Fuel protest 2010

[lol-lol]

This topic has reared its head via more emails circulating on the web.

An email I received said do not buy from the 2 largest companies BP and Esso I recall it said, others said do not buy on particular days.

As this issue seems to come up every couple of years now, and the current crisis is more to do with GBP/USD rate of exchange more than Government or oil company greed I think the above methods are not as effective as simply only filling your tank three quarters full rather than until the pump click off.

This has the effect of backing up fuel stocks at the fuel stations and distribution centres and by supply and demand they will drop the price to stimulate demand rather than reschedule deliveries and production.

In coordination with the above then I do more of the below than I might normally do:-

-Reduce the crap I carry in the car's boot.

-Pump the tyres up to a mid way point between light and heavy load with due consideration to ambient temperature etc

- I free wheel down long hills but the wife hates this and many say makes no difference as modern injection systems cut off the fuel but it seems to help the computer's consumption figure.

- Be more selective who one beats off the lights

- short journeys are consumption killers, for those less than 4 miles use an alternate means than medium sized (plus) engined cars

The onboard fuel computer is not that accurate so seperate means of working out consumption ie fuel pump metering against satnav journey distance good for verify and calibrating.

Is there a topic for best fuel consumption in a particular model/engine combo. Bet people could get some amazing figures. Got 1000 mile range on the display in my 130 hp TDI A4 once.

[gadgetman]

An email I received said do not buy from the 2 largest companies BP and Esso I recall it said, others said do not buy on particular days.

Utter waste of time.

As retailers on make 1-1.5p a litre (before staff, electricity etc) then the true way to affect prices is to ONLY buy fuel. Buy your snacks, tobacco etc etc from local shops/supermarkerts instead. Usually you'll find it's cheaper to do this anyway

They cant sell fuel if their retailers have gone bust!

[Aspman]

People are already buying less fuel then they used to. Driving a bit slower and changing to smaller cars.

Fuel is so expensive that people are now looking at electric cars and not laughing. Look at Nissan building their 'Leaf' in Sunderland.

I'm surprised the oil companies aren't doing more to lower the price. They last thing they want is a large scale defection to alternatives.

Unless of course Shell etc are planning on building electric plants to supply power for all these Leaf cars.

[TriggerFish]

Unless of course Shell etc are planning on building electric plants to supply power for all these Leaf cars.

On Topgear, when they had that hydrogen car (the Clarity?), when they showed that being filled up it was from one of the big fuel firms, (Shell or Esso I think) so they are seemingly moving into other sources.

[trundlenut]

On Topgear, when they had that hydrogen car (the Clarity?), when they showed that being filled up it was from one of the big fuel firms, (Shell or Esso I think) so they are seemingly moving into other sources.

Where do you think the hydrogen comes from, it's made from oil.

[cheezemonkhai]

Where do you think the hydrogen comes from, it's made from oil.

Or Water and a lot of leccy

[TriggerFish]

Amugnst other places, yes. But surely the point of these new sources is that they won't be coming from/relying on oil?

[trundlenut]

Or Water and a lot of leccy

At the moment it is almost entirely from reforming hydrocarbons. There are little schemes that do it with electric from windturbines and seawater but they are insignificant.

[billy2981]

This topic has reared its head via more emails circulating on the web.

An email I received said do not buy from the 2 largest companies BP and Esso I recall it said, others said do not buy on particular days.

As this issue seems to come up every couple of years now, and the current crisis is more to do with GBP/USD rate of exchange more than Government or oil company greed I think the above methods are not as effective as simply only filling your tank three quarters full rather than until the pump click off.

This has the effect of backing up fuel stocks at the fuel stations and distribution centres and by supply and demand they will drop the price to stimulate demand rather than reschedule deliveries and production.

In coordination with the above then I do more of the below than I might normally do:-

-Reduce the crap I carry in the car's boot.

-Pump the tyres up to a mid way point between light and heavy load with due consideration to ambient temperature etc

- I free wheel down long hills but the wife hates this and many say makes no difference as modern injection systems cut off the fuel but it seems to help the computer's consumption figure.

- Be more selective who one beats off the lights

- short journeys are consumption killers, for those less than 4 miles use an alternate means than medium sized (plus) engined cars

The onboard fuel computer is not that accurate so seperate means of working out consumption ie fuel pump metering against satnav journey distance good for verify and calibrating.

Is there a topic for best fuel consumption in a particular model/engine combo. Bet people could get some amazing figures. Got 1000 mile range on the display in my 130 hp TDI A4 once.

free weeling uses fuel as there is nothing keeping the engine going. leaving it in gear and just releasing the loud peddal tells the ECU that you dont want fuel going to the engine so it cuts fueling. the ECU only allows fuel back in to the engien when it feels it is going to stop.

it seems a common misconception the putting it in neutral(free wheeling) saves fuel. most cars trip comps say ------ when you leave it in gear but if you put it in to neutral then youll get a figure in it as ----- = no fuel used , but when given a figure lol, well your using fuel.

I know Vauxhalls say 99.9 but that I think is how they are programmed.

please correct if I am wrong

[lol-lol]

free weeling uses fuel as there is nothing keeping the engine going. leaving it in gear and just releasing the loud peddal tells the ECU that you dont want fuel going to the engine so it cuts fueling. the ECU only allows fuel back in to the engien when it feels it is going to stop.

it seems a common misconception the putting it in neutral(free wheeling) saves fuel. most cars trip comps say ------ when you leave it in gear but if you put it in to neutral then youll get a figure in it as ----- = no fuel used , but when given a figure lol, well your using fuel.

