been test driving for a new car

[vRSy]

Well going through our finances i dont think i can stretch to running two cars so were going to sell both cars now and get one single car so im on the look out. After AWD, good interior and good power. Now the interior issue negates the EVO and Impreza being elligable, leaving me with the 6MPS and S3. I drove both today in ashford (both 56 plate and both under 50k mileage).

Anyway, we all know the S3 is good so about the MPS then. Always a treat when they give you the car on your own and say bring it back when your finished.

Well: i really liked it actually. And the missus liked it as well, which is a bonus, as it saves me ear ache if i buy something she doesnt like. for instance she was 100% against the impreza.

1-Loved the look of it in black. really stealth in appearance, the ride height was perfect which is a bonus. The vRS looked like it was on stilts. It rode the bumps very very well. And the interior is very nice indeed, although the front seats could definitely do with bigger side bolsters. What i like is the fixed options list. the only available option on these was the sat nav. everything else, and i mean everything is std,

2-Handling. I was deliberately burying the throttle early on bends to get it to lose traction, and it just grips really quickly. really impressed with that as well. Although it does understeer a little when on the power mid bend and it definitely could do with the rear ARB and a bit more neg camber on the front to keep the nose tucked in(no where near as bad as a std vRS though). I don't think id change the springs TBH, maybe just the dampers. They had some cheopo pirelli tyres on which id change for something stickier.

A few things i wasnt keen on though.

1- 1st-4th gears are really short. i mean seriously 4th gear and only just over 100mph : eek2 : whats that about. It definitely felt like i was changing gear alot, and im not sure what it would be like on track with gears that short. That said the gear shift was nice and short. Much better shift than my vRS which had a forge shifter fitted.

2- Power felt great up to about 4500rpm, then it definitely dies down at the top end in all the gears. Not to much of an issue as reducing the air flow restrictions(intake/exhaust) and mapping it would cure this big style. And dare i say it, there is a slight hint of lag between burying it, and the car responding

here is my thought on this though. As said before the gears a really short, and that's with 256hp/280Ibft. Increasing this to 310Hp+/360Ibft+ would make it rev ALOT faster so, im thinking it could get frantic with the gear changes.

3-Clutch!!- Presumably 4x4 grip will eat a clutch quicker than FWD. This car had covered 45k, and was not capable of a full bore start. granted you never know how much abuse its taken, but launching with 3k and it just couldn't bite. (maybe its me not launching AWD correctly, although i drove an S3 and it had no issue with this)

4-Brakes- sort of unknown area as i have no idea on the state of the fluids etc. the pads looked ok, but the brakes were definitely the weakest point of this car, and id be certain they wouldn't last on a track day. Definitely something i'd change when i pick one up.

well as i said earlier i also drove a 56 plate S3 today to help and get a base to compare the car against. Well the S3 had much better brakes, and handled marginally better, with much more midrange. however for the same age car it was £6000 more expensive than the 6MPS : eek2 : : eek2 : it might be the better car, but it isn't £6k better. Is also a little to small for me as well.

There were a couple marks on that one that put me of of it, and it was quite highly priced for its age as well, so I'm going to search around instead for a better version. The guy tried to sweeten it with the 12 month mechanical warranty, but that would be voided immediately when i start modding it, so would be a waste.

Im thinking considering its 256Hp/280Ibft standard it should reach 310Hp/360Ibft with a few bolt ons and some custom mapping. i think it'd be a great Q car, that would catch alot of quick cars out

Anyone have experience of these cars?

[auroan]

Surprised you compared a 6mps to an S3. Smallish hatch v largish saloon ?

[Neo_VR]

I had a 3 MPS for 18 months

The MPS is in top-band for road tax... £440-ish a year, and drinks far more fuel than a S3 would. i would get 25mpg normal driving and struggle to break 30 on the mway.

The engine does respond very well to intake/turbo intake and a turbo-back exhaust.. but your looking at 1500quid before you even look into mapping.. by which point you find the turbo is on the verge of being too small for the motor and you get rather ugly boost-spikes when coming on boost unless its mapped accordingly (and a proper map is around £700-900 quid). and also factor in an uprated high-pressure pump, which like the 2.0TFSI vw engines allow much better mid-range performance....

