These at the moment seem to be the only cars left on the shortlist but neither of them seems to be quite clear cut.

Some background: I currently own a "schricked" mk3 VR6 highline which is starting to rust a bit and I'm now doing company mileage and could do with updating my car which I have had for 5 years and loved. It's full leather interior and has 209hp/210lbft with a very flexible engine normally I'm changing up at 4k or less as I don't need any more than that for commuting, the extra is there for occasional use - saves having a second "weekend" car. Day to day driveability with decent go is my main priority.

I prefer small cars and the "small car, big engine" sort of effect.

I really like the looks of both the Fabia vRS and the Polo GTi from the outside, pretty much equally I think.

The Fabia pros;

Torque!

Economy - I gain back on each company mile a little

Lower insurance so remapping isn't a huge leap in cost (£100)

I actually think this is the closer of the two out of the box on daily driveability compared to the golf

Lower entry point cost

Cons;

The standard seats - sorry but I just don't like the fabric, the colour is fine. Leather is hard to find or a costly upgrade pushing it above the price of a Polo by a chunk

Cambelt + waterpump failure seems rife! There seems a large proportion of issues on these even when replaced on schedule

Turbo failures - I'm reading about more of these than I care to

The Polo pros;

It's a VW! My wife is still a badge snob when it comes to Skoda

Decent if not fantastic engine out of the box, can be remapped if required

Longer usable rev range

Standard seats I could live with although erm... tartan?

Cons;

It's not got the mid range grunt of the Fabia and equally if you remap it to "fix" this, you can do the same on the Fabia

The entry cost is more

Running costs are higher with reduced mpg - company mileage is covered but the Fabia gains some back here

Insurance is higher making the remap more expensive

The damn waterpump issue again, less of a problem with the actual cambelt but the cost to replace is the same

Turbo failures - I'm reading about more of these than I care to (same turbo, same problems)

Both are available in my first choice red or second choice black colours. :yes:

I must apologise, I work with computers and networks and probably through this I have a tendency to over analyse information, especially regarding failures. It's a bonus in the line of work I'm in, it's something of a hindrance in everyday life. Rarely can I allow myself a purchase of the heart.

All of the above is how I arrived at the VR6 I guess and it has been pleasingly bulletproof. It did require costly chain replacement but they don't just snap you get a gradual 20-30k warning that you're going to have to get them done.

Economy with good light throttle pace is also good circa 37mpg on a run and 30mpg on my daily commute. The "natural" replacement, the R32 drops about 7mpg across the board so each company mile comes directly out of my pocket, that's too much pain!

Yeah, I'm stuck. I like both cars with some niggles but costly failure worries me with both, I really don't do "unplanned surprises" and what I really don't want to happen is to end up less pleased with the next car than the one it replaces.

(Yes, I'm fussy as my wife, children, boss, friends keep telling me..)

The fabis vRS and the Polo gti are basically the same car,same engine,same running gear,its really down to the interior and external changes,and of course the fabia is cheaper.

The Polo GTi is the 1.8T petrol engine. The rest of it is the same running gear yes, and I've looked at the Ibiza and ruled it out (like the interior but just don't like the exterior plus the suspension knocks on them all at the back over bumps).

I've never seen a Fabia vRS cambelt snap, seen plenty of 1.8t belts go though.

It's horses for courses though, ones a petrol, ones a diesel. Very different cars to drive for different reasons.

I've not read on here about snapping cambelts in the fabia maybe I've missed them posts?

Depends is you want diesel or petrol, of course you could also look at the ibiza which is probably going to be cheaper than the polo.

If your used to petrol and are not doing large miles I'd go for the polo/ibiza 1.8T

I've never seen a Fabia vRS cambelt snap, seen plenty of 1.8t belts go though.

It's horses for courses though, ones a petrol, ones a diesel. Very different cars to drive for different reasons.

I guess this is what started it;

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/2485-cambelts-a-warning/

As some will know I work at an Audi Centre,and we are seeing more & more premature cambelt failures-some due to neglect and others seamingly without explanation.....

After that I searched around a bit and found lots of instances of the PD engines snapping belts. However, people don't post when they're belt hasn't snapped so I realise it could be a very small (vocal) percentage, so am I really just being overly paranoid about it?

If so then I'm quite happy just to get the belt done at the regular intervals.

Regarding the differences, I guess prefer torque and mid range grunt rather than revving an engine. I've driven a lot of miles in turbo diesels, going back about 10 years I worked as a technical courier for computer parts/systems and for a couple of years, clocked up over 100k a year. I also went from Stockport to Aberdeen (750 mile 12 hour round trip) twice in one day when I was on call... I was about 10 minutes from reaching home after the first trip when they called and said the replacement part had also failed.

That was on older style diesels though, today they're much better.

With a recent change in my job, I'm estimating about 6k in personal mileage and 15k in company mileage a year.

Looking at the list myself, the Fabia seems to be winning hands down with a remap perhaps.

