I've been hearing this phrase "generic remap" a lot of late and the general feeling is that a "generic" remap is not as good as a "custom" remap.

I'd love to hear some views from people about where this phrase comes from. What is a "generic" remap? What is a "custom" remap?

Hopefully this thread will be able to explain to me what the general buying public (i.e. you lot!) think are the differences and hopefully we can understand it a little better, because to be honest it's got me stumped!

My understanding:-

Generic map - May also be called a "stage 1" map. Resets the mapping parameters to "less conservative" values, but is supplied on a "one size fits all" basis, and takes no account of any other genuine optomisations of components. Can be installed simply by reflashing an EEPROM.

Custom map - Can only be installed in conjunction with a rolling road or "private track" session. The operator will tweak the settings to take maximum advantage of any other genuine component optomisations fitted, eg a 200 CEL cat.

My 2p:

Generic map:

Work was done with rolling road/live data etc on a car (hopefully standard)to develop a new engine map. This map is then transferred to other cars with same engine/electronics etc. So if the original car got 30BHP increase, you can say that if you put that map on another car which is the same, you will also get 30BHP increase (although with +- BHP tolerance). The generic map was/is a custom map for the ORIGINAL base car.

Custom map:

(I would) Using a generic remap to start with as a basis (which was a 'custom' map to start with at some point, stay with me!)use a rolling road or live data to devleop a map specifically for that car. I.e. owner my ALWAYS run super unleaded, so increase boost further, owner may have hybrid etc. Engines/cars all all different (hopefully less now with electronics and improved machining tolerancing, although there still is engine wear!) so you may be able to tailor certain parameters of the map to get a further increase.

Custom map takes more time/equipment, so you can easily accept it will cost more. Although on a 'standard' just remapped engine I wonder what the additional benefit/cost over a 'generic' map is.

If I wanted a remap to focus more on improved mpg, (and any increase in power is just a by-product) then I would term this as a "custom map".

If I just wanted the extra 35bhp then I'd buy the "generic" remap which as others have said, takes no account of my specific car or requirements.

But then I'm new to remaps etc......:S

Edited 17 February, 201115 yr by 2SkodaFamily

My 2p:

Generic map:

Work was done with rolling road/live data etc on a car (hopefully standard)to develop a new engine map. This map is then transferred to other cars with same engine/electronics etc. So if the original car got 30BHP increase, you can say that if you put that map on another car which is the same, you will also get 30BHP increase (although with +- BHP tolerance). The generic map was/is a custom map for the ORIGINAL base car.

Custom map:

(I would) Using a generic remap to start with as a basis (which was a 'custom' map to start with at some point, stay with me!)use a rolling road or live data to devleop a map specifically for that car. I.e. owner my ALWAYS run super unleaded, so increase boost further, owner may have hybrid etc. Engines/cars all all different (hopefully less now with electronics and improved machining tolerancing, although there still is engine wear!) so you may be able to tailor certain parameters of the map to get a further increase.

Custom map takes more time/equipment, so you can easily accept it will cost more. Although on a 'standard' just remapped engine I wonder what the additional benefit/cost over a 'generic' map is.

Good explanation and this is also what I believe to be the differences.

OK, some interesting views there.

So if you have an otherwise standard car, is there any point in a "custom" remap? Indeed is there such a thing as a "custom map" on a standard car?

i would say generic is you have one map for all of one type of car/engine. ie the same map would go on all octavia vrs cr170

where as a custom one would be tweaked to each individual car weather it be in standard or modified state. as surely they will all perform slightly different etc

+2 on Higgy's post,

OK, some interesting views there.

So if you have an otherwise standard car, is there any point in a "custom" remap? Indeed is there such a thing as a "custom map" on a standard car?

Yes, each standard car is different. Each driver is different, with different needs and requirements.

Custom map for me is tune the specific car to the specific driver style.

Generic is tune the car from a baseline car, perhaps mixing a few 'eco drives' and 'mental drives' options. .

