From the maker of the most reliable cars, supposedly, and always highly rated in surveys !!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7012913.ece

From the maker of the most reliable cars, supposedly, and always highly rated in surveys !!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7012913.ece

Every manufacturer has, at some time or other, been subject to recalls on their vehicles, just look at the VOSA site.

At least Toyota have had the balls to recall the cars before there is a problem in the UK.

The problem now, is that all manufactuers out scource their parts, so each individual item even in a Skoda is made by somebody else, so quality control can, and is a problem when the parts fail.

Toyotas are not what they used to be, but there again which manufactuer does not have problems.

We only seem to hear about the bad points with cars on forums, never the good ones.

It's not an issue with the part per se, more of the part/mat meeting.

if the driver had the wherewithall to phone the emergency services then why didn't they think to knock the car into neutral, or even park, assuming it was an auto

and what about turning that magic ignition key OFF !

if the driver had the wherewithall to phone the emergency services then why didn't they think to knock the car into neutral, or even park, assuming it was an auto

and what about turning that magic ignition key OFF !

Cos he's a stoopid yank with no concept of how the car works?

There was a similar story some time ago in britain where a guy driving his BMW 5 series in England crashed as his throttle got stuck. Automatic transmission but never though of knocking it into park or anything. So it's going to fook the transmission doing that... but who cares if it saves you from a crash!

Phil

Edited 3 February, 201016 yr by philje123

if the driver had the wherewithall to phone the emergency services then why didn't they think to knock the car into neutral, or even park, assuming it was an auto

and what about turning that magic ignition key OFF !

That's what I would have thought but even if it was 'panic stations', one of them was a California Highway Patrolman for goodness sake.

It's not an issue with the part per se, more of the part/mat meeting.

Been in touch with the local Toyota dealer to see about mine, and they tell me it the pedal itself, somthing to do with the pivot pin inside the pedal.

Lets wait and see when they do mine.

Been in touch with the local Toyota dealer to see about mine, and they tell me it the pedal itself, somthing to do with the pivot pin inside the pedal.

Lets wait and see when they do mine.

They must modify it so that it pivots about a different point then. The currently problem is the pedal catching the floor mats, but there's no actual problem with the pedal, just the design

The floor mat problem only affects the USA market and not the UK one, see question 14 in the attached.

You will also see that it is the pivot point that is causing the problem, all is explained in the attached.

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/pedal-recall-your-frequently-asked-questions

Edited 4 February, 201016 yr by TheMethodFeeder

The problem with the Lexus in this case is that I dont think they could turn the engine off as its a push button and if your moving it wont let you turn it off. Also I think all the controls are by wire. therefore the gearbox proabbly wouldnt let you move out of drive as it is moving and therefore trys to prevent damage. The final issue is that unlike VW group products with drive by wire throttles there is no brake override. In VW's the brake always wins in an argument between the brake and accelorator pedals, the accelorator can be flat to the floor but if you press the brakes it takes over. By contrast in all the Toyota drive by wire there isn't this system therefore if the throttle is stuck open the ECU will probably ignore comands from the brake pedal as the accelortaor is acting as though you want to go faster. From what I have read the car was travelling at 120mph when it crashed the only thing that they may have been able to do is put the handbrake on but again in this car think it was electronic so in effect they had no chance.

I feel incredibly sorry for the family and think that this is a massive design problem which affects the majority of Toyota group products from the last 10 years. I have a feeling that these recalls are the tip of the iceberg. Toyota has forgotten what made it great in the first place quality and reliability all for the dream of being the worlds largest car maker. If you look at what a supposed acclerator problem did to Audi in the 1980's in America even though it was proved to be owners who were slipping from the brake to the accelerator due to small pedals being close together you will understand the headache and damage to reputation Toyota is about to suffer.

Thanks Fabia00. Based on that, I'd advise anyone who drives for work to refuse to drive Toyota Group vehicles, since there is a clear H&S problem with a car that can not be stopped if the throttle "sticks".

