vRS unstable at speed!

[gatsbys]

Now that my petrol vRS is one month old and 1000 miles on the clock, I thought I would see how it handles at high speed.(before anyone says anything-I was not on a public road) WOW! -its like those films where the test pilots were trying to break the sound barrier! I couldn't focus on the speedo due to the vibrations and juttteryness. Needless to say, I immediately eased off straight away. Now I know its supposed to have sports suspension etc-but I wasn't happy from day one, it felt jittery and I put it down to me being used to an X type jag and an Audi A8.......but it certanly shouldn't drive like that. I've been thinking about the alignment, I have done about 650 miles on the motorway and the rest to and from work and its never been anywhere near a pothole. After reading some threads about sawtoothing tyres I think I'm beginning to see a hint of this on the front tyres (my tyres normally last over 4 years on my previous cars), the tyre pressures are spot on, I know these cars are short on sound deadening felt which doesn't help the situation (there's no boom at any particular speed)

I was reading my warrenty booklet and I'm pretty sure it reads that the alignment is covered for the first 6 months (can I have it done at a tyre place near me and charge them-or do I have to drop it off to a Skoda dealer)

Any other ideas would be appreciated.

[mannyo]

it must be an alignment problem, my previous octavia estate was perfectly stable and confident at 150MPH indicated on the german autobahn. Real speed is less of course due to builtin speedo error of around 10%.

[TsvRS]

+1 on alignment, just had mine done and the car feels entirely different. It wasn't miles out either but it certainly didn't feel glued to the road.

My suspicion is that the alignment is either not done at all or at least done only very poorly prior to delivery. (My 4 wheel alignment cost me £18 btw)

Edited 16 January, 2011 by TsvRS

[Guest]

No problems with mine at high speed on the 'autobahn'

[gatsbys]

If its only £18 I'll just go and do it and wont bother going through Skoda............by the way.....I was nowhere near 150 mph-the needle was at roughly 3 0'clock on a clock face which is roughly 120mph but it was so bad that in all my 30 odd years of driving - I've never felt a car so out-of-control in a straight line-it was quite scary.

[vRSy]

its an issue with your car or tyres i think. I had mine off the clock on numerous occasions and regularly sat @ 120-130mph along them for prolonged periods. when i was living in germany, and can honestly say it was absolutely fine,

[vRSy]

if your considering going to get alignment done, do it properly and spend more than £18 and get it done properly

have a read through this

author=wheels-inmotion link=topic=17704.msg251982#msg251982 date=1280869359]

Hi peeps, i've only recently joined the club and i'm not intending to teach anyone how to suck eggs, although if you remove the shell they are much better....

The MK5 chassis is a target car for modifications, albeit lowering or adding a few HP, this is not belittling the build, more like perfecting it, nothing is perfect. If you have driven down this modified road i salute you but are you getting the best from your modifications?

I want to take you down a simple journey that exposes how you have been conned into the form of measurement taken and the level of understanding of those taking the measurement's.

At this point you may be thinking "FFS" do i really need this chap preaching on about bloody wheel alignment!! Well in actual fact yes you do and here's the first installment for why.

Various methods are described to encourage you to resolve tyre wear or handling issues, additionally members in forums are keen to advise but often fall victim to the same miss-information, read carefully and stay ahead of 'alignment the big con'

Tracking/Alignment

Is linear, this measurement shows no concern for any other angle. This form of measurement is the most common in the World and the most damaging.

Angles measured 1 this is what you get for £18

Four wheel Alignment

Uses the rear wheels as a scale to centre the steering rack.... then the front toe..... this is better but is assuming the rear is centred.

Angles measured 2

Four wheel Laser Alignment

Same as above.... be wise!

Geometry/Primary

Will image the exact rear centre line to permit a centred steering wheel.. additionally the front and rear camber positions will be measured. This is the most common form of Geometry and i consider this as 'basic'

Angles measured 8

Full Geometry/primary and Secondary

Is absolute but harder to understand. Few places even with the equipment measure the Secondary angles, these include...

Castor

KPI/SJI/SAI

Scrub radius

included angle

TOOT/Ackerman

Delta curve

and so on

This is what i have done, usually once a year, it'll cost between £80-100 but the difference is huge.

Most areas that involve rapid tyre wear or handling issues need to be read from the 'Secondary' data, even more important if the car has been modified or for diagnostics after an accident.

Angles measured 15+

Not easy reading indeed, millions of pounds change hands every day for 'Alignment', a need to be wise could save you £ssss

One more thing to make the 'blood boil'.. The Primary and secondary Geometry has a customer destination?

1: Primary is the 'dumb' customer version

2: Secondary is with held unless requested and named the 'Technicians version.

[gatsbys]

if your considering going to get alignment done, do it properly and spend more than £18 and get it done properly

have a read through this

Hmmmmm......well you seem to know a bit about this subject, can you recommend anyone who can do one of these superdooper alignments near me( N14 part of north London) and I presume I shouldn't bother Skoda as they probably won't be as thourough?

[vRSy]

i think skoda have the capabilty and specialist equip to do it (at leats the german skoda dealers did in germany) but its all dependant on the operators then.

There is Wheels in motion (AKA blackboots) these guys are rated amongst the best in the country and support alot of forums( including this one)when it comes top help with this sort of thing.

they have a forum you could ask questions on as well My link

Plus they are only 30miles away

Edited 16 January, 2011 by janner_Sy

[Captain Scarlet]

If the fronts are saw toothing then it must alignment. When I was in Germany 2 years ago mine was perfectly stable at 120 mph indicated.

I drop mine off at the local dealer when I want moine doing as they can get a cheaper price at the centre they use.