Edit: I have a question for you - I was confused a while ago when Shark Performance was offering custom maps.

The method was: send your codes to the company, they will send you back a custom mapped code, then insert into car. I didn't realise custom mapping can be done without a dyno? Maybe definitions different? Or I just don't understand mapping.

Edited 18 February, 201115 yr by JLneonhug

Edit: I have a question for you - I was confused a while ago when Shark Performance was offering custom maps.

The method was: send your codes to the company, they will send you back a custom mapped code, then insert into car. I didn't realise custom mapping can be done without a dyno? Maybe definitions different? Or I just don't understand mapping.

Very good question. I've always thought a true custom remap would need a dyno. I know most will just tweak a generic map as there's no point in reinventing the wheel each time.

If I wanted a remap to focus more on improved mpg, (and any increase in power is just a by-product) then I would term this as a "custom map".

If I just wanted the extra 35bhp then I'd buy the "generic" remap which as others have said, takes no account of my specific car or requirements.

But then I'm new to remaps etc......:S

You can create a generic map that's focussed on economy rather than power, or a bit of both, say economy up to 50% throttle, and power above that. This is particularly true of a diesel, where you can be making more power than you need for steady speed cruising on a level road, and power is sort of proportional to fuel injected* with no constraint of "running too lean"

* Look Shark_1, I know this is a simplification; if you can be bothered with a more detailed expn, feel free, but don't throw a strop at me cos I can't.

i would say generic is you have one map for all of one type of car/engine. ie the same map would go on all octavia vrs cr170

where as a custom one would be tweaked to each individual car weather it be in standard or modified state. as surely they will all perform slightly different etc

Ok, I see where you're going with that, although that's not entirely possible. Each ECU has different software even if the engine is the same, so across the range of CR170 Octavias I think I've seen at least 7 or so different versions, possibly more.

Your idea of custom matches mine however for a car that doesn't have extensive mods, is there a point in a customer paying for that? Indeed, just because it's "custom" does it make it better than a map that's been written properly in the first place? Are the customisations supposedly to that specific car actually any good?

Would you rather have a properly written "generic" map or a poorly written "custom" map?

Ok, I see where you're going with that, although that's not entirely possible. Each ECU has different software even if the engine is the same, so across the range of CR170 Octavias I think I've seen at least 7 or so different versions, possibly more.

Your idea of custom matches mine however for a car that doesn't have extensive mods, is there a point in a customer paying for that? Indeed, just because it's "custom" does it make it better than a map that's been written properly in the first place? Are the customisations supposedly to that specific car actually any good?

Would you rather have a properly written "generic" map or a poorly written "custom" map?

I think a problem you will have is that most of the replies will be form those who understand the process (to a degree) and are at least familiar with the terms.

I have seen a few posts recently where a potential new buyer has seen several companies offering what we would all consider a "generic" remap but some have called it this and others have called it "custom" the difficulty I think Shark will find is how do you retain or attract that customer when they wrongly think one supplier is giving them something "better" than another - especially when what they think will be better could well be a load of garbage.

like you say - every map is or has been "custom" at some point in its life so its not technically untrue to call it that :(

forum like this will at least help direct people towards a respected tuner with a proven history which is far more important than the advertising and branding of the product

Edited 18 February, 201115 yr by opentoideas

Custom wouldn't have to be a full rolling road tune for me. If it was a case of logging timing advance, fuelling and what not over some runs and making minor tweaks. As long as those tweaks resulted in a visible difference in measurements of 0.0000001, i'd leave feeling i got my moneys worth. Folks just like to feel unique, keeps humans happy :-)

It's slightly different for shark maps, i don't think i'd buy the custom version. You've such a large rep that i think everyone knows theres no need to tweak. The various (owner submitted, which makes a difference) RR graphs posted show this for all to see. Maybe stick some owner submitted Graphs on your site though, it's a pain googling brisky for the latest graphs :-) The provenance is proven.

Whereas a bloke that turns up on the driveway with a 10 year old ebay laptop loaded with generic maps for every make under the sun...

