Hi all

I've noticed something that has come up in a few threads I've been following, but I've not been able to work out if there is a definitive answer.

My question: is there a real difference between the fuel you get from a supermarket filling station, and the branded fuels (e.g. Shell, BP)?

I've never previously had a brand new car, and I'm keen to treat my Fabia Greenline II with the respect it deserves when it arrives in a few weeks. At the moment I tend to fill up my old banger at the local Sainsbury's petrol station, partly because it's slightly cheaper (normally 1-2p but sometimes 5 or 6p per litre cheaper) than the branded stations, but more importantly because of the Nectar points I can rack up - pays for booze at Christmas!

I'd never really known there was a difference in the fuel between different filling stations, but I gather things such as additives can vary somewhat and can make a big difference to engine performance and lifespan.

Can anyone with vastly superior knowledge to my own explain why there are differences (if there are), and what do people recommend for the best fuels?

Should supermarket filling stations be avoided (I'm sure I saw it suggested that there were poor quality additives used)? It'll be diesel of course - not sure if the differences are more/less stark than with petrol where of course you get more "super" varieties?

Cheers RLGL2 :think:

My uncle owns a few petrol stations up north and says that supermarket fuel has less additives in it and obv more additives are better for the engine etc. I tend to listen to him since that's what his day to day buisness is etc

I buy my fuel at shell (because it's local and is on par with everywhere else price wise). I use my AMEX credit card to pay for it.. get 1.5% back in cashback on all fuel purchases and use my shell drivers card so get some vouchers through every few months with money off fuel and also over the year using my AMEX credit card I get about £30-35 back on fuel which all helps!

Edited 24 April, 201115 yr by adamc260

Another Shell user here... I do use Tesco when we get the 5ppl voucher and it doesn't run as well as when i have Shell in it... and yes, I can tell the difference!

Never used BP as its always too expensive... No others at cheap prices locally!

using my AMEX credit card I get about £30-35 back on fuel which all helps!

I also use AMEX, though mine is the nectar credit card which is partly why I can rack up so many points on my fuel spend. I'd probably still use it though if I started using Shell or BP (the two nearest me).

What kind of additives make the difference then? (Excuse my ignorance!)

Is it just a case of them not adding them to the supermarket fuels, or do the brands use a better quality of additive?

All fuels, whether supermarket or main stream forecourt, have to meet certain standards. For gasoline/petrol this is BS EN 228 and for Diesel it is BS EN 590. Then, for the bio component of the diesel fuel there is ISO 14214 and a similar spec for bio ethanol that is used in gasoline which i can't recall at present.

So all fuels meet a minimum, but that does not mean that they can not be improved. As such, my understanding is as that of adamc260, and that dependent on the final destination of the fuel, the tanker at the loading gantry of the terminal, will have additives blended into the fuel whilst it is being loaded. As we will have all seen, Shell introduced their Fuel Save fuel that claimed to give you an extra litre per tank fill. This i understand was achieved through the addition of a friction modifier which reduces some of the mechanical loses within the engine (combustion chamber)/fuel delivery system.

When visiting Paul at RS Tuning a while ago for a remap, he did the first dyno run, scratched his head and asked me if i was running Morrisons petrol in it. I was. We got into a whole conversation about supermarket petrol and his opinion, as someone who tunes many cars and sees all sorts of effects on performance, was that super market stuff in general is nothing to worry about, with Tesco being pretty good and Morrisons being really bad. No idea why though. Good and bad here are of course relative terms, and purely in relation to their effects on a car's performance.

Edited 24 April, 201115 yr by Didescharlie

All fuels, whether supermarket or main stream forecourt, have to meet certain standards. For gasoline/petrol this is BS EN 228 and for Diesel it is BS EN 590. Then, for the bio component of the diesel fuel there is ISO 14214 and a similar spec for bio ethanol that is used in gasoline which i can't recall at present.