Theres not many companies in the UK who can tune these cars and ive heard horror stories about some of them too.. so it makes it expensive and a bit hit and miss.

Other issues:

Full bore starts will snap the rear diff mountings.. common weak point... the haldex 4x4 on the MPS is different from the S3 that it "pre-loads" itself and sends power to the rear wheels automatically like when moving off, this is different from the S3 which only transfers drive when it detects slip on the front wheels (unless you get the uprated haldex controller which totally transforms the car!!!)

Dealers: the MPS is quite a specialist car, i had several issues with dealers

Basically its a mway muncher rather than a b-road blaster... i felt the same way with the 3MPS which is a faster and better handling car than the 6.

TBH as much as i loved my MPS, the Audi would work out cheaper in the long run.. much cheaper to extract more power, cheaper to service, cheaper road tax. not to mention better resale value.

[vRSy]

Surprised you compared a 6mps to an S3. Smallish hatch v largish saloon ?

key factors for me are AWD, good interiors std power of around 260Hp, remapped power of about 350Hp. very good interiors, and rare ish

[auroan]

Why not A4, A5, A6 quattys ?

[vRSy]

£440-ish a year, and drinks far more fuel than a S3 would. i would get 25mpg normal driving and struggle to break 30 on the mway.

this is what i used to get on my vRS lol

The engine does respond very well to intake/turbo intake and a turbo-back exhaust.. but your looking at 1500quid before you even look into mapping.. by which point you find the turbo is on the verge of being too small for the motor and you get rather ugly boost-spikes when coming on boost unless its mapped accordingly (and a proper map is around £700-900 quid). and also factor in an uprated high-pressure pump, which like the 2.0TFSI vw engines allow much better mid-range performance....

Theres not many companies in the UK who can tune these cars and ive heard horror stories about some of them too.. so it makes it expensive and a bit hit and miss.

from the research i've done, the only company's that people advise to touch your car are specific ecutek tuners, and sanspeed being the most highly regarded/popular. apparently they are very good, spending a considerable amount of time on each car to get it right on the dyno. From what ive seen these cars are good for 320Hp with all the bolt on mods, with more impressive torque than the TFSI's. i will settle for a good flat plateau of 310Hp.

Other issues:

Full bore starts will snap the rear diff mountings.. common weak point... the haldex 4x4 on the MPS is different from the S3 that it "pre-loads" itself and sends power to the rear wheels automatically like when moving off, this is different from the S3 which only transfers drive when it detects slip on the front wheels (unless you get the uprated haldex controller which totally transforms the car!!!)

ill have a look for potential uprated options for this i think

Dealers: the MPS is quite a specialist car, i had several issues with dealers

Basically its a mway muncher rather than a b-road blaster... i felt the same way with the 3MPS which is a faster and better handling car than the 6.

TBH as much as i loved my MPS, the Audi would work out cheaper in the long run.. much cheaper to extract more power, cheaper to service, cheaper road tax. not to mention better resale value.

power wise, id say its pretty similar to extract the power out. but i do get you about the tax and servicing. but for some reason i prefer the MPS. i like big saloons/hatches

S3

itg intake £340

uprated HPFP -£350

miltek TBE- £1100

stage 2+ remap -£700

6 MPS

corksport intake(SRI) £210

CPE 3" cat back £650

3" downpipe and cat £450

HPFP £350

custom ecutek remap £500-700

so pretty similar in price to mod, with similar Bhp once fully tuned. im not bothered about massive peak power, as above i just want a genuine 310Hp+ car that can put the power down in all weathers. the S3 is far to expensive in comparison, and if anything a little to small.

this is from a 6 mps with the above mods, and one of the lower performing cars. there are quite a few now making over 340 on dyno dynamics rollers

[vRSy]

Why not A4, A5, A6 quattys ?

