Handbrake cable issue on my VRS

[rum4mo]

I think that I'll order in a pair of Sharan springs, they are 7M0 615 295/296 - same for any Sharan 2001>2004+, I want some new bleed valves anyway so a visit to my local VW is on the cards! My problem with using the 1K0 springs, in the way I've fitted them, is that quite a lot of "load" is being wound into them to get them to fit as I've chosen to fit them - I'm guessing about 120 degrees of "load", whereas the 8E0 springs fitted as standard to my B5 Passat is only "loaded" by about 60 degrees.

[ultra_joel88]

Let us know how much the sharan springs are as they seem a neater fit so wouldnt mind some if theyre cheapish

[rum4mo]

Hi all - Sorry for the problems I seem to have caused!!:(

Ultra_joel88 I have the same springs as you . A hook at one end and a kind of dog leg at the other? I currently have the O/S spring with the 'dog leg' fitted to the handbrake lever part and the 'hook' fitted into the fixed bracket bolted to the caliper still with the 'coil' of the spring towards the rear. In this position the offset of the 2 arms of the spring matches the offset between the lever and the bracket so the spring sits squarely.

I do take ric04vrs' point that fitted as I have them the springs are somewhat 'exposed' but because the springs are always under tension I don't think they could be dislodged very easily.

I too think ric04vrs' springs may be different as they seem to have 'hooks' at both ends.

I fitted mine in the position I did after referring to the VAGCAT illustration which seems to show the 'coil' facing rearwards AND using the part numbers i.e. 1K0615295 to the N/S and 1K0615296 to the O/S. There only appeared to be one way they would fit!! :confused:

In your picture from yesterday your spring looks to be as close as you will get to matching ric04vrs' position - I've looked again at his images and his springs ARE different. Look at FAST-FITZ's picture - your springs and his (and mine) are the same!!

I hope you can get yours functioning again.

Regards

Alan

AAK, it was someone like you I was referring to when I made my comment about the "straight" or "dogleg" end ending up resting on/in the handbrake actuator rod fluid seal if the springs are fitted "coil towards the rear" - I tried that way round initially as it looked closest to how my Passat springs "sit" - and quickly changed my method. One other thing, if anyone looks at ric04vrs's picture of the Galaxy springs and compare my picture of the A3 springs, then you will see that the A3 springs need to get wound up about twice as much as the Galaxy springs to get fitted - and stay close to this compression during use. That will be why I am complaining about having a very heavy handbrake now. For what its worth, I'd advise anyone why has not yet bought springs to buy either the Galaxy ones from Ford or get the VAG equivalent parts for the Sharan - ie buy 7M0 615 295 (LHS) + 7M0 615 296 (RHS) - as soon as I can I'll be getting a set to replace the 1K0 ones I've fitted to the Polo (next weekend).

[rum4mo]

Let us know how much the sharan springs are as they seem a neater fit so wouldnt mind some if theyre cheapish

Will do but I'd expect them to be the same price +/- a few pence as the A3/Golf ones, it will be Friday before I find that out I'd think.

By the way, the "other" spring (8E0) in my previous posting of two springs, is the same item as is fitted to my Passat B5, the O/S calliper picture shows this 8E0 spring fitted as VW intended (handbrake is ON).

Edited 27 September, 2009 by rum4mo

[Greybeard]

Have just put the return springs on my 05 Fabia vRS:-

1.Reverse up nearest convenient dropped kerb, to give yourself a bit more room under car without resorting to jack out and wheels off.

2.Fit flat end of spring into moving handbrake arm - see photo 9058 - the end of the spring locates nicely into the small round hole (once the hook end is properly engaged after stage 6 below)

3.By hand pull the hook end round until it catches on the bottom edge of the damper mounting/radius arm.

4.Using special tool A (photo 9057) - actually old back boiler poker with bent end - hook the end of the return spring and pull it round to drop partly into the L shaped slot on the fixed bracket. Needs a bit of a heave but with the long poker you can control it well and it doesn't spring out. Then you have to get the end of special tool A out.

5.Hold the spring in place with the end of special tool B (photo 9057) - actually piece of 20 mm square section wood or whatever's similar laying around handy, assisted by partner who doesn't mind getting down on the road with you in the 'spoons' position (obviously more fun if partner is opposite gender!)

6.Slowly ease the special tool A out of the spring hook end and as long as you maintain pressure with special tool B the spring pops into place without mangling fingers or chipping teeth.

Took about 15 minutes including finding 'special tools', shunting car about and press ganging assistant.