* Look Shark_1, I know this is a simplification; if you can be bothered with a more detailed expn, feel free, but don't throw a strop at me cos I can't.

Where did that come from? Have I said something to upset you in the past? No strops from me I assure you!

Yes, each standard car is different. Each driver is different, with different needs and requirements.

Now that's an interesting point, because I've never had a customer in so far with a list (or indeed an idea) of requirements and I'm yet to have anyone say "actually, I don't like that, can you change it?"

So what requirements would you have from your map, for example?

Edit: I have a question for you - I was confused a while ago when Shark Performance was offering custom maps.

The method was: send your codes to the company, they will send you back a custom mapped code, then insert into car. I didn't realise custom mapping can be done without a dyno? Maybe definitions different? Or I just don't understand mapping.

We can do just about anything. Change the code for individual requirements, vehicle requirements (i.e. modifications). As many people will know, we don't have a dyno although of course we have access to one if required. However we've tuned many cars with extensive modifications on the road with logging equipment.

Also, through knowledge and experience I'd like to think we can offer customised maps to people via STS units. We have two customers that I can think of who have extensively modified their cars, one in Aruba and one in Lebanon and we work with them regularly to make sure their car is running at it's best for what they want to do, and we haven't even seen the cars (apart from in pictures).

I think a problem you will have is that most of the replies will be form those who understand the process (to a degree) and are at least familiar with the terms.

I know what you're saying, I hope perhaps that some of the guys that perhaps don't know the process so well might give their opinions. After all, they're the kinds of people that buy things based on what other forum users (et al) say, and they're the views I'm really looking for.

I know what you're saying, I hope perhaps that some of the guys that perhaps don't know the process so well might give their opinions. After all, they're the kinds of people that buy things based on what other forum users (et al) say, and they're the views I'm really looking for.

well having not done it yet I am sort of in that camp, one of the things I am unsure of and may fall into the category of the whole laymans generic vs custom would be more on the little extras.

eg. with a basic stage 1 remap can the supplier do things to tailor the map for me or do they just have a one size fits all and there is no change possible.

its already been mentioned things like power vs economy (although from what I can tell there isnt really any difference as with extra power you get the economy if you dont use the "loud" pedal too much - could be wrong here)

but what about disabling the check engine light after an EGR delete

disabling the headlight bulb warning for those that want HID's

all of the other things that anyone with VAGCOM can do to tailor things like seatbelt warning lights and door lock settings.

not all of these fit under a remap but they would be the sort of customisations that as a layman might be expected from the gods that plug a computer into the car and do magic

I would guess that these sort of things may be what folks are looking for from a custom map as oposed to generic where they expect more power but perhaps not any other little tweaks that they may desire

Having recently purchased an Octavia VRS (only 2 weeks ago) and being a Honda enthausiast, i've been looking through varuious sites to see whats what and to find the best route to take with regards modifications. Forced induction and VAG's are all new to me so i'm a complete novice and starting from the beginning is hard work :p

So my view on the above (as already mentioned) WAS that a generic map would be a "one size fits all" map where you could just send off your ecu and have the new map uploaded, and would be based on a vehicle with no or minimum mods.

A custom map in my eyes would be where a certain vehicle was mapped on a dyno, and the map was designed specificaly for that car and its current mods on that given day, hence a "custom map".

The Octavia I just purchased came to me with very little history and had obviously not been looked after. However i've since found a Forge 007 fitted and the boost gauge holds at at 15psi on WOT which I assume isnt standard (although it doesnt feel as quick as I would expect with a remap). For this reason and the fact my knowledge is quite limited, I presumed this would be a cheap Generic map and not a proper Custom map (plus the fact the previous owner doesnt appear to be the type of person to do things properly )

"forums like this will at least help direct people towards a respected tuner with a proven history which is far more important than the advertising and branding of the product"

Couldnt agree more, hence why I will soon be booking a data logging/remap session once i've fitted a few parts to make sure all is good with my new purcahse

Kris!