So all fuels meet a minimum, but that does not mean that they can not be improved. As such, my understanding is as that of adamc260, and that dependent on the final destination of the fuel, the tanker at the loading gantry of the terminal, will have additives blended into the fuel whilst it is being loaded. As we will have all seen, Shell introduced their Fuel Save fuel that claimed to give you an extra litre per tank fill. This i understand was achieved through the addition of a friction modifier which reduces some of the mechanical loses within the engine (combustion chamber)/fuel delivery system.

Perhaps I'd be wise then to use (for example) Shell when I first pick up the new baby, but later down the line I'll do a little experimenting and see if I notice a difference. To be honest it's as much about protecting the engine for me as it is eeking out a few extra mpg, though I'm sure once I've got the car I'll become more obsessed with that (like some others on here! )

When visiting Paul at RS Tuning a while ago for a remap, he did the first dyno run, scratched his head and asked me if i was running Morrisons petrol in it. I was. We got into a whole conversation about supermarket petrol and his opinion, as someone who tunes many cars and sees all sorts of effects on performance, was that super market stuff in general is nothing to worry about, with Tesco being pretty good and Morrisons being really bad. No idea why though. Good and bad here are of course relative terms, and purely in relation to their effects on a car's performance.

That's interesting. Must be down to suppliers but I hadn't thought that there could even be a difference between supermarket brands. I wonder where Sainsbury's fall on the spectrum...

It certainly suggests I should steer clear of Morrison's fuel though.

How did he know you'd be using Morrison's petrol, then? What gave it away?

OK, automotive is not my speciality, thats aviation, and here we do use additives to boost the quality of Jet fuels for certain applications, so on the whole, if the fuel companies are adding them, they do so for specific reasons which should only benefit the user.

Simple answer to the question is suck it and see, experiment if you feel you want to. As i said, all fuels have to meet a minimum standard, some will exceed these requirements and others will scrape through.

btw, i have only put V-power in the vRS since i got it.

That's interesting. Must be down to suppliers but I hadn't thought that there could even be a difference between supermarket brands. I wonder where Sainsbury's fall on the spectrum...

It certainly suggests I should steer clear of Morrison's fuel though.

How did he know you'd be using Morrison's petrol, then? What gave it away?

Engine knocking is what he said gave it away. Plus a deficit of nearly 10bhp on the first dyno run, although he asked me about the petrol before the figures came in.

Edited 24 April, 201115 yr by Didescharlie

OK, automotive is not my speciality, thats aviation, and here we do use additives to boost the quality of Jet fuels for certain applications,

Is that when you stick loads of heavy bombs on

Stick another on for me please.

Is that when you stick loads of heavy bombs on

Stick another on for me please.

Possibly

Hi all

I've noticed something that has come up in a few threads I've been following, but I've not been able to work out if there is a definitive answer.

My question: is there a real difference between the fuel you get from a supermarket filling station, and the branded fuels (e.g. Shell, BP)?

I've never previously had a brand new car, and I'm keen to treat my Fabia Greenline II with the respect it deserves when it arrives in a few weeks. At the moment I tend to fill up my old banger at the local Sainsbury's petrol station, partly because it's slightly cheaper (normally 1-2p but sometimes 5 or 6p per litre cheaper) than the branded stations, but more importantly because of the Nectar points I can rack up - pays for booze at Christmas!

I'd never really known there was a difference in the fuel between different filling stations, but I gather things such as additives can vary somewhat and can make a big difference to engine performance and lifespan.

Can anyone with vastly superior knowledge to my own explain why there are differences (if there are), and what do people recommend for the best fuels?

Should supermarket filling stations be avoided (I'm sure I saw it suggested that there were poor quality additives used)? It'll be diesel of course - not sure if the differences are more/less stark than with petrol where of course you get more "super" varieties?

Cheers RLGL2 :think:

Hi RGL2, congrates on going for a Skoda Greenline. They are lovely motors and the guys on here with them seem to love them. You won't go wrong!