The problem with the Lexus in this case is that I dont think they could turn the engine off as its a push button and if your moving it wont let you turn it off. Also I think all the controls are by wire. therefore the gearbox proabbly wouldnt let you move out of drive as it is moving and therefore trys to prevent damage. The final issue is that unlike VW group products with drive by wire throttles there is no brake override. In VW's the brake always wins in an argument between the brake and accelorator pedals, the accelorator can be flat to the floor but if you press the brakes it takes over. By contrast in all the Toyota drive by wire there isn't this system therefore if the throttle is stuck open the ECU will probably ignore comands from the brake pedal as the accelortaor is acting as though you want to go faster. From what I have read the car was travelling at 120mph when it crashed the only thing that they may have been able to do is put the handbrake on but again in this car think it was electronic so in effect they had no chance.

I feel incredibly sorry for the family and think that this is a massive design problem which affects the majority of Toyota group products from the last 10 years. I have a feeling that these recalls are the tip of the iceberg. Toyota has forgotten what made it great in the first place quality and reliability all for the dream of being the worlds largest car maker. If you look at what a supposed acclerator problem did to Audi in the 1980's in America even though it was proved to be owners who were slipping from the brake to the accelerator due to small pedals being close together you will understand the headache and damage to reputation Toyota is about to suffer.

This is the reason I hate these fly by wire throttles and gimmicky push buttons. Ultimate control should always be with the driver. If he could have got the engine off, put the thing in neutral or park and hit the brakes that family could still be here. That was a very harrowing call: heartbraking,

I think this is less of an issue on manual cars where you could put them in neutral and then brake, or where they have a handbrake lever or ordinary key. The problem is worse in cars where they are all controlled by electronics such as push button start and stop and electric handbrakes or automatics. My mum has a fairly new Toyota so it is a bit scary to think it could happen.

I know these are American sources but they explain that Toyota now plans to fit a brake override as well as the proposed pedal fix:

http://www.buffalonews.com/180/story/944922.html

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Have+confidence+Toyota+Canada/2519914/story.html

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=2423

http://www.northjersey.com/news/national/83417482_Your_car_s_accelerator_gets_stuck__Now_what_.html

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100202/BIZ/2030323/1076/Toyota+slow+to+add+brake+override+technology

if you hold the pushbutton in it will kill the engine same as removing the key

Ok didnt realise you could hold it in to turn it off. But in this case it was a rental car so I suppose they wouldn't have known also if I was travelling at 120mph with the trottle stuck open I dont think I would. Is it possible that the accelerator may also override that system though as perhaps the ECU would ignore the request to shut down?

These make interesting reading:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/10/620000514/1

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct/18/business/fi-toyota-recall18?pg=3.

Also didnt realise that the car had four impacts befor it stopped and caught fire.

Edited 4 February, 201016 yr by Fabia00

Isn't a lot of what's being reported now re-excavated ancient history ?

I recall driving several of the last version of the Corolla, over six years ago and experiencing exactly the same type of problem with footwell matts creeping foward and trapping the edge of the small accelerator. I recall reporting it on this forum. Strange that usually gets a reaction from the people that matter !

Is someone out to rattle some of Toyotas old skeletons in the cupboard ? What would be the motivation for that ? Have they wethered the recession better than other manufacturers or are they likely to be better placed than most (Including the Chinese) to take advantage of the next boom ?

Sadly again, the people who are supposed to protect the public against poor design like that, our brave boys who sit on the various type approval panels of the Department of Transport failed to spot this design fault or worse, kept stum. Like they do with the legions of other car faults Lt vans with petrol tanks under the drivers seat, Suzuki jeeps that turn over at the slightest provocation, peugoets that burst into flames when not in us and on and on . What do they do up there in the way of comprehensive testing before they are prepared to grant type approval for a vehicle to be imported or manufactured in the UK - I got a good idea and it involves staring at ones navel.

