Hi folks, new to forums so be nice!

Car, 2006 Octavia Estate 2.0Tdi140, died with a pop today and rescue man identified that the cam belt had gone.

Two questions - Does this engine have protection for this happening? I think engine stopped as soon as it happened and I cruised to a halt smoothly.

Had the belt changed Mid July 2010 by Skoda so is there any kind of warranty on this kind of thing and what comeback do I have to the garage?

Garage closed today so no chance to quiz them.

Cheers for any responses,

Andy

If the cambelt was changed at a main dealer you have 2 years warranty. So get the car to them to sort out, if something has failed that was changed or should have been changed or the work was faulty then your covered. But your going to be looking at a new cylinder head at least.

If the cambelt was changed at a main dealer you have 2 years warranty. So get the car to them to sort out, if something has failed that was changed or should have been changed or the work was faulty then your covered. But your going to be looking at a new cylinder head at least.

Thanks, kinda what I had hoped would be the case. Have abandoned the car at the dealer so they will have to look at it in the morning.

Good, above all be nice. It's a royal pain I know, but you will get a lot more from someone if you don't go in guns blazing ready for a fight.

The same happened to me yesterday after having the cambelt changed on 23rd November. The skoda dealer looked at it today and have said the car is a write off. The water pump has seized causing the cambelt to tear. They didn’t change the water pump at the time they replaced the cambelt (didnt even give us the option to do this) but will not accept responsibility for it. I have since read that you should always change the water pump at the time of changing the cambelt. The cost of a replacement engine, £4000 - £5000!

We are now seeking legal advice and would appreciate and welcome any comments from anyone who may know where we stand on this matter.

I hope you have better luck than we have had so far.

While it is good practice to change the water pump Skoda do not stipulate that you should. So the dealer isnt in the wrong, your looking at a component failure that sadly will cost a lot of money to repair.

While it is good practice to change the water pump Skoda do not stipulate that you should. So the dealer isnt in the wrong, your looking at a component failure that sadly will cost a lot of money to repair.

It seams that its common practice to do both the pump and cambelt at the same time. I dont have a great understanding of cars and trusted that the dealership that sold me the car, carried out any repairs for me and serviced my car on a regular basis would have advised me to or would have automaticly changed the water pump at the same time.

Is it true that a Skoda cambelt kit comes with a water pump?

Thanks for the Advice

The same happened to me yesterday after having the cambelt changed on 23rd November. The skoda dealer looked at it today and have said the car is a write off. The water pump has seized causing the cambelt to tear. They didn’t change the water pump at the time they replaced the cambelt (didnt even give us the option to do this) but will not accept responsibility for it. I have since read that you should always change the water pump at the time of changing the cambelt. The cost of a replacement engine, £4000 - £5000!

We are now seeking legal advice and would appreciate and welcome any comments from anyone who may know where we stand on this matter.

I hope you have better luck than we have had so far.

Would a water pump seize enough to snap the cambelt? I would be after a 2nd opinion.

Water pumps don't come with the cambelt kit but is advised as its no extra labour to change...

It is not that common for customers to request that the water pump be changed when the cambelt is changed. The general customer base is not as well informed as Briskoda members.

The cambelt kit does not include a water pump. The cambelt change procedure does not include a water pump change. Skoda do not recommend changing it at the same time and do not recommend that customers be asked

There is no service interval for the pump. It is replaced when it fails. The usual failure mode for the water pump is that the impeller cracks and spins on the shaft. You are unlucky in that the pump sprocket siezed.

When customers request that the water pump be changed, they do so to avoid the labour charges on replacing the pump - not to avoid catastrophic failure as this is rare.

The dealer did nothing wrong - sorry.

Water pumps don't come with the cambelt kit but is advised as its no extra labour to change...

Why? Does it take no time to remove the water pump, drain and refill the cooling system?

Usually an extra 0.3 hours isnt out of line.

Why? Does it take no time to remove the water pump, drain and refill the cooling system?

Usually an extra 0.3 hours isnt out of line.

sorry should have said in the grand scheme of things compared to changing it separate to a timing belt...but hardly takes long to remove, replace and refill when the belt is already off.

