2.0 Tdi PD Turbo failure?

[Greenie58]

Iv seen a few references to 2.0 Tdi PD Turbo failure recently on this forum, so is this a common fault? we hear of taxi`s doing megamiles then someone pops up with a reference to the 2.0 Tdi Pd engine having problems, are the problems down to negligence or is it a common fault?

[mannyo]

it seems to be a common fault but does not affect all cars with that engine, there have been cases of them failing at as little as 15K miles but mine is on over 90K miles and still totally original.

[dstev2000]

My turbo popped at around 70k, it has always been serviced at main dealers and most of its miles were of the motorway variety. Some people are well beyond 100k with the original turbo still going strong.

Its just down to luck. The same can be said for the flywheel problem, the cylinder head problem, the EGR cooler issue etc etc. I;ve had all of these so its safe to say I am VERY unlucky

The thing to bear in mind is people will actively seek out this forum looking for help when something goes bang, they are less likely to come here to say their car is working fine. This forum represents a very small percentage of Skoda owners too.

This will portray a more negative picture of overall reliability and this has to be taken into account.

[Constant]

With my (Golf III) 1.9 TDi I had the flywheel problem at 190.000 km, injector at 240.000, aircopump at 250.000, however never any turbo problem (car sold at 262.000 km). My Scout 2.0 TDi is at 36000 km without any problems yet.

[bi1b0]

Greenie58, unfortunately I hadn't kept track of my research on the VAG engines used in the Skodas, but again, the 2.0 TDI-PD (the 140 PS) seemed to be causing more problems on the average -- not many, just more compared to the 1.9. And it's not just with Skoda too, but in VW's own cars and Audi. See for example this topic.

My impression is that unlike the 1.9 litre engine, which has been around for much longer, the 2.0 litre was relatively new, and it always takes time to find the best design decisions, especially concerning such highly stressed components like the turbochargers. Actually, there are three 140 PS, 2.0 litre Pumpe Düse engines used in the Octy range:

CODE (PS)   Displacement   Valves    CR         Bore x Stroke      ECU            Injectors   Power(KW)  Turbo

AZV (136)       2.0          16      18.5:1     81.0mm x 95.5mm    Bosch EDC16    Bosch         100      GT1646V

BKD (140)       2.0          16      18.5:1     81.0mm x 95.5mm    Bosch EDC16    Bosch         103      GT1749VA

BMM (136)       2.0           8      18.5:1     81.0mm x 95.5mm    Bosch EDC16    Bosch         100      GT1646V

The Mk2 has initially been powered by the AZV and BKD, which are both DOHC, but from 2007, the DPF equipped BMM engine has been introduced. It's SOHC, has only 8 valves, and, here's the interesting part, uses the same turbo as the AZV, but which is different to the one used in BKD. One could easily suspect this as the reason why some cars seem to be running just fine, while others fail surprisingly. Which of the these engine-turbo combos is doing well and which not, however, I cannot tell.

Mind you, I'm not an expert at all, and all this information I've just gathered online: see Wikipedia and this link.

[bi1b0]

I've just stumbled upon this topic (also interesting if you were curious as to how a BMM engine looks like.) Take a look at post #42:

i have 2.0 tdi 140hp, and the turbo isn't very good(i'm from europe), i have friends with broken turbos that didnt reach 6k miles

i want to upgrade to the vnt17 VB series, becouse everybody tells me that is bolt on, i konw that the turbo from my car fits a PD130 bolt on, i have seen it with my own eyes, but the other way around i dont know

my advice is to go with the vnt 17 VB is the best, and i think is bolt on, i will take measures on my car and compare it to the PD130 and see if it fits

Edited 29 December, 2009 by bi1b0

[durhamfisher]

Iv seen a few references to 2.0 Tdi PD Turbo failure recently on this forum, so is this a common fault? we hear of taxi`s doing megamiles then someone pops up with a reference to the 2.0 Tdi Pd engine having problems, are the problems down to negligence or is it a common fault?

The variable vanes stick on the turbo and cause the car to go into limp home mode. At least thats what happened to me. I changed the turbo at 50k ish. A bloke next door has done 160k with his and its on the original turbo.

[bi1b0]

The variable vanes stick on the turbo and cause the car to go into limp home mode.

It's the VNT15 series (smaller than both 16 and 17-ies, AFAIK), but should give a nice general idea in case anyone hasn't seen such before...

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/vnt15-turbo.html

[durhamfisher]

It's the VNT15 series (smaller than both 16 and 17-ies, AFAIK), but should give a nice general idea in case anyone hasn't seen such before...

http://www.technologie-entwicklung.de/Gasturbines/VNT15-Turbo/vnt15-turbo.html

Great link, thanks. Shows just how the turbo gets caked up with soot.

[tom1362]

In general lads, try to prolong the life of your turbo by not reving too high until you reach 90 degrees. I appreciate that this can be hard to do all the time, but if you keep doing it , it will become part of eery morning driving.

When you arive at your destination, (especially those of you who do motorway miles at relativley high revs for prolonged periods of time), allow the car to idle for at leat one - two minute to allow the turbo to cool down and also to wind down.

