VRS TDI problems

[derbyjon]

Hi all,

I've had my 57 plate VRS TDI from new, 38,500 trouble free miles until today.

Earlier today I was doing about 75mph on the motorway in heavy rain (which I'd been doing for about 90 minutes) when I noticed a momentary drop in power and revs. A few seconds later it happened again and I got a "Engine fault Workshop" message on the MFD, and the glow plug indicator came on.

I stopped on the hard-shoulder, and switched off the engine for a few minutes. It restarted first time with no messages or indicators showing, and I was able to drive the last 8 miles or so home with the car feeling normal.

I've just nipped outside (about 6 hours after getting back) to put it in the garage and it won't start.

First attempt, plenty of fast cranking but not firing, exhaust and battery indicators showing.

Second attempt, again plenty of fast cranking but not firing, exhaust and battery indicators showing. Then after I stopped cranking there was a brief (maybe 1 second) MFD warning of low oil pressure.

I've left it at that for tonight as it's dark. I'll check the oil level in the morning, but I suspect that might be a red herring.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. It's no longer under warranty.

Thanks,

Jon.

[KevC]

Hi all,

I've had my 57 plate VRS TDI from new, 38,500 trouble free miles until today.

Earlier today I was doing about 75mph on the motorway in heavy rain (which I'd been doing for about 90 minutes) when I noticed a momentary drop in power and revs. A few seconds later it happened again and I got a "Engine fault Workshop" message on the MFD, and the glow plug indicator came on.

I stopped on the hard-shoulder, and switched off the engine for a few minutes. It restarted first time with no messages or indicators showing, and I was able to drive the last 8 miles or so home with the car feeling normal.

I've just nipped outside (about 6 hours after getting back) to put it in the garage and it won't start.

First attempt, plenty of fast cranking but not firing, exhaust and battery indicators showing.

Second attempt, again plenty of fast cranking but not firing, exhaust and battery indicators showing. Then after I stopped cranking there was a brief (maybe 1 second) MFD warning of low oil pressure.

I've left it at that for tonight as it's dark. I'll check the oil level in the morning, but I suspect that might be a red herring.

Any suggestions would be most welcome. It's no longer under warranty.

Thanks,

Jon.

I had the same symptons before and it turned out to be an injector after going down. I hope I'm wrong as its a costly fix but it is a common enough fault in those Seimens injectors. However until you get it scanned with VCDS we are only guessing.

[derbyjon]

Thanks Kev.

I've checked the oil this morning and it was fine.

Turned ignition to position 2 and left for 30 seconds - no warnings. Then tried starting, cranked it for 15 seconds, doesn't fire up followed by the brief low oil pressure warning again.

Off to the local garage now to see if they have a VCDS so I can get some fault codes.

[derbyjon]

Called for breakdown recovery. Their hand-held diagnostics kit showed no stored faults and they couldn't identify the problem.

So I've had it towed to MT Specialist Cars in Castleford. Hopefully they can throw some light on it.

[bond007]

if it is an injector let me know as i've got one, it was fitted to a customers car for a few minutes but didnt cure the fault so was removed and put back in its box. bad news is these are £345.24+vat from the dealers so i hope for your sake it isnt an injector

[derbyjon]

Thanks Bond.

They've found a fault code which at present is pointing to a dead injector loom.

They need to check for electrical shorts on the injectors first to see if any of them have died.

This clearly won't be cheap, but I'm relieved the root cause is being traced.

[bond007]

if its the loom your fine its only £81.16 inc vat for that

[derbyjon]

Bad news.

All injectors were reading the same resistance. So they replaced the wiring loom but that didn't fix the problem.

They've now used some more kit (I think from an auto-electrician) and have diagnosed TWO of the injectors dead.

Is that possible?

[bond007]

unfortunately yes i supplied a bloke with 2 last week as 3 weeks before he replaced the other 2 as they had gone down so it had cost him around £1500 just in parts

[derbyjon]

Thanks again for the feedback Bond. Was that on an Octavia?