Thank you all for your advice.

Tech1e, i just felt that having bought the car from the dealer 3 years ago and the previous owner having bought it from them aswell with both of us getting all work done at their dealership that they may well have advised me to get it changed at the same time as having the cambelt replaced. I dont know much about cars and have done everything that they have advised in the past. I just felt a little let down and very car less.

Thanks for you advice though.

Jenny

I appreciate that, however no doubt they would have checked the water pump for play and spun it up, not that will tell you much unless something is wrong with it at time of test.

A wee update from me - garage didn't have time to have a proper look, but confirmed it was a cam belt tensioner failure. Not sure what the implications of this are on the engine and no discussion about who is going to pay for repairs. They have given me a courtesy car so I am happy enough at the moment.

I'm thinking I will pop into the garage tomorrow and have a chat about what they are going to do just to put my mind at rest.

Anyone know anything about some skoda engines having in built protection from cam belt failure?

It wont have protection no, its a high compression diesel, no room for error.

Good news though is if its a cambelt tensioner failure then its a parts warranty issue or down to incorrect fitment so you should be ok.

What would the point be in having it changed if it then wasnt going to last?

The plot thickens! Turns out it was the bolt which secures the cam belt tensioner to the engine block which sheared causing the failure, so garage saying not their fault. Does anyone know if this bolt is removed as part of the cam belt change and therefore could potentially have been damaged by them?

Good news is that they used a temporary bolt to put everything together and engine is fine , just need to decide if I should move the car on in case it's not 100% fine. Oh and fight out who pays for repairs, they have not said either way yet but I'm prepared for the worst after the chat today.

If they changed the tensioner then they removed the nut on the end of the stud so though they havent changed that part itself could the nut have been over tightened?

Either way if its ok now then that itself is a miricle and they and you are very lucky indeed.

Think its a downright disgrace that Skoda dealers dont advise replacing the water pump and tensioner when the belt is replaced!!! All Audi dealers and VW dealers, and specialists I have ever used have made a point of asking!!!

As for your tensioner bolt shearing...will be difficult to prove either way that they touched it or otherwise, but over-torquing could well have caused it, but then cyclic vibrations can cause fatigie failure too.

I asked about getting the cam belt changed at various local garages, and invited them to quote for the water pump being done at the same time. Each advised that the water pump change was not necessary, as my 56 reg Octavia II 1.9TDI has a keyed impeller, unlike my older 52 reg Octavia 1.9TDI, which had a plastic impeller, and these were notorious for the impeller becoming unstuck from the water pump drive shaft.

I've elected to defer changing the timing belt as my car has done very low mileage, and while I'm aware the advice these days is 4 years/40,000 miles, the service schedule for that car at the time it was sold to me was 80,000 miles, if I recall correctly.

Andy

There is another thread from an Audi technician detailing premature cam belt failures - Probably why Skoda UK reduced the recommended mileage change.

I had my cam-belt changed last week at a main stealer after 57K miles and 3.9 years. The standard kit doesn't come with a water pump so I asked for the pump to be changed at the same time after reading advice on this forum. Paid £399 as I got Leeds Skoda to match the VW deal (which was also the same as my indy quoted)

I understood that this has a 2 year warranty which is why I got Skoda to do this not the indy.

Edited 23 December, 201114 yr by Web Ferret

When I had my belt changed for the second time, it came as a kit and new tension-er was with it, I changed to the metal water pump on the first belt change.

The tension-er must be changed at the same time as the belt according the the VW mech who services mine

Edited 24 December, 201114 yr by skippy41

Are people having the "ContiTech" Cambelt fitted to the CR diesel engines changed every 4 years ?

I'm sure it says in the service book it can do either 180K or 210K km depending on engine size.

Edited 24 December, 201114 yr by Ultima

Are people having the "ContiTech" Cambelt fitted to the CR diesel engines changed every 4 years ?

I'm sure it says in the service book it can do either 180K or 210K km depending on engine size.

it seems they are, even though suk confirm there is no age limit and its also on the conti website.