Oh, I did actually buy one a few weeks ago as well but the dealer drove it through a hedge on a country lane between me putting a deposit on it and travelling 280m on a train to collect it. It was ruined. Cost me £400 in total with train tickets and the insurance change I'd already paid for.

That one was in black with leather but my wife has now banned me from searching as far a field now!

I considered the Polo but went for a Fabia.

The 1.8T is a thirsty beast, the road tax is about £100 more per annum (without checking) and for me the insurance on the Fabia was considerably cheaper.

Apart from the LE, vRSes should be considerably cheaper than a Polo of the same age / condition.

Finally, the Polo is a girly car (a young lad in my neighbourhood drives a white one and he just looks Duke of Kent) - the vRS is too quirky / ugly (in a good way) to be girly.

VRS wins hands down, it's better build quality for a start. Turbo can fail, but cambelt is not a problem. Neither is the water pump, as the impeller was strengthened years ago.

Standard polo gti handles better than a vrs with all the trick bits added, interior on the polo is much better apart from that its down to personal choice

Sorry thought you were talking new Fabia vRS/Polo gti.

Sorry thought you were talking new Fabia vRS/Polo gti.

Lol, they really are just the same car are they not?

Sorry thought you were talking new Fabia vRS/Polo gti.

Ah yeah, I posted it in general instead of Fabia 1 so I perhaps should have been more specific rather than expecting people to read my mind.

Fabia wise I'm looking at 05-07 and Polo it would have been 06-

I think I have decided though, the Fabia is what I really want and when you factor in insurance, remaps and fueling costs it provides a lot more bang for buck.

As long as that bang does not involve cambelts.

A turbo I don't even mind so much if it doesn't take the engine with it - I just buy a better replacement right? As the car will be required for work, I will keep a pot of money aside for moderate running costs - enough to cover a turbo, probably not enough for a full engine rebuild etc.

I just need to find a nice one now, ideally with leather in red that's had a scheduled cambelt change at 4 years!

Edited 3 October, 201015 yr by Buzzark

There's always the Polo GT PD130 (same engine as the vRS) as a compromise (interior is nicer than the vRS and if you go for the 3 door no leaky rear ones to worry about :yes: ) but I'd still go for the Fabia...

They're a bit rare! I've seen 2 of them pop up in the last few months, neither of them fit the bill. I think they only sold about 10.

Whatever you get, whack a cambelt kit on and a new water pump and your laughing.

Seriously I've been working on these cars for the last 11 years and I've seen maybe 2 PD belts break in that time and I'm pretty sure that's been because they weren't changed on time.

Oh and good luck with the search, leather won't be factory but quite a few have had seats retrimmed but narrows your options.

They're a bit rare! I've seen 2 of them pop up in the last few months, neither of them fit the bill. I think they only sold about 10.

Aye, I had a look on Autotrader after posting - you're right - obviously weren't flying out of VW showrooms .

Apart from a GT badge and the alloys they're almost identical to a standard Polo - great Q cars.

They're a bit rare! I've seen 2 of them pop up in the last few months, neither of them fit the bill. I think they only sold about 10.

Too right! I would have liked one of these to be honest, but could not find one suitable. When I looked there were only about 10 for sale in the country!! I think the 3 door thing would have annoyed me in the long run though!

Still loving my Fabia

...now to fix those leaky doors

Whatever you get, whack a cambelt kit on and a new water pump and your laughing.

Seriously I've been working on these cars for the last 11 years and I've seen maybe 2 PD belts break in that time and I'm pretty sure that's been because they weren't changed on time.

Thanks, really puts my mind at rest that. I also read a bit more and Continental who make the belts, or at least are one of the suppliers reckon it's actually a lifetime fit and that 60k is just a VAG UK thing and isn't specified anywhere else even places where it gets really cold which is rubbers worst enemy. Happy about that now, I'll get it done as per the schedule and it should be fine.

Lots of posts about the rear doors though - here's a quick question;

Why not improve the drainage so the door doesn't fill with water than seal it up so that it doesn't flow in over the inner lip of the inner frame? Sorry to go off on a tangent!

PS I have a perfectly good VR6 to drive while I'm looking for the right car to come up despite the urge to to go out and buy one. If I can't find one with leather that's right for me in a couple of months, or I cave in first on an outstanding car, I'll buy one and probably get it re-trimmed.

I'm putting aside a set budget each month I'm not paying off a loan so the longer I wait, the more I have in that car pot for extras or against the initial purchase. An SE isn't out of the question but I prefer red and black first so it's probably not worth the premium for me.

Lots of posts about the rear doors though - here's a quick question;

Why not improve the drainage so the door doesn't fill with water than seal it up so that it doesn't flow in over the inner lip of the inner frame? Sorry to go off on a tangent!

Try it with yours and if it works then you can come and do mine

No one seems to have tried to do this - as far as I've seen. If you do a good job of the re-sealing then you shouldn't have to do it again anyway.