Could there be some other underlying root cause for several dying in a short space of time - what conditions would accelerate failure of an injector?

[bond007]

mixed talk on this i've known a few say wrong oil and some say a rubbish design, vag have changed the injectors now supplied and it smacks of the old abs unit problem. no this was on a seat leon FR but with the same BMN engine as yours. also common on the 140BHP passat aswell. theres 8 of each in our stock they're that common

[KevC]

mixed talk on this i've known a few say wrong oil and some say a rubbish design, vag have changed the injectors now supplied and it smacks of the old abs unit problem. no this was on a seat leon FR but with the same BMN engine as yours. also common on the 140BHP passat aswell. theres 8 of each in our stock they're that common

Are the injectors now supplied the same part number and when did VAG change them?

[bond007]

no the part number originally were 03G 130 073 M and is now 03G 130 073 T, maybe a modification or maybe just a new batch

[derbyjon]

MTS are now uncertain whether it is the injectors as the car is behaving differently from previous experience they have with injector failure.

Rather than risk fitting new injectors unnecessarily, they are going to call DM Keith (Skoda dealer) in Leeds where the car has been serviced from new, and ask for a second opinion. They feel that a car just over 3 years old with 38K miles on the clock should not be having these kind of problems.

I'm inclined to agree, and despite enjoying the car to this point it will be a difficult sell trying to persuade the missus to get another Skoda when we next change cars. So it may well be back to Honda next time.

[derbyjon]

Skoda refused to assist, so MTS are on their own. :|

They fitted a second hand injector which got the engine running, but then the revs started climbing so they switched off and reinvestigated.

They found a lot (a couple of gallons) of fuel in the sump. Therefore they now strongly suspect the original fault was a seal in the high-pressure fuel pump, which is the next thing to be replaced. This theory has been confirmed with some Audi technicians.

They've changed the oil already, but they think it will need changing again to make sure there's no diesel contamination in there.

This is turning into a bit of a nightmare.

[derbyjon]

I got my car back from MTS 2 weeks ago. I still don't trust it entirely but I've since done around 400 miles with no problems and the car feels normal.

The fuel pump was replaced, together with a second-hand injector and an oil change to flush out the leaked diesel. MTS only charged for 6 hours labour which is incredibly reasonable of them. In total the bill was just shy of a grand. I'll post back to this thread if any related issues crop up.

[bond007]

how much did you pay for the 2nd hand injector?

[derbyjon]

250+VAT

[bond007]

how much?????????????? i've got one still in the box that was only fitted for 5 minutes best whack it on flea bay

[derbyjon]

I suspect they are carved from the horns of baby unicorns.

[bertie1249]

Just bought a Brand New one from Merlin Diesel in Preston for £390 including vat. Skoda wanted £570

[dorsetrommy]

if it is an injector let me know as i've got one, it was fitted to a customers car for a few minutes but didnt cure the fault so was removed and put back in its box. bad news is these are £345.24+vat from the dealers so i hope for your sake it isnt an injector

Hi if you've still got the injector- i need one! Can u email me on [email protected] or call me on 07710 842 999

cheers

Rommy

[DickyP]

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=312488

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=268033

Look at the above threads on seat Cupra regarding the same engine, I have a PD 170 that has had to injectors fail. One in warranty and the second this week but Seat paid for parts and labour.

Have a look and submit your failures to vosa, trying to force recall on grounds of safety due to the engine shut down when they fail, I can vouch this can be scary at motorway speeds and whilst overtaking.

[derbyjon]

I've just submitted a safety defect report to VOSA. Only takes 5 minutes from here.

[jfarhead]

I've just submitted a safety defect report to VOSA. Only takes 5 minutes from here.

Everyone on the Audi Forums have been smashing out those forms, we have some good momentum on this now!

www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehicledefects.htm