Found this on the Contitech site:

http://www.contitech.de/pages/presse/pressemeldungen/2009/091216_aam/presse_en.html

It's from the Word document at the bottom of the page.

"ContiTech: Age also plays its part in timing belt replacement

Customers should be informed by workshops • Mileage not the only factor • Aging damages material • Correct, up-to-date maintenance information essential

Hanover, December 2009. The correct time to change a timing belt depends not only on the mileage of the car, but also on the age of the belt, Workshops should inform their customers of this, advises ContiTech. "Long periods of non-use place just as much strain on a belt as regular operation does. Aging damages the material – no matter how much you drive," explains Helmut Engel, Head of Automotive Aftermarket at the ContiTech Power Transmission Group.

Many drivers don't realize that the mileage on the clock isn't the only reason to make regular trips to the repair workshop. Most second cars, city cars and convertibles are unlikely to reach the replacement intervals specified by the manufacturer, even after many years of driving. In Germany, over ten million cars are driven as second cars – just under a quarter of the cars licensed with the Federal Motor Transport Authority (Kraftfahrtbundesamt).

"In the last few years, some manufacturers have already started to change replacemnt intervals to take age into account, especially for timing belts. However, these changes are not indicated in the service manual,” explains Kai-Uwe Suppé, technical trainer at ContiTech. In order to perform maintenance in accordance with the inspection guidelines, repair workshops should therefore always refer to up-to-date information, otherwise they could be liable to pay compensation in case of damage. "Automobile businesses can obtain all the important information on diagnosis, repairs and maintenance via providers such as Autodata. The information available via such services is updated regularly based on the original manufacturer specifications. That way, the workshop is on the safe side," explains Suppé. If the manufacturer has not provided suitable specifications, ContiTech advises that timing belts be replaced after six years at the latest.

When changing belts, it is also highly recommended to replace all the relevant belt drive components at the same time. This provides greater safety for the engine. With OEM-quality kits containing perfectly matched drive components, ContiTech offers the right products for this task. The advantages for workshops are clear: there is no need to order individual parts, you can always be certain that the parts match the vehicle and type and administration for incoming goods and processing becomes a lot simpler. This saves time and reduces process costs. Using kits also provides mechanics with the best possible means of protecting themselves from possible warranty claims. Workshops can find the ContiTech kits in the online catalog at www.contitech.de/aam. They are also listed in TecDoc, the digital information system that supplies the vehicle replacement parts market and workshops with comprehensive data for purchasing purposes.

But then this Press release says different, clear as a belt!

http://www.contitech.de/pages/presse/pressemeldungen/2009/090202_dieselrunner/presse_en.html

Edited 25 December, 201114 yr by Ultima

The plot thickens! Turns out it was the bolt which secures the cam belt tensioner to the engine block which sheared causing the failure, so garage saying not their fault. Does anyone know if this bolt is removed as part of the cam belt change and therefore could potentially have been damaged by them?

Good news is that they used a temporary bolt to put everything together and engine is fine , just need to decide if I should move the car on in case it's not 100% fine. Oh and fight out who pays for repairs, they have not said either way yet but I'm prepared for the worst after the chat today.

If they try to charge you get on to Skoda UK. As Tech1e said, they have disturbed that stud as part of the change. They could have over tightened the nut and/or overtensioned the belt. There is a procedure to go through to tension a belt correctly.

Not all Skoda main dealers are as good as one another - when I changed my cambelt I found that the belt was overtensioned and the tensioner was on maximum tension. The previous change was performed by a Skoda main dealer under two years and 50k miles previously. I dread to think what could have happened if I hadn't opted to change the belt early when I bought the car.

As others have said, water pumps are not part of the cambelt kit and are normally only recommended to be changed if they are noisy or showing signs of wear. Having said that, most dealers will try and get the extra labour time and parts sale whilst they are doing the belt.

Contrary to popular rumours, my 2006MY PD140 had a water pump with a plastic impeller and I swapped it for a genuine VAG one with a metal impeller.