As my 2003 post said. I think Toyota couldn't make their mind-up when designing the last Corolla whether they were aiming at the OAP market or the boy racers. That onset of the action of VVT cam at 4000 RPM caught me out a couple of times and I sure it would have given granny a real shock if she inadvertently over-revved the engine by selecting the wrong gear.

Nick

Edited 4 February, 201016 yr by Clunkclick

Clunkclick your probably right that someone is trying to rattle their cage because they have done well through the recesssion. I agree that other car makers have design issues and that the authorities always seem to know more than they let on, but at the same time I think its wrong that Toyota didn't act sooner as you say there have been many problems reported which go back several years and instead of changing the design at the time they let it continue.

Edited 5 February, 201016 yr by Fabia00

if you hold the pushbutton in it will kill the engine same as removing the key

The problem with that, is that although it will stop the engine reving away, you will also lose the servo to the brakes and the power steering, it can also cause the steering wheel to lock, so if your at speed your in trouble.

As I am currently driving one of the cars that is subject to the recall , off I went to the Toyota dealers and was shown the official latest bulletin from Mr T.

It is a pedal problem, none of the cars in the UK have had the mat problem under the pedal, and, as yet, not one car in the UK have been involved in any accidents due to the problem with the pedals.

The dealer stated that "SHOULD" you get the problem with it sticking at speed, just knock it into neutral, and brake normally to a stop, the engine rev limiter will catch the revs, and it will not ruin the engine in the time it takes to stop the car and switch it off normally.

I honestly think that this could be a safety problem, this has been taken out of all proportion, and think that Toyota have taken the right line, especially when you think just how many parts etc they have had to get to cover the recall, and as before "ALL" car makers have had recalls in the past.

Edited 5 February, 201016 yr by TheMethodFeeder

this is from Toyota Canada website. worrying that Lexus models aren't being recalled especially after the terrible accident mention earlier in the thread.

http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/wa/vp?vp=Home.WhatsNew.RecallSolution&language=english

looks like the Prius has issues too

Mark

this is from Toyota Canada website. worrying that Lexus models aren't being recalled especially after the terrible accident mention earlier in the thread.

http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/wa/vp?vp=Home.WhatsNew.RecallSolution&language=english

looks like the Prius has issues too

Mark

And in the SUN -

Toyota was on the verge of recalling 270,000 Prius cars last night.

Under pressure boss Mr Toyoda said today the company is still deciding what steps to take to fix the brake problems on its popular Prius model

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2840066/Toyota-on-verge-of-recalling-270000-Prius-cars-amid-fears-over-brakes.html

Apparently Toyota are recalling the Pious, due to problems with the ABS when braking on very rough, wet, or icy roads, you know, all the times you actually want ABS!

Apparently Toyota are recalling the Pious, due to problems with the ABS when braking on very rough, wet, or icy roads, you know, all the times you actually want ABS!

Oh, a bit like the TEVES units that cause failure of the ABS/ESP that are failing on the VAG group cars?

Have you ever tried to use ABS in the ice or snow, total waste of time?

Its so easy to trawl and all jump on the band wagon, especially when the posters do not have one actual instance or experience of these things happening.

We all do it, but does it really help??????????

Oh, a bit like the TEVES units that cause failure of the ABS/ESP that are failing on the VAG group cars?

Have you ever tried to use ABS in the ice or snow, total waste of time?

Its so easy to trawl and all jump on the band wagon, especially when the posters do not have one actual instance or experience of these things happening.

We all do it, but does it really help??????????

Yes, as it happens I have used ABS in ice and snow, and indeed on rough or wet roads. Oh and the bit about when the failures were occurring was a direct quote from the BBC. I'll agree that you can slow faster in really deep snow without ABS, as long as you'll agree that being able to steer is also useful!