I know Vauxhalls say 99.9 but that I think is how they are programmed.

please correct if I am wrong

I still think free wheeling save fuel down long hills. If you stay in gear then the rolling down the hill drives the engine and there are friction losses but you are travelling faster then if you left it in gear. Fuel used a tickover is quite small of course. The computer seems to suggest it is more economical to free wheel than leave it in gear. Some VAG computers show 99 mpg, some 199 and I thought at least one showed 399.

Easier to free wheel in the DSG than a manual box, not so easy to switch between these cars continual as I do ie works car DSG, personal car manual.

Do not even consider switching the engine off whilst free wheeling down hill as steering and brakes are servo assisted and you will probably die at the bottom of the hill and not be able to use te money you have saved.

[mannyo]

Frewheeling down hill uses uses more fuel than staying in gear.

Modern cars whilst in gear and you are off the throttle, say going down hill use NO fuel at all. All the fuel is passed back to the fuel tank, instead the engine is kept running by the cars momentum. When you again apply throttle then the fuel is redirected back to the engine.

[Babs]

If you leave it in gear, the rotation of the wheels keeps your engine from stalling, so it doesn't inject any fuel!

['daiking']

Today I've been reading about rumours that VAT will be rising to 20% in July which is another 2.5p on a litre and a total of 5p in extra taxes by the new year as the other duty increments are put on. I've been toying with the idea of going on petrol strike for a few weeks but its not easy what with having a family and needing to get to work but I think I've been tipped over the edge now.

From the 1st July I'm going to try getting the bus to work for the summer and I'll see how it goes from there.

[Babs]

Good luck getting to work on time!

[robmawer]

Good luck getting to work on time!

+1.

Resorted to the bus during the snow, the bus fare was more expensive than fuel for the car - if you're paying to run a car anyway, chances are it won't save you any money unless you commit to it and get a long-term bus pass. Although by my maths, the slight saving on a bus pass over fuel didn't justify spending 1hr30 every day surrounded by pikeys (although bus demographics may vary by region).

[Babs]

(although bus demographics may vary by region).

No they don't! All buses are full of pikeys!

['daiking']

A

Good luck getting to work on time!

Work operates a flexi-time system :p

All the drawbacks rob mentions will be there but I'm looking on this as a 3 month experiment. It will take a lot longer but i can use that as an opportunity to read for a change and the family will be away (as will i for a few weeks) so I'm not missing anything at home whilst on the bus.

As for the money, petrol is now around £4.50 a day. A daily bus ticket would be £3.50, weekly £3 and monthly £2.50 per day. The saving itself is not worth it for me but if enough people made a change like that then the action may be felt. Don't forget that HMG sees most of the £100 a month for fuel to commute i spend. If i start spending £50 a month on bus tickets they'll see much, much less. Also, there'a no VAT on bus tickets is there?

[robmawer]

AFAIK, travel on anything which is designed to carry more than 10 people is zero-rated for VAT, so no you wouldn't be paying VAT on bus tickets.

Not sure I'd want to do such an experiment over summer...sweaty pikeys on a non-air-conditioned bus?

['daiking']

AFAIK, travel on anything which is designed to carry more than 10 people is zero-rated for VAT, so no you wouldn't be paying VAT on bus tickets.

Not sure I'd want to do such an experiment over summer...sweaty pikeys on a non-air-conditioned bus?

Ever heard of the tragedy of the commons? I won't pretend that its going to be fantastic but from small acorns as they say.

[Aspman]

Shell had dropped R+D into renewables other than biofuels.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/17/royaldutchshell-energy

And BP seems to be concentrating on the tar sands.

I haven't read that book 'The Tipping Point' but I think we're either there or nearly there with the price of petrol and gas.

[VWD]

No they don't! All buses are full of pikeys!

Not round here -you can't pull a caravan with a bus -it needs a Transit -stupid ( And why Transits - plenty of free spares out there of course . )

[lol-lol]

Frewheeling down hill uses uses more fuel than staying in gear.

Modern cars whilst in gear and you are off the throttle, say going down hill use NO fuel at all. All the fuel is passed back to the fuel tank, instead the engine is kept running by the cars momentum. When you again apply throttle then the fuel is redirected back to the engine.

I have heard this too. My logical thought progression is that by free wheeling you will actually being doing a higher speed at the bottom of the hill than if you left it in gear. An engine at tick over will have lower frictional waste than one in gear with the engine turning at 2 or 3,000 rpm so over the journey free willing is better than leaving in gear is my thoery I work to. It seems to be better on the fuel computer but I would not swear that this measurement is absolute as when one also uses "fuel put in the car and distance travelled", by GPS, give figures about 5% different to the computer, and not always lower strangley enough. Of course tyre pressures/temperature effect the computer measurement. Expect we can better show this by putting a "systems boundary" round the car and considering significant input/outputs but in my little world I am already convinced about free wheeling as other are conversely it appears.

If VAT does go to 20% then we may all be a bit more concerned about consumption and protest. Do not like driving the Company Car (diesel DSG) as much as the TSI-VRS but may have to.

Edited 3 May, 2010 by lol