Edited 18 February, 201115 yr by Kris!

I've been hearing this phrase "generic remap" a lot of late and the general feeling is that a "generic" remap is not as good as a "custom" remap.

I'd love to hear some views from people about where this phrase comes from. What is a "generic" remap? What is a "custom" remap?

Hopefully this thread will be able to explain to me what the general buying public (i.e. you lot!) think are the differences and hopefully we can understand it a little better, because to be honest it's got me stumped!

I don't what a 'generic map' is. I think that buyers confuse the service being offered with the map itself.

If you have no tuning expertise but can flash an ECU, then maybe you are offering a 'generic map'.

I think that buyers confuse the service being offered with the map itself.

thats what I was trying to get at. well put.

well, Ben, as someone who is planning on having a remap at some point this year, (and knows almost nothing about the process), I'm currently looking at a map from either you, which is what I would call generic, in that its the same map that anyone else with a pd engine would get. Or one of the other site sponsors who offer a custom map for over £100 less.

Basically, I have read good reports about both maps, so I can't really see what the difference would be?

does anyone else sell the same maps as shark?

does anyone else sell the same maps as shark?

Nope, if you come to us you get a Shark Performance map.

well, Ben, as someone who is planning on having a remap at some point this year, (and knows almost nothing about the process), I'm currently looking at a map from either you, which is what I would call generic, in that its the same map that anyone else with a pd engine would get. Or one of the other site sponsors who offer a custom map for over £100 less.

Basically, I have read good reports about both maps, so I can't really see what the difference would be?

This is a great one for me and exactly the situation that I'm talking about.

If our map is what you call generic, and the other is what you'd call custom, then what's the actual difference in what you're buying?

I don't generally knock other tuning companies (there are certain exceptions) but I absolutely wouldn't knock a fellow Briskoda sponsor as I'd have no grounds to.

However, take the fact that it's a sponsor away for a second and imagine it's AN Other Tuning Co, if our stage 1 software is what you'd call generic, then is that the poor relation to a custom map, regardless of cost? Or could there be benefits in a properly written map even if it does get used more than once? What about if the person writing the custom map has a poor understanding of that ECU type or simply uses software to make the changes for them semi-automatically? Perhaps both of the above?

BTW I absolutely don't want this to be a Shark vs the world thread, I'm genuinely interested in the buying public's view.

This is a great one for me and exactly the situation that I'm talking about.

If our map is what you call generic, and the other is what you'd call custom, then what's the actual difference in what you're buying?

I hope that you will help to explain this once you have found out the percieved difference :D

I think one of the difficulties as a buyer is the complete lack of information on what a map is/how a map is accomplished - I can understand that there are secrets that each writer will want to keep but some - if I can use the term - "generic" info would be helpfull.

I imagine that there are a number of values that can be altered to change the ECU's behaviour with regards to sensors and valves and "things" (technical term that one )

I can also imagine that a tuner could fiddle with these in real time and call it custom or "just" upload it and be called generic (please excuse the gross simplification - I believe its several hours of coding work to "just" upload a map :p )

personally I dont think either way is inherantly "better" but I suspect I would be in the minority - I put more importance into the tuners knowledge of what the effects of the tinkering will be and tried and tested results from doing the same set of modifications to the same car. I also suspect that someone who can plug in an play for a while will only be able to provide simple enhansments and not a true tailored solution which may be why certain "custom" maps are considered more harsh than a quality "generic" maps which are well respected for providing quality real world drivability as well as the unfortunately cherished power numbers :no:

of course I could be talking utter garbage - this is all just an educated guess - and why I hope you will clarify when you have the information you are after

I also agree with the other posts that any map to a standard car I would consider generic - I cant see how it would be anything else - custom would only be where you have to take into account additional performance enhancements already made to an engine which would require specific tailoring of the map to suit the alterations from standard.

unfortunately there are companies calling maps to standard cars "custom" which leads to this confusion

Edited 19 February, 201115 yr by opentoideas