My two penneth on this fuel thingy...I fully concur with what the blokes are saying. I base this on experience with fuels over the years in cars and high performance motorcycles, and my time as a tech stripping and seeing what the different fuels do to an engine. There has been a lot of interest over the years in this subject by magazines too....and mostly not liking the supermarket fuels, although there are some exceptions. The main problem with supermarket fuel is a longer term one. Over time, they leave a nasty amount of brown sticky carbon in the engine and fuel lines. This can lead to performance and fuel economy degradation. Mostly, except maybe Morrisons, they perform roughly the same, but they use just secondary cleaning additives compared to the top branded fuels such as Esso and Shell who use first and second grade cleaners. They also lack upper cylinder lubricants. IIRC the fuel standards relate only to fuel combustability and burn cleanliness, and not the amount of debris they leave in the engine or how well they lubricate as they go through the engine. Supermarket diesel for instance has considerably less lubricating ability and as such can considerably reduce the life of your engines high pressure fuel pump. These babies cost £1,200 a piece when the bearing go and they can go prematurely on supermarket fuel according to Ford and Vauxhall. So much so that many manufacturer have been and still are considering suing the fuel companies for damages as the pumps sometimes fail in warranty on supermarket fuel. To be fair supermarkets have raised there game recently but are still some way short of the branded fuels.

Let us know when you get you new car and keep posting to tell us all how it is going. Good luck...

Hi RGL2, congrates on going for a Skoda Greenline. They are lovely motors and the guys on here with them seem to love them. You won't go wrong!

My two penneth on this fuel thingy...I fully concur with what the blokes are saying. I base this on experience with fuels over the years in cars and high performance motorcycles, and my time as a tech stripping and seeing what the different fuels do to an engine. There has been a lot of interest over the years in this subject by magazines too....and mostly not liking the supermarket fuels, although there are some exceptions. The main problem with supermarket fuel is a longer term one. Over time, they leave a nasty amount of brown sticky carbon in the engine and fuel lines. This can lead to performance and fuel economy degradation. Mostly, except maybe Morrisons, they perform roughly the same, but they use just secondary cleaning additives compared to the top branded fuels such as Esso and Shell who use first and second grade cleaners. They also lack upper cylinder lubricants. IIRC the fuel standards relate only to fuel combustability and burn cleanliness, and not the amount of debris they leave in the engine or how well they lubricate as they go through the engine. Supermarket diesel for instance has considerably less lubricating ability and as such can considerably reduce the life of your engines high pressure fuel pump. These babies cost £1,200 a piece when the bearing go and they can go prematurely on supermarket fuel according to Ford and Vauxhall. So much so that many manufacturer have been and still are considering suing the fuel companies for damages as the pumps sometimes fail in warranty on supermarket fuel. To be fair supermarkets have raised there game recently but are still some way short of the branded fuels.

Let us know when you get you new car and keep posting to tell us all how it is going. Good luck...

Thanks for the words of wisdom Estate man. I think since I'm forking out for a new car I might as well treat it well and will probably steer clear of the supermarket fuels for the majority of the time. It's never crossed my mind before with old cars, but this will be my first new car and I want to get the best out of it.

Due to pick it up in a few weeks - it was built last week - and I'll let you know how I get on...

5th gear did a feature on this a few years ago, it may be on youtube if you look. (hey had 3 cars I think it was a bottom of the range Corsa a mid range golf with around 160 _170 bhp and a Subaru. They dynoed all 3 cars using supermarket, regular branded petrol and a high octane petrol. Basically it made no difference with Corsa. The golf gained about 5 bhp and the Subaru 15. Conclusion based on performance only was don't bother paying extra with a low powered car. But there are gains to be made with higher powered ones.

Edited 25 April, 201115 yr by harryweld

Hopefully I can be of some help here lads. I work in the large refinery in Scotland which supplies fuel for the whole of the country plus some areas of northern England.

The various basic grades of fuel are all blended as normal and the additive packages that each different company requires are actually injected as the tankers are filled up.

I don't know much about these additives though. What I do know though is that some of the additives will lose effectiveness if you don't use a tank of fuel quite quickly.

IIRC by law in the UK normal unleaded petrol has to be between 93 and 97. Likewise Super is between 95 and 99. In theory you could actually buy a tank of Super that is of poorer quality than the regular stuff at the adjacent pump. Not too likely maybe as blends are tightly controlled and sampled for quality.