Hopefully someone else can make use of this bit of good old British ingenuity!

Edited 27 September, 2009 by Greybeard

[aak]

Hi rum4mo

Thanks for the headsup regarding the fitting of the springs - I've checked mine today and they are clear of the hanbrake actuator rod seal you mention. These seals are to minimise the ingress of moisture (which they don't do!) and within the caliper there is a further seal that prevents any leakage of brake fluid. I have previously pulled the seal you mention away from the caliper to lubricate the mechanism with no adverse effects.

If necessary it would take little to snip a small amount off the dog-leg end of the spring if this was a concern.

I did promise 53fabiavrs further pictures and attach them below.

It's good that there has been much discussion about this 'problem' and I think the general concensus is that there ARE better springs than the 1K0 type (fitted to VW Tourans with LUCAS rear calipers -PR-1KF).Fabia vRS have LUCAS PR-1KP! It IS neater to have the spring coil fitted to the front - all this would take is to swap the 1K0 springs over O/S to N/S etc.and turn them upside down before fitting.

While mine are working OK with no added 'weight' to the handbrake I'll leave them as they are. Everyone must make their own mind up whether this suits them or not!!

Kind Regards

Alan

[aak]

Greybeard I think you've 'cracked it'!!.

The photos Nos. 3 and 4 showing the end of the 'dog-legged' end of the spring poking nicely out of the hole in the handbrake lever arm - as though it was 'meant' to be - would now suggest to me that this IS the way to fit the springs!!

I would also compliment you on your ingenious fitting tool!!

Kind regards

Alan

[Greybeard]

Greybeard I think you've 'cracked it'!!.

The photos Nos. 3 and 4 showing the end of the 'dog-legged' end of the spring poking nicely out of the hole in the handbrake lever arm - as though it was 'meant' to be - would now suggest to me that this IS the way to fit the springs!!

I would also compliment you on your ingenious fitting tool!!

Kind regards

Alan

Thanks Alan.

For those who may want to see an indication of the tools in use here's a couple more photo's.

Also worth mentioning that if you fit them with the handbrake off the distance to bend through is shorter, not much difference but every little helps when heaving away under the car with not much room to work.

No I wasn't going to take the springs off again to show it all in real time...... in any case there isn't enough room under there for a photographer as well!!

Edited 27 September, 2009 by Greybeard

[ric04vrs]

all interesting stuff , so it seems there are 2, possibly 3 different springs which will do the same job , the VAG ones that most have fitted seem to put a lot more return pressure/tension on the lever , whereas the ones i've fitted do the same job with a lot less tension, and are therefore a lot easier to fit, literally 2 minutes without toolage

[aak]

Hi ric04vrs

Yup I agree with you - there does seem to be a bit of variety!!

As I said previously I do think your Ford springs ARE the neater solution. I also have reconsidered my 'version' of fitting the 1K0 springs. I chose to do them 'my' way using the part number and the VAGCAT illustration.

I now think that I am wrong and that FASTFITZ Ultra_Joel88 and rum4mo have the springs fitted in a more appropriate way - all things considered ( although rum4mo's springs need the hook end pulled into the lower end of the 'L' shaped slot of the caliper bracket - as per Greybeard's 'special' tool!! ).

I think those of us who are experiencing 'sticking' mechanisms will benefit more from the 1K0 version of the spring. As I said earlier the handbrake 'feel' is no different with the springs fitted but they do no longer drag.

I'll be changing the position of my springs to match the others I've mentioned.

Great forum we have here that we can all share our experiences.

Thanks to all who've contributed.

Kind Regards

Alan

[ultra_joel88]

Since removing mine and refitting, its not working so well :(

Its not sticking as much as without the spring, but still sticking, as O/S wheel feels slightly warmer than N/S.

On my handbrake lever, I cant actually return it to its stop by pushing, its that ****ed that I have to give it a couple of taps with a hammer for it to hit the stop.

Could this mean my handbrake cable is done up too tight?

[aak]

Hi Ultra_joel88

One of the things I did to try and ease the sticking mechanism - before I found out about the springs - was to take the rear pads etc. out and cleaned them (to the point of lightly filing the contact area of the pads). I wound the caliper pistons back and then Coppaslip on the shims where the pads make contact with the caliper before reassembling it all. Also tried to lubricate the handbrake lever shaft where it enters the caliper ( there is a rubber seal between the lever and the caliper body which has to be prised away from the caliper body to get some oil/WD40 in!!). REMEMBER TO 'PUMP' THE BRAKE PEDAL A FEW TIMES BEFORE TESTING!!

