sitting in the garage at the moment, ready to be fitted after 2nd November. Therefore no opinion at the moment.

Continental Wintercontact V rated
Ran these last year. Not as good in the dry as summer tyres (unless it was below about 6 degrees), excellent in the wet (on a par with the Bridgestone SO-3 and the Eagle GSD-3) even better when it was cold and wet. Very comfortable and quiet tyre, but pricey (about £150 each)

215/45

Dunlop D01-J

Nutter tyres! Appalling wear rates, superb in the dry (as you would expect from a road legal slick ) not bad in the wet, but treacherous if you hit standing water. Good value for money, when compared to the competition (£115 per tyre)

P Zero Corsa

Grip even harder than the Dunlops, you can only run this size on the 7” rims. You can’t go any wider as the sidewalls are so stiif they won’t fold over to fit on the smaller rim (so 225s are out, they need a 8” rim). Absolutely awesome, at a price (£170 +VAT per corner) but oh so cool. Asymmetrical and directional in one tyre [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Avon ZZ3

A very hard tyre that takes a while to get up to temperature. Pretty cheap and will last a long time. Bit skittish in the wet due to its hard nature. Nowhere near as dangerous as the ZZ1. Not bad for the money.

225/45

P Zero Rosso

Get it up to temp and its incredible. Turn in and grip are both very good, wet or dry, as is braking performance. Fairly quiet and comfortable tyre. About £120 per tyre. Well worth getting.

P Zero Nero

A more extreme version of the Rosso, quite harsh in terms of noise and ride quality, lasts fairly well. Good both wet and dry, marginally better than the Rosso and slightly cheaper (if you can actually find someone who has them in stock).

Had others in the past, but you said what is on there now. Of the others, Conti SportContact and SportContact2 rate pretty well, but get dubious when below 3mm. Reckon its down to them being German tyres (German legal limit is 3mm) and it’s a hint when they stop gripping that you should change them. Noticed something similar with the Dunlop 9090s (although not as pronounced).