From personal experience I wouldn't really recommend one fuel over another but I have been driving my Boxster on Super for years and have seen the hit in MPG and range a car tuned for Super takes running on regular unleaded.

I only use Shell, if you search around and find one close to a supermarket they are usually price matching with it.

There are Two Shell garages in Bristol one close to a Sainsburys and another close to a Morrisons and Asda.

I don't make a special journey to them but fill up when passing.

I only use Shell, if you search around and find one close to a supermarket they are usually price matching with it.

There are Two Shell garages in Bristol one close to a Sainsburys and another close to a Morrisons and Asda.

I don't make a special journey to them but fill up when passing.

i always use shell very rare i use supermarket fuel only and only if i got to pete

Im using sainsburys super it seems good enough for my polo

Our local Shell garages are actually cheaper than the local supermarkets... Makes it a no-brainer really... and, as I said earlier, I can tell the difference with Shell in compared to Tesco or Sainsburys, the engines (1.9 and 1.4 TDis) do run better... However, as others have said, try a couple of tankfulls of each and make up your own mind!

I only use Shell, if you search around and find one close to a supermarket they are usually price matching with it.

There are Two Shell garages in Bristol one close to a Sainsburys and another close to a Morrisons and Asda.

I don't make a special journey to them but fill up when passing.

Actually I've noticed that myself, but only really with Shell. There are quite a few Shell garages dotted around South East London and a quick scan on petrolprices.com usually shows them to be cheaper when near a supermarket filling station.

Our local Shell garages are actually cheaper than the local supermarkets... Makes it a no-brainer really... and, as I said earlier, I can tell the difference with Shell in compared to Tesco or Sainsburys, the engines (1.9 and 1.4 TDis) do run better... However, as others have said, try a couple of tankfulls of each and make up your own mind!

I probably will. I think I'll start off with branded fuel while I'm running het in though, and test the theory out when I'm getting a fairly regular mpg.

In terms of performance, that's mainly what I'm after (max. Mpg) but I'm also keen to make sure I don't do anything to compromise the longevity of the engine. Extra horsepower isn't really on my mind as you can probably imagine!

As has been said, all standard diesel,& unleaded are made to a set standard. When a supermarket or Esso, Shell, it dosn't matter, go to the refienery to collect the fuel, all they do is collect the standard fuel and add their own detergent package (which inclueds various additives etc). Shell Vpower is made only at their main base and is not avaliable like the other fuels!! EVO mag did a test including dyno runs, long term testing, and visual inspection of combusion chamber, a few years back testing all the high end fuels Vpower, BP, race fuel, Tesco 99ron, etc, etc. Vpower came out good. All the top end ones are better than standard unleaded, but I've used Vpower for 6years now (was Optimax)and yes the car is more responsive, takes a couple of tankfulls befor you notice. I ran the tank to empty then filled with the Vpower, and repeated this about 3 times then changed the fuel filter as the detergents in the Vpower clean the tank better, flushing the crap from the previous standard unleaded into the filter.

EDIT:

Oopppss! you'er on diesel arn't you??!! Same practice applies tho' , and I think that Shell do a Vpower diesel fuel type!

Edited 25 April, 201115 yr by fabdavrav

Oh goody another what fuel is best thread :clap:

My questionable opinion is.....

Its all the same stuff as base stock. As other people have said the benefits are in the additives. From a diesel point of view (my car) the additives are cleaners and cetane improvers. I recently have been using Totals Excellium. Car seems to like it and the mpg did improve a little. Anyone thats ever tried it and had a good sniff while its filling will tell you it has a distinctive smell. This smell is identical to Millers ecomax additive which is 2EHN cetane improver and Naptha as a cleaner for your injectors/fuel system. Works out cheaper to use Excellium, plus you dont fall foul of Skodas policy on using no additives as its just forecourt fuel. Car regens slightly less often on Excellium.

When excellium isnt available I will use Esso or Shell standard fuel. I dont use supermarket fuel as I hate queueing. If I had a recommendation it would be to use whatever fuel you like but put a tank of premium stuff through every few tanks to keep things clean.