Someone here on forum has encouraged me to expound on winter tyres. I am not quite sure why me, but since I do have an opinion on the subject, bear with me while I pontificate:

Basically, my understanding and introduction to vehicle dynamics was grounded during a visit to the London Metropolitan Police Driving School in Hendon in 1962. It was a day arranged for Motoring journalists from different countries. A family member was at the time a journalist for the Danish Motor magazine, so I was allowed to tag along. I had passed my driving test, but had not been issued a license at the time.

It was a day of demonstrating training principles, driving safety principles, skid pan practice and a demonstration of the training system, using the running commentary system, where the student continuously talked and told of all the things he observed during driving, which might have an influence on his progress.

It also included lunch with the Chief Superintendent of the school. His major point about safe driving was this: “You can break the law of the land and get away with it, but you cannot break the laws of physics†To drive safely at speed, you need to be in the right gear, understand your surroundings, and realize that the only thing you have to work with is the forces you can transmit though the fur small patches of rubber between you and the road.

The point?

Modern cars and modern tyres are focused on summer driving. Wide tyres with high speed performance bias in both wet and dry conditions just suck on cold slippery winter roads. If we concentrate on the north European situation- moderately, that is, like the UK, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Northern Germany and France, ther is a common situation. It is not clearly necessary to have very cold and snow driving capability, like it is in Finland, Norway, Sweden and Iceland, where they already know what tyres they need in winter

.

Said another way, it is not about being able to get somewhere when it is extremely cold and snowy, but about safety in everyday driving in winter. If there is an unusual dump of snow, stay at home. If you cannot get out of the driveway, get out the shovel.

In everyday winter driving, it is about the safety in being able to steer and brake to avoid hurting you and others. Modern summer high performance tyres do not do this well. Wide 40/45/50/55/60 aspect ratio makes this worse. In the past, when 65 and 70 aspect ratios were normal, it was not so bad, but now, the fat wide high performance summer tyres are just abominable in winter.

To handle cold, wet roads, you need winter tyres. For your safety (and enjoyment) and for others’.

My personal bias is this: Get the winter tyre with the best cold and wet performance. The snow performance will be OK. Narrow thread is better in snow. Wide 40 aspect tyres don’t make it in winter.

2WD drive with winter tyres beat 4WD with summer rubber anytime.

Now, if you want to beat my 4WD 2.0 CR 170hp Yeti with excellent winter boots, you’d have to get up real early……

good post - does anyone know if the price of Winter tyres gets more expensive Dec-Mar??

Cheers

Last December I paid £69.70 each (just looked at the receipt) for my Nokian WR G2 205/55 R16 94H XL winter tyres from on-line retailer mytyres. Up to recently they were around the £73 mark if I remember correctly; just had a quick look now and there at £81.10 Funny that as is just starting to turn autumnal :wonder: Mind shortly after I bought the tyres in December the price shot up, started to come back down once the snow stopped falling :S

TP

Edited 17 September, 201015 yr by The Plumber

No surprise there then

An interesting post certainly. What sort of mileage do you get out of the Goodyear's?

An interesting post certainly. What sort of mileage do you get out of the Goodyear's?

Same as the summer tyres, average 46 mpg+on local, mosty short trips.

Edited 17 September, 201015 yr by Agerbundsen

All tyres have gone up in price as your tanks of fuel have due to the fact both are made from oil , however if you want winter tyres get the purchase done asap as the availability reduces as the demand rises and the brands that are left are the more expensive ones like pirelli or michelin,

We have just bought in at work over 200 winter tyres for this year and possibly that is not enough really due to the winters getting harsher over the last few years and the knowledge and usage of the tyre buyers these days.

Dont forget the winter tyre works best from 6 degrees downwards so you can run them almost half a year really so its not just for snowy conditions i fitted mine last year about the first week of november and removed them in the early part of march.

I do agree with the idea of fitting a narrower spec tyre aswell this year my 225 section tyres are being snowshod with 215 sections to get more sharpness into its bite.

Peter

Stupid question, but I assume that I can just get a fitter to remove the summer tyres, and put on the winter tyres in their place. Do I need a new set of wheels as well?