damn you lol. that could be an option, but its still the same k03 engine in a heavier car than the vRS. I want my car to make over 300Hp. not really an opiton with this unles i change the turbo which is a pain in the ass on this anyway as the engine is sidewards, and uprated intakes are pretty much non existent etc. the MPS is already running 60Hp/73Ibft more in standard trim. the audi would require an exhaust and stage 2 for that

[Royston]

I had a 56 plate 6 MPS and ran it for just under a year. It was a fast capable car, but too boring for me I'm afraid. The interior was very good though - extremely comfortable and loads of toys like you say. It always seemed like it needed a bit of tweaking, and I agree with the gearing being too short. I never tracked it but had some fun on the back lanes once or twice, and the bias is definitely towards RWD on the AWD system. I really wished I'd have gone for a black one, they look mean as f**k.

I say go for it if you can afford the running costs and the extra parts for it. The US tuners are leaps and bounds ahead of the UK on MPS tuning, or Mazdaspeed as they call it. Their forums have a wealth of info but it's hard to find anyone who'll do a good job of carrying out the work over here. You might end up with a rare sorted Q car that goes beyond the boring standard version and gives you a lot of enjoyment.

[auroan]

damn you lol. that could be an option, but its still the same k03 engine in a heavier car than the vRS. I want my car to make over 300Hp. not really an opiton with this unles i change the turbo which is a pain in the ass on this anyway as the engine is sidewards, and uprated intakes are pretty much non existent etc. the MPS is already running 60Hp/73Ibft more in standard trim. the audi would require an exhaust and stage 2 for that

Eh, engines are longitudinal in the 4,5,6 and are actually easier to work on. Plus look away from the 2.0T units as they are the low end stuff in these cars. V6 upwards is where it's at on these.

[vRSy]

Eh, engines are longitudinal in the 4,5,6 and are actually easier to work on. Plus look away from the 2.0T units as they are the low end stuff in these cars. V6 upwards is where it's at on these.

ive done the V6 thing on 4 of my previous cars. they are big, and heavy and not really what im after. i want lots of low down torque and grunt. which needs a turbo car to be honest. And i want to modify it as well, and turbo charged cars are where its at for £/Bhp.

i know the engines are easier to work on, but the TFSI is still going to top out at the same as the vRS, and the k04 conversion is a no go due to the orientation of the engine.

i have however found myself looking at the old S4 bi-turbos lol. arghhhhh not to expensive but all high mileage though

[Neo_VR]

What about a subaru legacy?... ticks all your boxes lol

[auroan]

ive done the V6 thing on 4 of my previous cars. they are big, and heavy and not really what im after. i want lots of low down torque and grunt. which needs a turbo car to be honest. And i want to modify it as well, and turbo charged cars are where its at for £/Bhp.

i know the engines are easier to work on, but the TFSI is still going to top out at the same as the vRS, and the k04 conversion is a no go due to the orientation of the engine.

i have however found myself looking at the old S4 bi-turbos lol. arghhhhh not to expensive but all high mileage though

K04 conversion isn't impossible. I'm looking at a kit for mine which will take it to about 310bhp which works out at £3500 inc VAT. For that you get Turbo, mani, hi pressure fuel pump, injectors, all bolts/gaskets and a 3 mode remap switchable via cruise.

[vRSy]

APR do a kit, but as you say £3500, but intakes are few and far between etc, so that is a big limiting factor

But the mps will tune to the same output maybe more, for only £2000 and its cheaper alot cheaper to buy in the first place as their residuals meant second hand prices slumped. plus becasue of the horrendous fuel and tax bands you can really barter with people.

the only thing that is making me consider the A4 is the fact is is full time proper 4wd. and if im going to spend out all the money on an A4 and then a turbo conversion im into S3 territory so in this case the S3 would make more sense.

[auroan]

I don't understand the facination with intakes. You can't get much better at all than the stock intake for the longitundinal engines, hence the lack of them on the market.

