Hi guys,

As some of you may know from my previous posts, my parents are looking for an Octavia to replace their current, aging, car. They've decided they want a diesel, and have been looking at both the 1.9l PD and 2.0l PD versions.

Looking at the brochure I know that:

• The 2.0l seems to develop a fair amount of extra power, and develops more torque lower down (250Nm @ 1,900rpm vs 320Nm @ 1,750rpm).
  
• The 2.0l is less fuel-efficient than the 1.9l (a difference of about 4mpg urban and 6mpg extra-urban).
  
• The 2.0l has a 6-speed gearbox, whereas the 1.9l has a 5-speed gearbox.
  
• The 2.0l is 2 VED bands higher than the 1.9l. According to the brochure, this is only a £5 increase, although I'm sure that will change in the future.
  
• The 2.0l is 4 insurance groups higher than an equivalent 1.9l (group 10 vs 6), although due to my parents' age, this isn't a problem (but means I will be prohibited from driving it in an emergency for a bit - maybe that's why they're looking at it! ).
  
• I believe that in some cases 1.9l PD could be fitted with a DPF, but the 2.0l wasn't.
  

Are there any other relative merits/demerits of these engines that I've missed? Do either of them have any "interesting" quirks or issues? (e.g. I know one of the 1.4l petrol Fabia engines had piston-ring issues)

Looking at some of the adverts around, there are some cars that are same except for the engine, and with very little difference in price (and both are from reputable dealers). My dad's reaction was to go for the 2.0l in that case ...

Thanks for any input!

P.S. Sorry about this being my 3rd "newbie" post about Octavia's and their engines - I'm very sure there won't be a 4th!

The 1.9 tdi PD engine is a tried and tested unit with little problems where as there has been oil pump problems resulting in total pump failure with the 2.0 tdi PD engine , If you budget stretches far enough go for a

2.0 tdi CR engined model and if not stick with the 1.9 tdi PD unit

Looking at the brochure I know that:

• The 2.0l seems to develop a fair amount of extra power, and develops more torque lower down (250Nm @ 1,900rpm vs 320Nm @ 1,750rpm).
  

I'm not sure you've interpreted the torque situation correctly. Whilst those figures are correct, they don't really represent "low down" torque, but rather the maximum torque on turbo. I'm not 100% sure, so I'd be pleased to stand corrected if wrong, but my interpretation would be that the 1.9TDI would have better low down torque that the 2.0 (140bhp) TDI because it's an 8 valve vs 16 valve engine - lower number of valves per cylinder should generate more normally aspirated torque (ie, before the turbo kicks in), and it's the torque at 1000-1750rpm you are really interested in, before the turbo kicks in.

In my experience the 1.9TDI is quite happy to potter around at ~1400rpm and will happily pick up from there (and even lower). Don't get me wrong, it doesn't pick up like a vrs launching off the line but you don't need to constantly be changing down to keep revs up if you don't want to. I have no direct experience of the 2.0TDI to compare against. In contrast I had a 1.4TDI Fabia loan car that virtually stalled below 1900-2000rpm - it had nothing below that and you were constantly changing down to maintain revs (eg, 2nd gear at every roundabout whereas the 1.9TDI Octavia is quite happy in 3rd on roundabouts).

• I believe that in some cases 1.9l PD could be fitted with a DPF, but the 2.0l wasn't.
  

I thought all UK 1.9TDIs don't have DPF (they may have been fitted abroad??).

Edited 25 July, 201015 yr by Phil_P

In my experience of driving both the 1.9pd happily pulls from slightly lower than the 2l pd. The 2l pd needs to be driven more like a petrol turbo keeping the revs a little higher.

With regards fuel economy, don't be hung up about the 2l being less economical, mine on normal driving is high 40's but doe to towing a caravan brings my overall average down to low/mid 40's.

The 1.9 feels a little more tractor like and also sounds a little noiser when driving compared to the 2l.

Honest advise, find a dealer with both and get your parents to take them both for a test drive and decide which driving style they prefer.

I've had the 1.9 and the 2.0TDi.

The 2.0 is only quicker if you are prepared to rev higher before changing-up. The 1.9 is more flexible and pulls much better from low revs. The 2.0 has a quieter engine but at motorway speed there is hardly any difference in noise level at 70-80mph, most of the noise seems to come from wind-resistance and tyre roar. Above 80 the 1.9 seems to get a lot louder whereas the 2.0 seems pretty relaxed - presumably due to the 6th gear.

Not much difference in fuel economy on long A-road and motorway runs, but the 1.9 is much more economical in town driving.