All this did help but as you will know I still had to resort to the 1K0 springs!!

You could always try backing off the handbrake cable adjuster (located under the small 'tray/cup holder in the rear of the car. This would allow you to release the 'ball' end of the cable at which time you could then pull/push it back and forward. That should tell you if it is the cable that's sticking or not.

When readjusting the cable tension there should be a tiny gap between the lever and its' stop when the handbrake is off. (mine had a small plastic 'feeler' attached to the caliper for this purpose at one time - before it fell off!!). 4 'clicks' to fully on seems about right.

Hope these suggestions are of some help?

Regards

Alan

P.S. I now acknowledge that you have/had the springs fitted in the preferred way after seeing Greybeard's excellent pictures.

Edited 27 September, 2009 by aak
further info

[ric04vrs]

On my handbrake lever, I cant actually return it to its stop by pushing, its that ****ed that I have to give it a couple of taps with a hammer for it to hit the stop.

Could this mean my handbrake cable is done up too tight?

the cable could be too tight , but i suspect the the caliper lever is sticking, although both are easy to test with levers or mole-grips,

maybe get in touch with Jason again re his rear calipers he had for sale last month

[rum4mo]

Hi ric04vrs

Yup I agree with you - there does seem to be a bit of variety!!

As I said previously I do think your Ford springs ARE the neater solution. I also have reconsidered my 'version' of fitting the 1K0 springs. I chose to do them 'my' way using the part number and the VAGCAT illustration.

I now think that I am wrong and that FASTFITZ Ultra_Joel88 and rum4mo have the springs fitted in a more appropriate way - all things considered ( although rum4mo's springs need the hook end pulled into the lower end of the 'L' shaped slot of the caliper bracket - as per Greybeard's 'special' tool!! ).

I think those of us who are experiencing 'sticking' mechanisms will benefit more from the 1K0 version of the spring. As I said earlier the handbrake 'feel' is no different with the springs fitted but they do no longer drag.

I'll be changing the position of my springs to match the others I've mentioned.

Great forum we have here that we can all share our experiences.

Thanks to all who've contributed.

Kind Regards

Alan

Hum, yes I see what you mean about the lower end needing to move down into the lower end of the "L" - I'll still try the 7M0 version next week and report back because these 1K0 really do end up being wound up quite a bit to get into place with the coil at the front - remember the factory fitted ones on my Passat B5 do face the rear and maybe the 7M0 ones will end up being a bit shorter than the 8E0 ones from the Passat B5 I initially tried a few years ago. Wife thinks that she can live with an extremely heavy handbrake for a week, or I might find some energy to move them down tomorrow night.

[Greybeard]

Handbrake action on mine is definitely heavier since I added the springs, but I'd rather live with that than the binding brakes and free play in the lever. Mrs has yet to give opinion on it though..............!!

[rum4mo]

Handbrake action on mine is definitely heavier since I added the springs, but I'd rather live with that than the binding brakes and free play in the lever. Mrs has yet to give opinion on it though..............!!

Well after my wife's first apparent concern for the "weight" of the handbrake after fitting these extra springs, I enquired last night "how it went" after using the car for a day and she reports that she likes the heavier feel of the handbrake - better than without springs fitted - what is that all about!! So is there now a new reason to fit these extra springs for all these lucky people that don't otherwise need them fitted (if you like that sort of thing!)

One other thing though, friends of my wife used to have a Polo - bought new - probably 6N model, and they could not live with needing to pay to get the clutch pedal assembly rewelded a few times by VW. also they later had, as a second car, a Lupo - also bought new, this time it was the handbrake "coming away" in their hands and needing rewelded by VW three times that made they steer clear of VAG products - they now have a Fiesta and a Jazz and both are boringly fault-free - and that includes no welding needed! Please note that both this couple are "light weight" and not car or any other consummer goods wreckers - so it must have been down to bad design and manufacture, the Polo clutch pedal thing is well documented, but the Lupo handbrake "coming away" from the car body has missed me - and having a heavier handbrake after fitting these springs makes me recount this couples problems.

Edited 29 September, 2009 by rum4mo

[Greybeard]

I'd say that the handbrake action probably feels more 'positive' even though slightly heavier which is perhaps why it seems 'better' in some way. Hopefully the welds will hold up, time will tell.

[rum4mo]

I'd say that the handbrake action probably feels more 'positive' even though slightly heavier which is perhaps why it seems 'better' in some way. Hopefully the welds will hold up, time will tell.

