VAG 170 PS Diesel Injector Failures - VOSA action

[jfarhead]

Hello guys,

I am an 2.0 TDI 170PS owner (2006) and I have been hit by the diesel injector failures everyone has been experiencing on the 170PS engines. I found out recently Skoda Octavia may be suffering similar issues. I don't know how Skoda are dealing with this (if it is happening) but Audi are only replacing them when they fail. Anyone who has had this failure will know it is catastrophic and dangerous (engine instantly cuts out, no brakes, no steering). Audi say it is a coincidence and hence we have 1000s of drivers running around waiting for a failure on a motorway. Anyone who does not service with Audi directly is ignored by Audi too, even though injectors are not checked in services and the fault is not detectable. I have launched a campaign to get people to report this to VOSA as it is serious, here is a copy of what I posted on Audi-Sport.net, feel free to repost where necessary if you know this affects the Skoda community and if you feel the safety issue affects you too.

Thanks for your time guys, apologies if this is irrelevant to your engines.

------------------------From Audi-Sport.net-------------

This from audi-sport.net today !!!!! ................

Update from VOSA

They have had a meeting today with regards to this issue as it seems to be affecting anything with a 170 engine judging from the reports they have been getting. They want as many people as are affected to step forward and file a report to see how widespread the issue is and officially who's affected by this. They will be contacting VAG shortly and it will take up to 6 weeks to get an official response.

Let's see them make an excuse to VOSA about FASH now, (if FASH made any difference, we wouldn't have people asking like beggars for goodwill gestures, or getting the fault in the first place!)

Please please please get other people involved, on other forums or someone you know may have been affected. Even you guys that have had the injectors swapped, please file a report, it takes 2 minutes online and can help everyone.

I (we) are not after free injectors, I couldn't care less about them at this point. The fact Audi/VAG are STILL letting people drive around with a ticking timebomb IS EVERYONE'S PROBLEM. If they don't sort this problem out and get away with it, they'll be more inclined to sweep other "coincidences" under the rug too.

Please file, give VOSA the ammo they need, please re-post on other forums, anything with a 170 is affected:

VOSA LINK:

www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehicledefects.htm

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J

[sorin83]

I think that's a very good idea. After reading all the bad experiences that people are having with the Siemens injectors i'm a bit scared of taking long drives with my car.

[ruffday]

Do you really lose the steering and brakes or are they just harder to use??????

Surley the brakes still work as the servo only assists with braking pressure and the same with the steering.

[davey g]

Do you really lose the steering and brakes or are they just harder to use??????

Surley the brakes still work as the servo only assists with braking pressure and the same with the steering.

Makes it all sound very scary eh.

[rotodiesel]

This fault is so bad that VAG (to my knowledge) never sold PD engines in the US with this system - all the PDs sold there had 8 valve heads and Bosch solenoid injectors which fail "soft" (but very infrequently).

VAG presumably knew that the US Transport Authorities would take them to the cleaners over this issue. They also know VOSA is a pushover.

Sudden engine failure is a dangerous fault - and usually expensive.

rotodiesel.

Edited 6 April, 2011 by rotodiesel

[stringbean]

Do you really lose the steering and brakes or are they just harder to use??????

Surley the brakes still work as the servo only assists with braking pressure and the same with the steering.

It sounds like you've never lost servo assistance or power steering when you've been approaching a junction.

The first car I had was an old mk3 Fiesta that had a nasty 'feature' where the vacuum tube to the brake servo would fall out occasionally (thankfully only while the engine was off). Without this pipe the engine would run rough at low revs and you lost all servo assist on the brakes. The first time this happened I thought that the engine was just running a little rough and nearly sailed through a red light into busy traffic. I was lucky that I was only going slowly, that I had some warning that the car was playing up and that I had a strong right foot.

If the engine cuts out at high speed when you need to stop suddenly (somebody playing silly bleeders on the motorway for example) then the chances are that you are going to have an accident. This is assuming that you aren't someone who would panic in such a scenario and veer into the nearest lorry - and before anyone starts there are people that would react this way. Think about the recent issues in the past with cars suddenly accelerating and the way that people have reacted.

[jfarhead]

We've had alot of people share their experiences, and we all say the same thing... the engine light goes on, by the time you look down, the dashboard lights up and steering becomes rock solid, the braking becomes very stiff and now you're stuck between "do I stomp on the brake or do I carry on with whatever momentum I have to try and get it on the side?".... meanwhile, in my case I completely forgot I was still in gear and it really slowed down the car... people behind me wondering what the hell I was doing.

Luckily it was a 30mph zone and I got it near the curb... that evening I found out I was one of many many people who had this problem... and due to lack of response from Audi UK, we're taking action ourselves. Now if any Skodas on a 170 share the same components (as I've been informed), then this fault is something you should know about.

Audi will not recall and replace them. They do it on a fail-by-fail basis and only for FASH customers... because non FASH customers' safety is worth less to them(?)

My intention isn't to scaremonger, but if it does affect you, you should really be informed.

