servicing your car at a non franchise garage and retaining warranty

[fabia55]

I have just found out from s e r v i c i n g s t o p dot co dot uk that you can service your car at a non Skoda garage and retain the warranty.

The law is that I believe as long as the garage uses geniune oem parts to service the car retains warranty under the EU Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulation (MVBER) which has been in place since 2002. I believe this was introduced to allow fair competition so that main dealers can't rip us off by saying we can only go to a main dealers in order to retain warranty and charging us whatever they like.

Let me quote from the government's Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

http://www.berr.gov.uk/Policies/business-law/competition-matters/competition-policy/european-competition-policy/eu-motor-vehicle-block-exemption-regulation

'The EU Motor Vehicle Block Exemption Regulation (MVBER) or European Commission Regulation EC No. 1400/2002 has been in place since 2002. The MVBER covers agreements concerning the distribution and servicing of motor vehicles in the EU and exempts from EU competition rules arrangements for the distribution of new cars and their subsequent servicing.

The MVBER aims to increase competition in the motor vehicle sector in particular in respect of servicing and repairs. This will in turn give consumers more choice and better value for money. The MVBER also aims to enable independent repairers to compete directly with authorised networks.

Background

The MVBER provides an exemption from EU competition rules for agreements and/or concerted practices between undertakings in the motor vehicle sector which improve production or distribution of goods while allowing consumers a fair share of the resulting benefits.

A key feature of the MVBER is to ensure that all service and repair work can be undertaken by any garage whether an authorised or independent dealership. It is essential therefore that independent garages and roadside assistance organisations should have access to spare parts, technical information, specifications and codes including diagnostic equipment and software to carry out this work.

The right of independent garages to be able to compete on equal terms with manufacturer approved outlets was underlined in the UK by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) report into restrictions in new car warranties in 2004. This report recommended that consumers should not be subject to ties to approved garages for servicing within the manufacturer’s warranty period where other service providers were capable of providing the service to the manufacturer’s standard.

The MVBER is directly enforced in the UK by the OFT, who has responsibility for the enforcement of competition rules in the UK. The European Commission is responsible for the MVBER and will take the lead on individual cases which have a Community wide dimension.

It is important to note that neither BIS nor the OFT can advise individuals on the merits of a specific competition case or make representations on their behalf but the OFT can provide advice on procedures for approaching the European Commission. '

I'm not an expert in law so can anyone clarify? Has any serviced their car like this and able to carry out warranty work?

Edited 18 April, 2010 by fabia55

[Hauptmann]

This is quite correct and you should have no problems provided you use a VAT-registered garage. Parts do not have to be VAG-branded, but they must be of 'matching quality' - which most reputable aftermarket parts are. Probably best to stick to Skoda-supplied parts though.

[fabia55]

I'm going to cancel my appointment at the main dealer but before that I need to find a reputable garage who can service skoda/vag, vat registered, preferable someone ex-Skoda if that helps. Also someone who knows how to resit the service indicator.

Anyone know any good garages in west midlands/south staffordshire/walsall//stafford/cannock/hednesford/bloxwich area?

I've booked next week so need to find another garage asap.

p.s. This will potentially save me hundreds of pounds in the long term. I don't intend to service the car at main dealers anyway after the warranty period. At the end of the day main dealers benefit more than getting a higher future market value.

Edited 18 April, 2010 by fabia55

[Babs]

Problem is, a non-main dealer will not have any info on recalls etc.

Also, most people - including myself - would expect to see dealer stamps for the first three years. I'd certainly walk away from a car that hasn't seen a dealer! Even if servicing was done by a well known VAG specialist, like Awesome for example.

[fabia55]

to me dealer stamps mean nothing, from experience the work can be worse. In my case it means they've hardly done anything apart from just an oil change and pollen filter. obviosly people won't know that and think Skoda stamp, must be properly serviced. If I were to DIY I would use better oil than the main dealers.

As for any recalls, have there been any for the Fabia II?

I can't see why I can't take the car to a dealers for any recall work considering my warranty is still retained.

[Babs]

If it's got a stamp you've at least got a service manager to call and fall back on.

My point is that you won't know about the recalls if you service it elsewhere.

[fabia55]

i hope in the event of any recall we can rely on friendly Briskoda members to let everyone know of any recalls...then once we know we can take our cars to main dealers to sort out the recall

[mannyo]

As already mentioned, there is more to the service than the service itself, there are recalls and manufacture service bulletins that the specialist wil not have access to. For example although not a Fabia in this case, there was a service bulletin to flash the octy 2 ecu with the latest software to overcome issues with the DPF clogging up, the specialist would not have access to this or the software and means to program the ECU. There are many more of these bulletins that maybe missed at a specialist.