It;s a no brainer for me, why would anyone choose an engine that has a known oil pump drive failure problem and a dealer network that will not accept liability for it? (in case you don't know i am referring to the 140 PD)

1.9 all the way .

It's not clear to me whether your parents are looking for a new or second-hand car? If they are looking at a new or demonstrator vehicle, as I understand it, all 2.0L Octavia diesels produced since Week 22 of 2010 (mid-April) are CR (as opposed to PD) diesels that don't suffer from the oil pump problem.

It's not clear to me whether your parents are looking for a new or second-hand car? If they are looking at a new or demonstrator vehicle, as I understand it, all 2.0L Octavia diesels produced since Week 22 of 2010 (mid-April) are CR (as opposed to PD) diesels that don't suffer from the oil pump problem.

I'm assuming the OP is looking at second-hand as neither of these engines are available new any more, both having recently reached end of production.

Thanks for the input, guys.

Sorry if I don't reply directly to you, but I'll try to reply in general (just to keep things short and without repeating anything) ...

I'm not sure you've interpreted the torque situation correctly. Whilst those figures are correct, they don't really represent "low down" torque, but rather the maximum torque on turbo. I'm not 100% sure, so I'd be pleased to stand corrected if wrong, but my interpretation would be that the 1.9TDI would have better low down torque that the 2.0 (140bhp) TDI because it's an 8 valve vs 16 valve engine - lower number of valves per cylinder should generate more normally aspirated torque (ie, before the turbo kicks in), and it's the torque at 1000-1750rpm you are really interested in, before the turbo kicks in.

Doh!

I thought all UK 1.9TDIs don't have DPF (they may have been fitted abroad??).

I thought so too - I just saw on Wikipedia that the 1.9TDI engine could have a DPF fitted, so thought I'd ask to be sure (I know you often can't trust Wikipedia).

With regards fuel economy, don't be hung up about the 2l being less economical, mine on normal driving is high 40's but doe to towing a caravan brings my overall average down to low/mid 40's.

Yeah, the book figures seem very nice for both w.r.t. fuel efficiency. I can see there being a slight "competition" between us when they get the new car, seeing as I've just got through the last tank of diesel in my Fabia at 55.2mpg (measured) on almost exclusively town driving, which they've been very impressed with.

The 1.9 feels a little more tractor like and also sounds a little noiser when driving compared to the 2l.

Honest advise, find a dealer with both and get your parents to take them both for a test drive and decide which driving style they prefer.

My parents test-drove a 2.0 over the weekend - they said that both were very similar, and although the 1.9 they'd tried was very nice, the 2.0 was just "more" (a bit quieter, felt the same to drive except a little bit more "verve"). They're never going to thrash it - just normal driving - so both will have more than enough "go" in them.

Like you said, the best thing is to try one of each to test-drive, but it's always sensible to get the opinions of owners too as a backup! Both felt more refined than their 2.0 petrol Vauxhall, and my PD100 Fabia apparently (I was only around for the 1.9 test drive, which was quieter than my Fabia).

It's not clear to me whether your parents are looking for a new or second-hand car?

Oh, sorry - they're looking at used.

there has been oil pump problems resulting in total pump failure with the 2.0 tdi PD engine

Hmm ... that's worrying. Do you have an idea of how common/widespread it is? I've done a Google search on this, and it seems to be mostly Passats and Superbs that this happens to? A search on the engine codes for the Octavia (BKD, AVZ) doesn't seem to yield many/any hits, and I can't really find anything within the Octavia board?

Thanks for the input, guys.

Sorry if I don't reply directly to you, but I'll try to reply in general (just to keep things short and without repeating anything) ...

Doh!

I thought so too - I just saw on Wikipedia that the 1.9TDI engine could have a DPF fitted, so thought I'd ask to be sure (I know you often can't trust Wikipedia).

Yeah, the book figures seem very nice for both w.r.t. fuel efficiency. I can see there being a slight "competition" between us when they get the new car, seeing as I've just got through the last tank of diesel in my Fabia at 55.2mpg (measured) on almost exclusively town driving, which they've been very impressed with.

My parents test-drove a 2.0 over the weekend - they said that both were very similar, and although the 1.9 they'd tried was very nice, the 2.0 was just "more" (a bit quieter, felt the same to drive except a little bit more "verve"). They're never going to thrash it - just normal driving - so both will have more than enough "go" in them.

Like you said, the best thing is to try one of each to test-drive, but it's always sensible to get the opinions of owners too as a backup! Both felt more refined than their 2.0 petrol Vauxhall, and my PD100 Fabia apparently (I was only around for the 1.9 test drive, which was quieter than my Fabia).