Buy surely having water sloshing around inside the doors isn't ideal, you really want it out as fast as possible given that protection is usually lesser inside that void.

What exactly is the cause, is it that the drain holes are too small or get blocked up? Or is the problem that instead of running to the outer skin of the door as it should, it comes down the inner skin (which is bad) and runs down the liner which I guess is a fairly standard VAG foam one? (Much better than the old drum skin polythene liners of old I think)

I have seen pictures of at least one door with the lower part filled with water in which case it's a drainage issue. Running down the inner liner could be cured by mounting an internal sheet inside the cavity but that depends on how accessible the whole thing is.

I guess I will have my own to examine at some point! :wonder:

As far as I am aware, or can tell from my experience, the 'foam' liner is not sufficient to keep the water inside the carrier until it drains through the drainage holes. This is down to the poor seal on the carrier, when I looked at mine last time, there was quite a noticeable gap between carrier, 'foam' and door. The actual drainage doesn't seem to be a problem in my experience. The issue is that it doesn't get the sufficient time needed to drain, and instead leaks through the 'foam'.

I would suggest that even if you made extra room for drainage, if the foam seal has perished (degraded) enough, you will still have a problem with water ingress.

I do not know the path of the water down from window to bottom of the door, but either way, I would not have thought it to be ideal to have the water inside the carrier either, but then again, I do not know what is inside the carrier!

I've owned both.

Had an 05 Fabia vRS in black, with xenons which was bought at six months old-ish and after a bit of faffing around with other cars a couple of years later I bought an ex-VW launch car Polo GTI 1.8t at about six months old also. This GTI had almost all the extras including nav which is rare.

The Fabia was black and the Polo red, both 5 doors (no other choice with the vRS!).

In order of how I bought them:

The Fabia was a pretty decent car. These quickly became cult cars because of their VW underpinnings coupled with stunning value for money. The jutty out chin front bumper was pretty avant garde back in 2003 when the vRS was launched and the rear exhaust looked pretty funky too. Obviously many cars have taken a lead from the sporty design features since and the Fabia doesn't look quite so unique now.

Handling okay but not brilliant and the ride makes up for this by being excellent for a sporty hatch.

But the tour de force of the vRS is the gutsy 130 PD engine. Very punchy and much more fun than the newer 2.0 Diesels. I recently drove the spiritual successor to the Polo/Ibiza/Fabia 130 which comes in the form of the Ibiza SC FR 2.0 TDI. The new Ibiza is a good car but the engine doesn't have the grunt and urge of the old 1.9 PD unit despite the 'on paper' more power.

The downside of the PD units is that they sound like tractors. I averaged low 40s MPG wise. Mixed use and too old to be a boy racer (though I don't hang about).

The Polo GTI is an awkward car to rate. The 1.8t engine drives like no other 1.8t I've driven (I've owned 3 1.8t's and driven loads). It has a very snappy throttle pedal in the Polo, which makes the car very responsive to drive (if you look on YouTube for the Polo GTI adverts you will see VW made light of that feature). The only way I've been able to emulate the response in other cars I've owned would be to add a Sprint Booster module. The one eight turbo obviously lacks the PD grunt at low to mid revs but it has a good useable power band and is very flexible. I acutally prefer the 5 speed box on the Polo too, it just has a nice feel to it.

The trim emulates the mk5 Golf GTI in colour but the plastics are of lower quality and the seats have different cloth and don't support you as well.

The steering is very sharp but the ride is hard and the handling so so. I never managed to get that comfortable in the Polo GTI.

The exhaust was quite boomy too, in a sporty sort of way but annoying to rear seat passengers on a long run.

Economy wise the Polo did mid 30s. Better than my other two 1.8t cars by a margin on fuel.

For the record, and as it's a direct relative, I also owned a 2003 Ibiza PD130 Sport, again in 5 door and also bought about six months old. Crap car, didn't keep it long. Good engine, plain inside, dowdy to look at and a rock hard ride. The run out model 'big bumper' FRs were much nicer and would be an interesting alternative to a vRS or Polo GTI (the Beezer being available with both the PD and 1.8t engines).

The Polo PD130 sold very badly because it was about 2 grand dearer than the Fabia vRS, didn't have traction control or ESP and had virtually no special styling touches. And had tractor like ride height. Too nippy for old ladies and too dowdy for the young at heart.

That's my tuppence worth anyway.......

Quick edit for the OP, I also owned a couple of Golf VR6s back in the day. Great cars once the dampers have been changed for something less jelly like. Always wanted a Schrick manifold for mine but never had the chance to get one

Edited 6 October, 201015 yr by BeezerDiesel

Enjoyed your reviews there BD while eating my chicken sandwich .

Enjoyed your reviews there BD while eating my chicken sandwich .

I thought they seemed pretty spot on as well I have to say I'm suprised however, as I thought the polo would have been much better in the corners!