No.

But if you want higher profile tyres you need to change the wheels as well.

check out the plumbers guide at this link http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/148948-yeti-tyre-and-rim-guide/

Mike

Most tyre fitters will also charge you around £10 a corner to swap a (non supplied) tyre over, multiply this by 2 as you would the swapping back over again after winter and you could of bought a set of cheap wheels for that amount (£80+).

Adding to an earlier question, if you are poor and cant afford a new smaller set of wheels to go with the winter tyres, then will a set of say Nokian winter tyres on the 17" wheels be OK for most of the UK throws at you ?

:|

Edited 18 September, 201015 yr by redandwhitepauly

Adding to an earlier question, if you are poor and cant afford a new smaller set of wheels to go with the winter tyres, then will a set of say Nokian winter tyres on the 17" wheels be OK for most of the UK throws at you ?

:|

Are all-season tyres a totally unsatisfactory compromise? Or a good enough compromise, given 'normal' UK conditions?

Are all-season tyres a totally unsatisfactory compromise? Or a good enough compromise, given 'normal' UK conditions?

I would ask the same question. Buying wheels and tyres for winter use is an expensive option and an all-season tyre on the original rims should be a good compromise.

I managed last winter on the original Goodyear tyres without any problem - this was on untreated icy and snowy roads around here - by the use of the Off-Road button and considerable care.

Presumably winter tyres even on 17" wheels will be good ??

Adding to an earlier question, if you are poor and cant afford a new smaller set of wheels to go with the winter tyres, then will a set of say Nokian winter tyres on the 17" wheels be OK for most of the UK throws at you ?

:|

Yes you can fit winters to the 17" rims; think at least two of the SMOC did this last winter and stuck to the original 225/50 tyres. Also seen a couple of SUK demonstrators :wonder: in jurno articles that appear to be fitted with 205/50 winter tyres on the standard 17"alloys. Note: this size is that recommended for winters in 17" but fitted to the narrower profile 6J X 17 'Flash' alloys.

Are all-season tyres a totally unsatisfactory compromise? Or a good enough compromise, given 'normal' UK conditions?

Depends where you live I suppose and the expectations you have for the tyre selected. Some are completely against having them as they are seen as a compromise, neither summer or winter. However I look at it that summer or winter could also be considered a compromise as there only really suitable for part of the year.

Have looked at this route myself and narrowed down two contenders for fitting an all season tyre as follows.

Option 1

Nokian eNtyre: new on the market and currently only sold through mytyres, so reviews are currently very thin on the ground. Has been designed for the Northern American market at the importers request and appears to be tailored to wet conditions particularly at lower tempratures.

Option 2

Goodyear 4 Season: This tyre has proved popular with some Scout drivers as far as I can tell; however it's expensive and possible less suitable for higher temperatures as it carries the 'snowflake on a mountain' symbol normally associated with full winter tyres.

Currently waiting for my Goodyear Excellence to wear out (appear to be stubbornly refusing to do so at the moment ) and then I see what's available but I'm pretty sure it will be a all season replacement. If nothing else to see how they compare to 'traditional' tyres.

Regards,

TP

I just bought winter tyres. Continental ContiVikingContact 5. I got them half price from a friend who have a small tyre resale shop.

I specificaly said few times to get me 215/60 size but he got me 205/55. What are friends for ha? Anyway I got them really cheap so I said ok.

I do A lot of snow driving ,going on skiing almost every weekend in Norwegian mountains. Think that this smaller tyre will be better in snow conditions.

It might look ugly thought on the car as its 2-3cm smaller in diameter them factory one but what a hell.

Yes rims are 16.

Proper winter tyre will do the job on 17's also. I see no problems there. Yeti have big wheel arches with lots of place. The ride might be not so comfortable as roads covered with snow and ice tend to be bumpy. But all in all no problems.

I used to have Yaris TS (RS in UK I guess) before which came from factory with 17's both sommer and winter. Wheel arch was not big ,leaving only 3-4 cm space beatween tyre and wheel arch. That was a disaster in winter. Wheel arches would pack so much with snow that the whole car was vibrating. I had to stop every 30 minutes to pull the snow out of wheel arch. Visited the Toyota dealer and they agreed to change 17's for 15's. They also said that I was not the first one to complain about this.