[vRSy]

the intake is still really restrictive and if your after getting the maximum safe power out of the engine, which i would be, you would want a good intake. the difference on a k04 stage 2+ cars with standard and uprated intake is over 20Hp. ive seen enough before/after dyno graphs to prove that as well.

it is a very interesting option though. what chassis is the A4 based on? is it the same as the VW passat or jetta? theres a potential for some good power as std though with WMI. so im not writing it off, its dfinately a good alternative to the MPS. plus i know the TFSI engine inside out now, so know xactly what route i would take for modifying if i was to do it. although this is kind o the reason i wanted a change in the first place.

[auroan]

The B6/B7/B8 A4 chassis isn't shared with anything. The only chassis Audi shares with the rest of VAG is the A3. You must be talking about intake gains for the transverse engines because even big power BT conversions on the A4 keep the stock intakes. 400bhp Stage III APR A4s running GT2871R turbos still run with the factory intake.

[swordstoke]

The B6/B7/B8 A4 chassis isn't shared with anything. The only chassis Audi shares with the rest of VAG is the A3. You must be talking about intake gains for the transverse engines because even big power BT conversions on the A4 keep the stock intakes. 400bhp Stage III APR A4s running GT2871R turbos still run with the factory intake.

Thought the B6 is used on the Superb and B7 on the Exeo?

Do like the S4 ! What about a 330i/d tourer? Both got fun factor and practical too..

[vRSy]

Thought the B6 is used on the Superb and B7 on the Exeo?

Do like the S4 ! What about a 330i/d tourer? Both got fun factor and practical too..

i have thought bout BMWs, and Alpinas and im a mega fan of them but id be scared about the wife driving one in the rain and snow as well.

[SnailUK]

i have thought bout BMWs, and Alpinas and im a mega fan of them but id be scared about the wife driving one in the rain and snow as well.

You'd have to do something pretty retarded to get caught out by a Beemer, as the traction control cuts in way before trouble.

I drove a 320d Auto around in the snow a couple of years ago. No real problems except a traction control light flashing like a xmas tree.

[auroan]

Thought the B6 is used on the Superb and B7 on the Exeo?

Nope, the Supurb is either a stretched Passat chassis (mk1) or part golf part skoda's own (mk2)

The Exeo is a B7 with a cab. dash and seat badges. It doesn#t share a chassis it's basically a full blown A4. Seat are struggling for profits. So as Audi "mentor" the brand within VAG they gave the Spanish factories all the tooling and production line equipment for them to enter a market segment with out a significant startup and design costs.

[vRSy]

ive found a potential contender for the 6 MPS

the volvo S60R

300Hp as standard, so id imaginbe a good 350+ is achievable with a few discreet mods

[Wardy]

Whilst I can't deny the 6MPS and S60R are impressively fast machines, for me they do so without much drama. The speed and performance are a bit clinical, effortless if you will. It was what Roy said of the MPS when he had it - far too easy to get into triple figures and with it the chance of a rather large ticking off from the rozzers

You're on the verge of stepping of sports saloon territory here, and away from fast 'hot hatches'. This is one of the few ways of getting 300bhp as standard.

I'm sure you appreciate they're completely different segments, and the models offered are focused on different things. I'd just be wary of making sure that any choice like these two were EXACTLY right, and that you wouldn't tire of it quickly. Could be an expensive purchase if so, as these types of motors haven't got a huge queue of people lining up to buy them at the moment

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Steve

[Wardy]

Double-post, for some reason!

Edited 4 September, 2010 by Wardy

[vRSy]

Im after a sports saloon to be honest. ive done the hot hatch thing plenty now, i prefer bigger cars, and like to have a car thats a relatively unknown quantity to most people

[Wardy]

No worries - just down to expectation I suppose isn't it?

I driven a few fast saloons, 9-5 Aeros and the like. For me, the only ones that have ever felt 'alive' were from Munich and had a blue and white propeller on the nose :yes:

M3s and M5s of the age you're looking at with the S60R and 6MPS are clearly out of budget. There's also NA obviously, which I note you're not interested in. 335i would be interesting, but I've no idea on values at the moment.

Steve