Also, come resale time if you p/ex then a full main dealer history will add to the value of the car. When I sold my Octy I got a good price for a very high mileage example because it had a full skoda service history. One of the questions asked by the dealer was "Has it got a full Skoda service history",

and, when the warranty runs out and something breaks, eg. the turbo on a TDi the chances of getting a good will payment out of skoda are zero. Skoda have been known to pay half or more of the cost to replace the turbo on cars out of warranty if they had a full skoda history.

Depending on the main dealer you dont really save that much, some are cheaper than some of these independants.

[raisbeck]

Quoting from experience here......My old 1.2 HTP had its cylinder head go due to failure of the valve seats (long story). The car was at 68000 miles. Skoda agreed to pay 60 percent of the total repair bill based on my always having my car serviced on time at a genuine Skoda dealer. Of course I was still pretty miffed about having to pay anything for a known issue with this engine but still, would they have coughed up a penny outside the warranty period if it hadnt had a full Skoda service history ?

I think not. Servicing elsewhere would have given perfect excuse to tell me where to politely go......

[Hauptmann]

I am astonished how many members of the general public think that their rights begin and end with the warranty. The warranty is IN ADDITION to your statutory rights as a consumer. If a cylinder head fails at (say) 68000 miles and four years old then you have every right to redress under Sale of Goods Act. If Skoda won't play ball then you go to Small Claims Court. The only reason 'Goodwill' exists is as a sop to customers to deter them from taking further action.

I have several decades experience in the motor trade and, trust me, a court summons would extract a full settlement. SCC usually decide in favour of the customer in motor trade disputes. They would want to see evidence of regular servicing, but not necessarily Skoda franchised dealer servicing.

As regards Recalls and TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins), if you call Skoda (or a dealer) they HAVE to inform you of any pending recalls or relevant TSB's and conduct the work for you. That is a legal requirement under EU (part of Block Exemption Regulations).

In terms of service work itself my trade experience is that independent VAG specialists do a better job. The simple reason is that most are ex-VAG time served mechanics who have gone as far as they can within a dealership and then leave to set up on their own. A lot of straightforward service work in the dealerships is done by the young learners.

Incidentally, service retention with the VAG dealerships is only around 60% at year 3.

[fabia55]

thanks for the info/replies everyone

As regards Recalls and TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins), if you call Skoda (or a dealer) they HAVE to inform you of any pending recalls or relevant TSB's and conduct the work for you. That is a legal requirement under EU (part of Block Exemption Regulations).

that's what I was thinking, take for example the recent Toyota recalls. Would they not carry out any recall work for cars that were serviced not at a main dealer. Regardless of whether the car was serviced at a specialist or main dealer they have a legal requirement to carry out the recall. We have all these laws on our side.

[raisbeck]

I am astonished how many members of the general public think that their rights begin and end with the warranty. The warranty is IN ADDITION to your statutory rights as a consumer. If a cylinder head fails at (say) 68000 miles and four years old then you have every right to redress under Sale of Goods Act. If Skoda won't play ball then you go to Small Claims Court. The only reason 'Goodwill' exists is as a sop to customers to deter them from taking further action.

I have several decades experience in the motor trade and, trust me, a court summons would extract a full settlement. SCC usually decide in favour of the customer in motor trade disputes. They would want to see evidence of regular servicing, but not necessarily Skoda franchised dealer servicing.

As regards Recalls and TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins), if you call Skoda (or a dealer) they HAVE to inform you of any pending recalls or relevant TSB's and conduct the work for you. That is a legal requirement under EU (part of Block Exemption Regulations).

In terms of service work itself my trade experience is that independent VAG specialists do a better job. The simple reason is that most are ex-VAG time served mechanics who have gone as far as they can within a dealership and then leave to set up on their own. A lot of straightforward service work in the dealerships is done by the young learners.

Incidentally, service retention with the VAG dealerships is only around 60% at year 3.

In my situation I had a busted car and an absolute need to get back on the road ASAP. I spat my dummy out and vented my spleen at Skoda over my cars issue and battled for what they offered. Yes I did demand a response which if I wasnt satisfied would go to court. I didnt like having to do it and my opinion of Skoda was somewhat dented but I am still driving a Skoda as I believe the brand is generally a good one.

Taking Skoda to court could end up in me losing and costs awarded to Skoda. Its easy to sit back and say what people should do in any given situation . I fought hard to get what I did out of Skoda and my point still stands. They couldnt use the arguement of poor servicing against me which I believe contributed to them coughing up a large portion of the cost.