Edited 18 September, 201015 yr by ju3

Just looked at the mytyres listings, the prices for the 16 wheels with winter tyres with an offset of (ET) 45 seem to have increased in price. Those with an ET of 50 are cheaper and still listed for the Yeti TDI 4x4 at different speed ratings. Is an offset of 50 OK, I thought it had to be 45?

offset 50 will give you wheel that is pulled more to the inside of wheel arch. This might not look nice.

if we take offset 45 as standard for Yeti so wheels with higher offset (47,50,52....) will be pulled more to the inside of wheel arch.

Wheels with lower offset will be pushed more outside of the arch.

Big changes in offset will affect the other parts of drivetrain in bad way.

In Norway you can change offset by 7mm max and nobody would say nothing. Above 7mm requires aproval.

My winter rims have offset 42 ,16". This make wheel stick out 3mm more from wheel arch.

Edited 18 September, 201015 yr by ju3

offset 50 will give you wheel that is drawn more to the inside of wheel arch. I dont know will this affect the ride but it might not look nice.

if we take offset 45 as standard for Yeti so wheels with higher offset (47,50,52....) will be drawn more to the inside of wheel arch.

Wheels with lower offset will be pushed more outside of the arch.

Thank you Ju3, that makes it clear. As long as ET 50 did not contact with suspension components, then I suppose it might give some extra bodywork protection from grit and stones?

Yea thats correct.

You also have to check if brakes and other things that are there have sufficent free space.

Are all-season tyres a totally unsatisfactory compromise? Or a good enough compromise, given 'normal' UK conditions?

Good All-season tires (Major Brands, not Asian knock-offs) are better than summer tyres in winter and worse than summer tyres in summer. I suppose than the wet-and-hot and wet-and-cold are the most critical. On dry cold and hot, the adhesion is normally good enough for prudent drivers.

Actually winter tyres may be a safer choice. I had no problems with the Eagle Uktragrip in the trip to Spain earlier in the year, and there was quite a bit of high speed involved, both wet and dry. They did not seem to wear too much, but then it was in February and March. If the wear rate would be OK in summer, they would be a good choice. the many sipes intended for winter griip actually also helps in the wet, but not in warm and dry.

Since I already have two sets of wheels, I will not personally get to test out the theory.

Edited 18 September, 201015 yr by Agerbundsen

I must admit after having seen the tyre comparison tests on youtube I wouldnt even bother with all season tyres as they faired only marginally better than the summer ones whereas the winter tyres were superb !

Just looked at the mytyres listings, the prices for the 16 wheels with winter tyres with an offset of (ET) 45 seem to have increased in price. Those with an ET of 50 are cheaper and still listed for the Yeti TDI 4x4 at different speed ratings. Is an offset of 50 OK, I thought it had to be 45?

The ET 50 rims are the narrower 6J x 16 which are the same size as the rim used for the spare. Can only mount the 205/55 on this option, whereas the 7J x16 ET 45 can be used with either 215/60 or 205/55.

TP

I'm still toying with the idea of mounting my 7Jx16 steel wheels fitted with 215/55-16 Avon Ice Tourings as used on my Passat last winter.

Accepting that these are not shown in the handbook, the 215/55-16 fitment, accoding to the tyre size calculator, appears to be closer in size to the 17" tyres than the 215/60-16.

John

One comment about the wheel diameter: To my understanding 16 or 17 inch will not have any major impact on performance in snow or otherwise bad weather, but it will affect the price on the tires. The width is more relevant in extreme conditions as a narrower tire will better "sink" through any snow etc to get to the ground below. Of course you will not find really narrow 17 inch tires so in that respect the 16 inch makes more sence for winter tires.

All above said: I got winter tires (studded ones) in the dimension 225/50R17 as well (a very good bargain from the dealer for alloy rims+tires compared to steel rims+16 inch) so anything goes (And living in Finland I should know something about winter tires)