Oh, sorry - they're looking at used.

Hmm ... that's worrying. Do you have an idea of how common/widespread it is? I've done a Google search on this, and it seems to be mostly Passats and Superbs that this happens to? A search on the engine codes for the Octavia (BKD, AVZ) doesn't seem to yield many/any hits, and I can't really find anything within the Octavia board?

Ask you parents which is more important , A bit more oomph with the 2.0 PD unit and the added risk of a potential huge bill if the worst were to happen or a the same car with the 1.9 PD unit which is better on fuel less likely to give problems but only slightly more noisy ?

It's not clear to me whether your parents are looking for a new or second-hand car? If they are looking at a new or demonstrator vehicle, as I understand it, all 2.0L Octavia diesels produced since Week 22 of 2010 (mid-April) are CR (as opposed to PD) diesels that don't suffer from the oil pump problem.

I thought that oil pump issue was only to do with engines installed in Superbs

I thought that oil pump issue was only to do with engines installed in Superbs

I think the problem not only affected Superb's but any of the VAG group cars fitted with this engine , my neighbours SEAT Leon 2.0 Tdi PD suffered the same fate at 49,000 miles

I think the problem not only affected Superb's but any of the VAG group cars fitted with this engine , my neighbours SEAT Leon 2.0 Tdi PD suffered the same fate at 49,000 miles

That's very interesting.

Time to look get the sump off and this checked perhaps.

I've certainly never seen anything like this mentioned on anything but a N-S oriented engine so to actually see a report on an E-W mounted car is a potential worry.

Edited 26 July, 201015 yr by cheezemonkhai

The 2.0 PD Engine used in the octavia does not have the oil pump issue as its a totally different engine to that used in the superb mk1 which does have the problem. I did nearly 100K miles in my Octy PD 2.0 and had no problems at all. I only sold it as I wanted a larger car for driving across europe which I do frequently.

One other difference, the 1.9PD is an 8 valve single cam engine, the 2.0PD is a 16 valve DOHC engine and as such is quieter than the 1.9.

That's very interesting.

Time to look get the sump off and this checked perhaps.

I've certainly never seen anything like this on a N-S oriented engine so to actually see a report on an E-W mounted car is a worry.

Read the Honest John reviews section on the 140 bhp PD engine thats fitted to many of the cars made by the VAG group there have been numerous case's of oil pump failure's

Edited 26 July, 201015 yr by stevensmith91

Read the Honest John reviews section on the 140 bhp PD engine thats fitted to many of the cars made by the VAG group there have been numerous case's of oil pump failure's

I missed something out, but I know there have been many problems in N-S installations.

My understanding of the oil pump issue is that early PD 2.0 use a chain driven balance shaft which also drives the oil pump via a hex shaft in the pump itself. Oil pump issues could arise from either failure of the chain drive to the balancer shaft (hence no drive to the oil pump), or alternatively the hex drive itself would round off (due to the torsional stress/vibration from the balancer shaft and chain drive) again resulting in no drive to the oil pump.

Later PD 2.0 use a similar balancer shaft but with a different oil pump and gear drive. It is claimed that the gear drive smoothes out stress on the oil pump hex shaft so it should run much better. However it does not entirely negate the threat of failure of the hex shaft.

Can somebody with more technical knowledge than me confirm the above? Also somebody with access to ETKA should be able to confirm the engine codes of chain driven motors (which are allegedly more at risk), and whether the hex drive arrangement on the oil pump itself was modified/replaced as a result of the move to gear drive and the use of a different oil pump?

Regards

Minimoke

BTW I have a copy of an article from Audi Driver magazine about this point of weakness in the PD 2.0 engine. But I think its not entirely com0plete – its dated May 2009 but has a diagram illustrating the chain drive balance shaft system. It does not mention the (newer) gear driven system at all.

Hi everyone!

I am new here and need some advice please.


I am looking to buy a 2010 Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI PD.
Registered 09.04.2010. 85000 miles.

Would like to find out if that car is free from those problems mentioned in this thread?

Any help would be appreciated.


Please help me kind of urgent as I need to decide before the weekend.



Thank you


Jan

I mean, not that specific car but that year - 2010's Octavias.

 

 

Thanks

Despite what a lot of people have said on this thread, the oil pump issue mentioned here is and never was an issue on any 2.0 diesel engine fitted to the Octavia.

 

One thing to consider if you are looking at 2010 models......if you get one that was built from September 2010 onwards, it'll be a CR engine and not a PD. The CR will be a bit more refined and will be a bit more economical than the PD.