I work in an industry that has on occasion led to litigation from customers. It can go either way no matter what the facts. Sometimes you need to look at what you have got and decide whether you really want to go through the stress and hassle of maybe....yes maybe getting everything you feel you have a right to.

The law is black and white. Real life sadly isnt.

I wish I had your insider information on the quality of servicing. Unfortunately us general public have to trust that what happens behind those garage doors is competent and to some degree value for money, be it main dealer or otherwise.

[Hauptmann]

Taking Skoda to court could end up in me losing and costs awarded to Skoda.

The only cost you would likely incur is the loss of the court fee if you lost the case (a fairly nominal sum in the case you mention). Skoda would not be able to claim 'costs' against you if they won. Furthermore the case would be held in a court local to you, so your defendant would not only have to pay for a solicitor but also for travel and probably accommodation local to the court.

In general, my experience is that a 'Letter Before Action' threatening a SCC summons, together with mention of the costs you are likely to claim (day off work, hire car whilst yours is repaired etc) are usually enough to extract a sensible settlement. I have been involved in both sides of SCC and I know how it works. I am amazed that more people don't use it, its an extremely low risk way of settling a dispute. Builders and motor trade are the main defendants In SCC cases, so the judge involved will have seen many similar cases before.

The aspect of demanding a dealer service record for a 'Goodwill' payment is extremely dodgy and possibly illegal (in the context of BER) and is in itself possible grounds for a claim.

[Raglits]

I had a letter from the DVLA in conjunction the manufacturer telling me about the recall on my Saab... Ok, it was serviced at a main dealer because it was a company car and I didn't see the bills, but as long as the car is correctly registered, then a safety critical recall will get to you anyway. It's the advisories that may not get to you if the indy doesn't have access to them

[raisbeck]

The only cost you would likely incur is the loss of the court fee if you lost the case (a fairly nominal sum in the case you mention). Skoda would not be able to claim 'costs' against you if they won. Furthermore the case would be held in a court local to you, so your defendant would not only have to pay for a solicitor but also for travel and probably accommodation local to the court.

In general, my experience is that a 'Letter Before Action' threatening a SCC summons, together with mention of the costs you are likely to claim (day off work, hire car whilst yours is repaired etc) are usually enough to extract a sensible settlement. I have been involved in both sides of SCC and I know how it works. I am amazed that more people don't use it, its an extremely low risk way of settling a dispute. Builders and motor trade are the main defendants In SCC cases, so the judge involved will have seen many similar cases before.

The aspect of demanding a dealer service record for a 'Goodwill' payment is extremely dodgy and possibly illegal (in the context of BER) and is in itself possible grounds for a claim.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think it was too long ago now to take any action. Besides I no longer own the car. I will in future be a lot more proactive about pursuing the legal route if SCC is how you describe. My only experience of courts is the full blown affair with claims in the tens of thousands.

Before I bought my current car I did look in to the viability of using non Skoda garages. Right or wrong I will be using a Skoda dealer for the Warranty period. I like the idea of a garage looking at my car who know it inside out because they see so many of them.

Having bought a car with a DPF without having fully researching it ,I suspect the SCC may be useful in the future !!

[Guest]

This is a really interesting thread. Being ex motor trade myself I agree with Hauptmann on the legalities. I confess I don't service my own motor, or even my motorcycles these days, lack of time. But I have through experience found my main dealer for Skoda and my Suzuki motorcycle to be superb...and wait for it...cheaper too than the independents I have used in the past. A well know local independent who looked after my Fiat vehicles was quoting much more for the first service on my Fabia than the dealer. The independent came out at £90 all inclusive, my Skoda dealer was just £76 and he covered everything that needed doing including a good general inspection. Being ex-tech I was keen to know it was being serviced correctly...it was! Shop around by all means at servicing times but don't ignore your main dealer and the benefits they can bring you now and in the future. Incidentally, if you use your main Skoda dealer, most of them don't charge for any software upgrades out of the warranty period. It just gets done at servicing time. If you have been going to an independent, understandably, any main Skoda dealer will then charge you once the car is out of warranty. This was the case for one of my Fiats...and involved taking two hours off work, and paying Fiat £45 to hook it up to their machinery. The job actually took 15mins!

Edited 19 April, 2010 by Estate Man

[robmawer]

This will potentially save me hundreds of pounds in the long term.