Yes I'm stuck between thinking that all this extra weight is down to the tension on the extra springs or as you say its a bit of that plus the handbrake action is more "positive". To back that up, I will add that when I replaced all the discs and pads a week or two ago, initially the O/S handbrake lever was "springing" back okay and the handbrake was "heavy". After my wife used the car for 3 or 4 days, the handbrake was back to being "normal" - ie a bit of "slack" initial movement - and the O/S handbrake lever was back to its old ways - ie not returning fully although it would be forced back to the stop. Then last weekend, after fitting the extra springs the handbrake returned to the "just after getting new discs and pads" feel.

[Rob.]

So with several different springs from a few manufacturers for a couple of different brake types... can we agree on the best spring for the vRS?

The one which offers enough push to release the brake, but doesn't make the lever weigh a ton.. and fits quite easily if with a little jiggery pokery!

[ric04vrs]

So with several different springs from a few manufacturers for a couple of different brake types... can we agree on the best spring for the vRS?

The one which offers enough push to release the brake, but doesn't make the lever weigh a ton.. and fits quite easily if with a little jiggery pokery!

the Galaxy ones i've fitted , which are the same as the 8E0 615 296A ones

[rum4mo]

the Galaxy ones i've fitted , which are the same as the 8E0 615 296A ones

I kind of hope that you are wrong as I've ordered in a pair of Sharan (7M0) springs - just to see what they look like compared with the 8E0 ones that I tried a few years ago. From the pictures in one of my previous postings to this thread, you can see that I've already had a "good go" at fitting these springs - ie lots of scratches from pipe pliers or mole grips, so I my memory is correct, I had a crap time trying to get any use out of them. I seem to remember that your pictures of the Galaxy springs are a bit different from my picture of the 8E0 springs - I'm hoping that that differance will make a lot of differance - tomorrow I'll find out if this is true!

[ric04vrs]

as far as i can tell , the 8E0 ones are exactly the same as the Galaxy ones, 180 degree bend one end, and 180 degree bend with dog leg the other

[rum4mo]

I am kind of thinging that in that respect all of the return springs for this series of Lucas rear callipers will fit that description - but I was kind of thinking that the actual "wind up angle" and the length of the end "legs" would vary to suit the individual applications. I still do thing that your Galaxy spring looks different enough from my 8E0 spring to make a difference. I'll post up a picture with both when I pick them up at lunch time. I might even lift the back of the Passat up and take a picture of how the return spring fits and where it lies wrt other bits as its coil is towards the rear of the car.

I also think that the extra round hole that Greybeard and I used to restrain the straight end was just a "lucky break" - maybe designed to be there for a "just in case" situation - I'll check to see if the Passat has that extra hole - I'm sure it will seeing as all these callipers are from the same series.

[Roysvork]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I have a handbrake issue that comes and goes on my Fabia VRS also. First time I noticed it was about a month ago. It seemed like the brake was stuck slightly on the rear right wheel, evident by a more sudden stop when otherwise it would have rolled gently until stationary. The handbrake lever itself felt much tighter and seemed to have less travel

But then it went away and all was fine until just now after a 70 mile drive, and although I haven't noticed the same resistance the lever feels exactly like before. If it persists I'll get it looked at by a professional, but is there anything I can do\check myself, bearing in mind I'm a total beginner?

[rum4mo]

as far as i can tell , the 8E0 ones are exactly the same as the Galaxy ones, 180 degree bend one end, and 180 degree bend with dog leg the other

Okay, so I now have the Sharan springs - ie 7M0 615 296 and 295 - they are a lot smaller than the Passat B5 8E0 springs so I'd say don't buy the 8E0 ones, BTW the Sharan springs are 1.54 each + VAT. Here are a couple of pictures comparing the 8E0 springs and the 7M0 springs:-

One thing to look at is that the Sharan O/S - ie 296 spring is the opposite of the Passat B5 O/S - ie 296 A - from that I think that we can make the assuption that these springs should be fitted with the coil towards the front of the car - which I think is the way ric04vrs fitted his Galaxy springs, which incidently are also the opposite "hand" to the Passat ones - so either both ric04vrs and I have been given the wrong p/n or part for O/S and N/S, or what I've suggested about them needing to be fitted coil towards the front is sort of belivable. I've not swopped the springs over yet, but one thing that I'll also need to do is slacken off the cable slightly now that the levers always end up on the stops as I've noticed tonight that there is a slight "mooing" when moving off that can only be getting caused by a slightly "over tight" cable as everything else is new (pads and discs).