As said previously , once you make an effort to do it everyday, it will become part of the normal day to day driving routine

HTH

Tom

Edited 30 December, 2009 by tom1362

[Greenie58]

Well I had to go back to the dealers I bought the car from around a month ago for an unrelated issue but while there I had a word with the service manager, in short I told him that after 7 years of flawless ownership covering two Audis that I hoped I wasnt in for a bad time with the Scout and asked about the Turbo, Flywheel, Injectors, particle filter problems....etc, after releasing the grip on his tie he told me that most of these issues came about mainly to poor driver habits and negligence, he said check you oil level every 1000 miles and you will be fine, I`ll keep you posted

[dstev2000]

Well I had to go back to the dealers I bought the car from around a month ago for an unrelated issue but while there I had a word with the service manager, in short I told him that after 7 years of flawless ownership covering two Audis that I hoped I wasnt in for a bad time with the Scout and asked about the Turbo, Flywheel, Injectors, particle filter problems....etc, after releasing the grip on his tie he told me that most of these issues came about mainly to poor driver habits and negligence, he said check you oil level every 1000 miles and you will be fine, I`ll keep you posted

Poor driver habits eh? I like that one

So what he is suggesting is a Skoda will be unreliable if it isn't driven 'just so'

Correct oil levels are known to keep the flywheel in good nick

[durhamfisher]

he told me that most of these issues came about mainly to poor driver habits and negligence, he said check you oil level every 1000 miles and you will be fine, I`ll keep you posted

I've a good mine to go round there and shove my failed turbo up where the sun dont shine.

As for driving style, to be clear:

I now need to drive low revs until I reach 90 degrees, which in these temperatures means about 5-6 miles or more;

but now my DPF is starting to clog up, so I need to drive at high revs after this to clear it;

But I need to be careful that I dont accelerate too hard below 2k revs as it will break my DMF;

by this time I'm at my destination but need to sit in the car for two minutes with the engine running while my turbo winds down.

OK, I'm off down the dealership to buy a petrol....

(btw, no offence meant tom1362, all light hearted!)

[mcgiver]

Another reason why turbos die early is keeping the same air filter for too long.Uk Skoda garages recommend changing the air filter every 40.000 miles and this is not right for a diesel car.

Should be changed every year or even earlier if necessary, ideally every 10k and this is what skoda garages do on the continent and was recommended by dieselcar magazine.

When i asked a skoda dealer in the uk i was told that they are following german instructions.There must be some mistake in the translation.

I had six octavias diesel (one up to 160k ) and never a problem with turbos. CHANGE THE AIRFILTER SOONER.

[sniper29a]

read this article and your turbo will last as mine - well over 200,000km of hard core use.

 

It is rarely a material fault since Garett tests their turbos very well. It is always FAILURE between seat and car control !!!

[Anddenton]

Holy thread revival Batman.  

[ScoutAngell]

On 29/12/2009 at 11:10, bi1b0 said:

Greenie58, unfortunately I hadn't kept track of my research on the VAG engines used in the Skodas, but again, the 2.0 TDI-PD (the 140 PS) seemed to be causing more problems on the average -- not many, just more compared to the 1.9. And it's not just with Skoda too, but in VW's own cars and Audi. See for example this topic.

My impression is that unlike the 1.9 litre engine, which has been around for much longer, the 2.0 litre was relatively new, and it always takes time to find the best design decisions, especially concerning such highly stressed components like the turbochargers. Actually, there are three 140 PS, 2.0 litre Pumpe Düse engines used in the Octy range:

 

CODE (PS)   Displacement   Valves    CR         Bore x Stroke      ECU            Injectors   Power(KW)  Turbo

AZV (136)       2.0          16      18.5:1     81.0mm x 95.5mm    Bosch EDC16    Bosch         100      GT1646V

BKD (140)       2.0          16      18.5:1     81.0mm x 95.5mm    Bosch EDC16    Bosch         103      GT1749VA

BMM (136)       2.0           8      18.5:1     81.0mm x 95.5mm    Bosch EDC16    Bosch         100      GT1646V

 

 

The Mk2 has initially been powered by the AZV and BKD, which are both DOHC, but from 2007, the DPF equipped BMM engine has been introduced. It's SOHC, has only 8 valves, and, here's the interesting part, uses the same turbo as the AZV, but which is different to the one used in BKD. One could easily suspect this as the reason why some cars seem to be running just fine, while others fail surprisingly. Which of the these engine-turbo combos is doing well and which not, however, I cannot tell.

Mind you, I'm not an expert at all, and all this information I've just gathered online: see Wikipedia and this link.

So my turbo just blown at 180000 miles oridnal one engine is bmm 2007 if you can or know which turbo to replace with please tell.

[Stuart-h]

my old mk2 turbo went at 199,000 odd miles. Car was still going strong at 230,000 odd miles

[DJSmiley]

Turbo can last anywhere between 'short' and 'forever'. It all depends on the usage, care and a little luck.

 

My collegue used to drive in one of our company Caddy's (1.9TDI). He did abuse it, driving like a maniac, using kickdown all the time (including in winter with a cold engine). First turbo failed after 50k miles... 

Maintenance? He never read the books, 'garage will take care of it'. No light on the dash = all ok...  Oil topups? Unless the light was on... No. And so on....

 

My own car (also a 1.9TDI) is now at 263k miles and still running fine on its original turbo.

I drive, especially with a cold engine, pretty normal, and barely drive >3000rpm with a cold engine. Oil changes (and filters) are done every 14k miles, and once a year I use some forte cleaning additives (diesel fuel threatment and turbo cleaner) on a long trip to 'clean' the turbo. 

So far, works out fine for me. Never had limp mode or had to use MrMuscle solutions yet...

 

But even if you take the best care you can.. if the previous owner didn't, you still might have to deal with the results of that..