You might want to phone a few reputable independents for quotes before you jump to this conclusion. In my experience, decent reputable independents are not working for less than dealers - people go them because they have confidence in the quality of the work, not because they're cheaper. Independents also have high overheads for salaries, training and equipment - if somewhere is cheap, there's a good chance they've cut corners on one of those; personally I wouldn't want a clueless chimp using the wrong the tools on my car for the sake of saving a few quid.

[Ranger]

Despite the perception that main agents are an expensive way of keeping your car on the road, I've found that they can often work out cheaper. My Pug 206 needed servicing and I called a dozen dealers and independent Peugeot specialists. The difference between the dearest and the cheapest was almost £200 (£211 against £395) and a main agent was the cheapest!

[Hauptmann]

It is certainly true that independents are not always cheaper. Servicing is particularly competitve and so franchised dealers will often be no more expensive. Where an independent can save you a great deal of money is on non-routine work such as brake or clutch replacements, or suspension work, replacement of failed sensors etc. They will often use OE-spec parts (from Eurocarparts) and their labour rates for such jobs can be 50% those of a main dealer. They will also tend to use repaired or reconditioned parts (e..g. rotating electrics, ECU's etc) whereas the dealer will only use new.

Main dealers work mostly on newish cars and many do not have much experience with older vehicles and the often more complex problems that they bring. A lot of the younger techs at main dealers are also taught to replace rather than repair. This pushes the cost up for the customer. Another thing which VAG are fond of is their so-called 'guided fault finding' in which the technician has to got through a set procedure of replacing specific parts when a certain fault is flagged - even if he is sure that the part is not faulty! Basically its a way of de-skilling the fault finding process, but at an additional cost to the customer. Its here that the often greater experience of an independent will win out.

One of the reasons that main dealer servicing/repair work has become so expensive in recent years is that dealerships have not been making much money on new cars. This means that service departments have been required to subsidise the entire dealerships. Service managers (and parts managers) are often on tight targets and are encouraged to 'upsell' and I know for a fact that for the less scrupulous this can involve 'finding' extra work at service time. Brake replacement is a favourite since customer resistance to brake work is generally low (its safety related) and margins on brake parts are very high.

[Babs]

Also, my Audi A4 cambelt was cheaper at the Audi dealer than it was at the local specialists!

[fabia55]

You might want to phone a few reputable independents for quotes before you jump to this conclusion. In my experience, decent reputable independents are not working for less than dealers - people go them because they have confidence in the quality of the work, not because they're cheaper. Independents also have high overheads for salaries, training and equipment - if somewhere is cheap, there's a good chance they've cut corners on one of those; personally I wouldn't want a clueless chimp using the wrong the tools on my car for the sake of saving a few quid.

From the one VAG specialist I got a quote for (not rang round all VAG specialists yet) they were indeed cheaper. They specialize in VAG cars, they buy in the same oil as the main dealers. In fact they do more for less.

So main dealers only change oil and pollen filter + the recommended brake fluid.

Reputable VAG specialist, oil change, pollen filter change, brake fluid, air filter, oil filter, checks/ inspection as with main dealer and a few other parts (can't remember everything).

Both places claim to use manufacturer recommended oil, both using oem parts, both reset the computer and both retain warranty.

I'm not saying every VAG specialist is cheaper but from the one VAG specialist I asked for a quote it was cheaper for more work.

The main reason for originally choosing a main dealer is to retain warranty.

[lemonvrs]

I had my Fabia serviced today by a franchised dealer for £70 for a 10k service. No idea what oil they used at that price, probably chip fat Independant wanted £100.

Mind you, the service indicator no longer counts down like it used to so they probably didnt reset it properly.

[Hauptmann]

£70 is a very good price, assuming they used the correct spec oil etc. Many VW dealers currently have an offer where they will match any quote given by another garage within (IIRC) a 7 mile radius.

Remember that the cost of garage work is always 'negotiable' and as with tyres, exhausts etc it can pay to ring around and play one off against another.

Most modern cars are very easy to service and technicians can usually complete the job in less than book time. Be on the look out for 'upselling' - e.g. brakes, shocks etc., which main dealers can really sting you for. You can have the service done at the dealer, get the stamp, and have any extra work done elsewhere.

[lemonvrs]

Well, I asked what oil they use and they gave this reply....

Quote,

The oil we use is supplied in bulk from a supplier, but the grade required is 5W30 and the oil is Semi-Synthetic, you can’t purchase this oil over the counter as it is only bulk supplied. It is equivalent to, or exceeds the specification of all high street available oils and will mix with any of these oils as long as they are of the same grade as ours.

Im a bit concerned about the semi synthetic bit :S

[Hauptmann]

Personally I would be happier to see a fully-synth in there...