Thanks

J

[DickyP]

this is the below briskoda thread and the seat Leon one below that, I have had injectors fail at speed and yes you do have brakes and steering but at a much reduced rate. Bear in mind this is a 1500kg car were talking about about not a 1980's mini so some force is required to stop the thing.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/187513-vrs-tdi-problems/

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=268033

[sorin83]

Here is a list of failed injectors from a Romanian VW forum (page 53):

http://vwforum.vwforum.ro/topic/52745-injectoare-pd-20tdi-distruse/page__view__findpost__p__1542418

As you can imagine there are lists like this on all the VAG forums concerning the 2.0 TDI Siemens injectors.

Edited 7 April, 2011 by sorin83

[bond007]

we sell loads of these more commonly the pd140 ones fitted in the passats, we on average do 1 of the 170bhp ones a week and keep them on the shelf, at nearly £500 a pop its not bad business

[bertie1249]

This happened to me last month. It was frightening as I was overtaking at the time with another car behind me. Nearly had an accident.Had to buy a new injector at £390, refused to pay the skoda price of £570, plus the cost of wiring loom and skoda labour. Totally pis*** off with skoda who refused to snot it was a common problem. You can count me in on this.

[jfarhead]

As you can imagine there are lists like this on all the VAG forums concerning the 2.0 TDI Siemens injectors.

That's good, now we can turn "general discussion" into action. Thanks to you guys spreading the word too, VOSA are getting battered with forms form all over. The question is, will VOSA have a backbone and stand up to VAG or will they accept the first carefully worded vague excuse they are given. If VOSA don't get this done, I'll personally make sure it's platered on the papers and TV especially with so many people involved now!

[onmeheadson]

Count me in. This hasn't happened to me but i'm living in fear that it will especially when the wife's driving and the kids are in the car. I cant see vag ever agreeing to a recall though. Do we know what causes the injector to fail?

[bertie1249]

Well if its such a widespread problem, what about involving Watchdog ?????

[jfarhead]

Well if its such a widespread problem, what about involving Watchdog ?????

I've already send mine in to BBC, here's the link!

www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/

[rotodiesel]

Have a good look at this:

https://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/siemens-pd-piezo-injectors

These things are not fit for purpose - and VAG know it.

rotodiesel.

[400r]

Good on you jfarhead for taking the initiative on this!

I too was affected by this only this week. Link to my thread...

http://vagdrivers.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=62376&st=0

I started a seperate thread to try and raise awareness of the safety aspect of this issue so hopefully anybody affected will post and we can get more numbers up-not that i want people to be struck by this problem! but just so hopefully VAG can see this for themselves when the issue becomes big enough.

Link to safety issue thread...http://vagdrivers.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=62584

I'll do what i can from here. Keep up the good work and make sure you keep us posted on you're progress

[400r]

Have a good look at this:

https://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/siemens-pd-piezo-injectors

These things are not fit for purpose - and VAG know it.

rotodiesel.

Excellent posting Thanks for that. More ammo jfarhead!

[jfarhead]

Thanks for the replies guys! Seems like the Audi forums in Australia and Romania are kicking up a fuss too according to some links I have been sent from some members on Audi-Sport.Net:

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b7-chassis/104538-anyone-else-problem-2006-2-0-tdi-injectors-2.html

http://vwforum.vwforum.ro/topic/52745-injectoare-pd-20tdi-distruse/page__pid__1552779__st__1060#entry1552779

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=312488

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f28/103kw-125kw-tdi-pd-piezo-siemens-injector-failure-thread-54215.html

I'll cross refence your forum here as they are keen to see who else in involved and how big the problem is!

[DickyP]

Had letter from VOSA stating received and actioning so get your issues new and old in referring to these injectors.

Can this be a sticky at top of forum?

[illavehalf]

strewth this is a bit much almost a deal spoiler if anyone was near to signing on the dotted id be thinking again ! by the way exactly which engines and models are affected by this problem cheers!

[partyboy1101]

I'm in....already had 2 fail on my PD170, at £600+ each time it's not funny.....one failure was on the motorway too, luckily I was in the inside lane and just cruised onto the hard shoulder. The second failure was on a country road, at night, with my two kids in the back. I pushed the car about 100 metres to get away from the blind bend and the relative safety of a pub car park.

What's the betting I'll never get any financial recompense for the injectors that have already failed?

[nick74]

strewth this is a bit much almost a deal spoiler if anyone was near to signing on the dotted id be thinking again ! by the way exactly which engines and models are affected by this problem cheers!

As far as the Octavia is concerned it only affects the PD170 VRS, but not the PD105 or PD140.

With the rest of the VAG range it gets more complicated and also affects some of the PD140s, such as those in the Passat.

[partyboy1101]

VOSA form sent!!

[partyboy1101]

After sending a report to VOSA I thought I'd give Skoda UK an opportunity to do the right thing and sent an email to Customer Services. I received a call back this morning to discuss the problems and advise of the possibilities of receiving a goodwill gesture for the relatively large costs in replacing two injectors.

Apparently if I had the works undertaken at a Skoda garage (rather than an independant) then an automatic goodwill request would have been raised to Skoda HQ. Unfortunately mine was undertaken at an independant!

Skoda UK also have a goodwill scheme however this is based upon brand loyalty and requires that the car was bought directly from Skoda (mine was bought from a second hand retailer) and that all servicing is done by Skoda (mine goes to an independant which is cheaper and arguably more capable). Fail on both counts!!! Back to the drawing board!