[mannyo]

i think skoda have the capabilty and specialist equip to do it (at leats the german skoda dealers did in germany) but its all dependant on the operators then.

There is Wheels in motion (AKA blackboots) these guys are rated amongst the best in the country and support alot of forums( including this one)when it comes top help with this sort of thing.

they have a forum you could ask questions on as well My link

Plus they are only 30miles away

Another vote for Wheels in Motion, they did my superb which I was having problems with. I went to them after another company tried and failed to fix it. Well worth the money, and sorted out my problem, they also fully explained everything to me as they went through the process which took more than 1hour to complete.

[CEPi]

So guys, can this sort of wheel alignment be done at a local tire changing center or it needs a high end equipped garage?

Does basic wheel alignment mean 4 wheels being taken off, spinning in the machine and then adding the little metal stickers to align them?

Camber, steering wheel etc, these need to be done at Skoda or some better equipped garage right?

Cheers.

[juan27]

So guys, can this sort of wheel alignment be done at a local tire changing center or it needs a high end equipped garage?

Does basic wheel alignment mean 4 wheels being taken off, spinning in the machine and then adding the little metal stickers to align them?

Camber, steering wheel etc, these need to be done at Skoda or some better equipped garage right?

Cheers.

I have never had satisfactory wheel alignment done at one of big tyre centre chains. I believe they often do more harm than good.

When you talk about spinning the wheels thats wheel balancing which stops vibration due to the wheel's weight not being not quite evenly distibuted and therefore balanced, its got nothing to do with alignment.

Edited 16 January, 2011 by juan27

[vRSy]

So guys, can this sort of wheel alignment be done at a local tire changing center or it needs a high end equipped garage?

Does basic wheel alignment mean 4 wheels being taken off, spinning in the machine and then adding the little metal stickers to align them?

Camber, steering wheel etc, these need to be done at Skoda or some better equipped garage right?

Cheers.

9 times out of ten id say no. There are not many places in the UK with the equipment to do the full geometry. I remember reading that companies with either the 'Hunter Hawkeye 811 Pro Wheel Aligner.' or 'Beissbarth Microline kit' are the ones to go for.

I know WiM use the hawkeye and centergravity use the Beissbarth. ive used both places, and couldnt fault either.

[mdk1]

To the op, How new is your oct'y?

Could it be they have left the suspension blocks in, these are used when transporting from the factory.

They have been known to be missed on the PDI, would make your suspension very bumpy.

[gatsbys]

To the op, How new is your oct'y?

Could it be they have left the suspension blocks in, these are used when transporting from the factory.

They have been known to be missed on the PDI, would make your suspension very bumpy.

Its just over a month old (picked up on the week before the snow).....what do these suspension blocks look like? Are they obvious if I take a good look? I was a bit fussy with the dealer in that I asked them NOT to wash it with a sponge or to polish it as I wanted to clay it, wash it with sheepskin mitts, and treat it with a primer and silicone based polish which I bought from a detailer because I didn't want any swirls in the paint. I hope they weren't too scared of touching the car that they didn't take out these 'blocks'

[mdk1]

They are a black block that fit inbetween the coils of the spring.

[Stuart_J]

Its just over a month old (picked up on the week before the snow).....what do these suspension blocks look like? Are they obvious if I take a good look? I was a bit fussy with the dealer in that I asked them NOT to wash it with a sponge or to polish it as I wanted to clay it, wash it with sheepskin mitts, and treat it with a primer and silicone based polish which I bought from a detailer because I didn't want any swirls in the paint. I hope they weren't too scared of touching the car that they didn't take out these 'blocks'

At one month old I would go back to the dealer before you do anything else or at the very least inform them & say what you intend to do , If you do anything & there are problems later they can possibly use that against you, agreed in this case it would be hard but putting it another way you have a defective car, why should you even shell out £18 & take time out to do it

[Rob JS]

yes mine was stable at 125mph and actually very plesant to drive

[gatsbys]

They are a black block that fit inbetween the coils of the spring.

I've had a look and they seem ok-I cant see anything in between the coils-they are free to go up and down

[sherlocks VRS]

Its the same old story unfortunately, you can have thousands and thousands of pounds worth of equipment but if the operator is a baffoon then you are back to square one or worse. You need somewhere that has got a good reputation. But whats been said previously you need to take it back to your dealer and let them have a look cos its still under warranty. We dont usualy get any high speed stability problems especialy on new stuff, unless its been kerbed at some point either at the docks or prior to you getting it?

[Hauptmann]

A properly set-up vRS should be smooth and stable well up into three-figure speeds. Mine is frighteningly easy to hit 100mph in, without realising it.

The OP mentions vibrations and judderyness - so I am wondering if this is more than just alignment (which doesn't normally lead to not being able to read the speedo, etc.). It could be poor alignment coupled with some severe out-of-balance in the wheels or driveshafts. I think your dealer needs to take a good look at it.

As regards alignment, my experience is that you need decent kit and a competent operator. Also try to avoid places that want to charge stupid prices.

VAG dealerships seem to either sub-contract out their alignment, or use Beissbarth if they have their own rig.

I use a place that has a Jim Bean aligner and they always do a top job. Price is £25 for a check and then £15 if adjustment is needed. Full 'before and after' printouts are available. The guys work fast and accurate. Watch out for places that drag the job out and then want to charge £100.

[HER3TIC]

i have no problems with mine, i've had it to 120mph and it was still very smooth

as Hauptmann said it is very easy to be doing 100mph, and be so smooth you dont even realise :/

[haithamali]

Something is definitely loose or out of balance. Tried up to 150mph for a good 15 minutes and it was absolutely fine.

[gatsbys]

I'll have to contact the dealer and see what they say.....its a bit of a pain taking time to take it there-but it definately needs sorting