Well after the track day on Saturday at Castle Combe with some strange noises from the turbo, I thought it would be best to have it checked over asap. Good job really as its ******. This was the second turbo fitted to this car, after the original KKK lunched itself on the Nurburgring. This one has only been fitted for 30k miles.

There was no play in the bearings, but as you can see from the pictures something has been getting into the air intake and has mullered the blades. My thoughts are the dodgy airbox lid which has never sat right, but I think was letting a small amount of air past the air filter, and thus no filtration was taking place. Either that or some debris from the old failed turbo wasn't cleaned out properly and has been sucked in.

The turbo is getting sent away for inspection tomorrow, and to see if they can fit a new part. If they say that its not repairable then I really don't know what to do next! :(

:'(

on the plus side you might as well send it to turbo dynamics and get it hybrided while is out

I don't think they touch used turbo's any more to turn into a hybrid?

Did you upgrade the turbo for stage 2 or is it std?

Its just a standard PD150, had no issues with it at all, car went really well. Its just something has got into the intake and chipped the blades (quite badly!)

Sorry to hear this Simon :(

Bad luck old chap.

Upgrade time or new car time?

Get another one and hybrid it up

Think how much faster you'll pass me next time.

Likely to be some debris knocking about the pipework I'd imagine. Bad luck.

Did all the pipework get removed and cleaned when the turbo went on? Plus the intercooler/SMIC removed and flushed out?

It's possible that something as innocent as a small bit of paper can chip a turbo blade, as an example - such is the speed they rotate at.

Sorry to hear this Simon :(

Bad luck old chap.

Upgrade time or new car time?

Get another one and hybrid it up

Think how much faster you'll pass me next time.

If they say its repairable then I will just do that for now, can't afford a hybrid at the moment really, would have to come out of savings which I don't really want to do!

I really can't think of another car that I would replace it with tbh, and then I would not know what might need doing on the new car anyway. At least I know what's what with mine.

I was going to do my fogs yellow this week as well, that will have to wait for now! :no:

Likely to be some debris knocking about the pipework I'd imagine. Bad luck.

Did all the pipework get removed and cleaned when the turbo went on? Plus the intercooler/SMIC removed and flushed out?

It's possible that something as innocent as a small bit of paper can chip a turbo blade, as an example - such is the speed they rotate at.

All the pipework got taken off and cleaned as far as I'm aware, but this was 2 years ago now. Funnily enough I did find a very small piece of metal in the intake pipe about a year ago, and took the pipe off and removed it. I did check for more but didn't find anything. Maybe the damage was done a long time ago, and only now has the turbo made some strange noises....?

I fitted a Forge FMIC last month with new pipes so the SMIC has now gone.

One thing is for sure, a new airbox lid, and intake pipe is on the list of things to be replaced with new ones!

Buy a new hybrid, then you'll have a years warranty and be covered

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is exactly the kind of cumulative damage you'd expect to see from inadequate air filtration, this is NOT caused by 'chunks' of metal.

Only you can know the truth as to how regularly and scrupulously you clean and oil your air filter and how dirty it is when you do so, but surely you must realise that a 'dodgy fitting' standard airbox lid isn't going to cause this amount of erosion. Please also bear in mind that your engine ate all this metal and exhausted it, big chunks would have gone right through and smashed the exhaust turbine causing a loud bang and a lot of mess. No, your engine has burnt the very fine aluminium dust as the compressor wheel has eroded slowly over the last two years and you've been losing power and didn't even notice.

I am attacked on here constantly for my efforts to warn people about the useless aftermarket filter panels fitted to their VRS, but I haven't been making these efforts for no reason, I KNOW beyond all doubt that these filters are a serious problem. Back in the good ol' days of N/A tuning they were slightly useful but not any more I'm afraid.

the pd150 is the garrett though it was only the kkk's they wouldnt touch, dunno though

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is exactly the kind of cumulative damage you'd expect to see from inadequate air filtration, this is NOT caused by 'chunks' of metal.

Only you can know the truth as to how regularly and scrupulously you clean and oil your air filter and how dirty it is when you do so, but surely you must realise that a 'dodgy fitting' standard airbox lid isn't going to cause this amount of erosion. Please also bear in mind that your engine ate all this metal and exhausted it, big chunks would have gone right through and smashed the exhaust turbine causing a loud bang and a lot of mess. No, your engine has burnt the very fine aluminium dust as the compressor wheel has eroded slowly over the last two years and you've been losing power and didn't even notice.

I am attacked on here constantly for my efforts to warn people about the useless aftermarket filter panels fitted to their VRS, but I haven't been making these efforts for no reason, I KNOW beyond all doubt that these filters are a serious problem. Back in the good ol' days of N/A tuning they were slightly useful but not any more I'm afraid.

I totally understand what you are saying, but in this instance, the green cotton filter has only been on the car for 12k miles. In that time I have cleaned it twice (every 6k). It was cleaned and oiled with much care and attention.

I personally have not seen your warnings about the aftermarket air filters, but there are are plenty of people on here running green cotton filters that don't seem to have any issues? Unless they want to go and inspect their turbo's and report back on what they might find...

I will take your advice though, and when the car is fixed, a new airbox lid and a standard paper element will be going back in. I don't want to risk further damage to the new turbo. Personally I think the ill fitting airbox lid should have been replaced by me a long time ago, but I've only got myself to blame for not doing it.

the pd150 is the garrett though it was only the kkk's they wouldnt touch, dunno though

I will ring around tomorrow mate and ask. I remember reading something about Honeywell issuing a bulletin about not repairing VNT turbo's though, and that they would not supply replacement parts for these turbo's.

I'm also not convinced about going hybrid yet, I've read quite a few issues with cut back blades etc, and false advertisement of components used in the hybrid conversions by a certain large company. So I may end up just plumping for another standard unit.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is exactly the kind of cumulative damage you'd expect to see from inadequate air filtration, this is NOT caused by 'chunks' of metal.

Only you can know the truth as to how regularly and scrupulously you clean and oil your air filter and how dirty it is when you do so, but surely you must realise that a 'dodgy fitting' standard airbox lid isn't going to cause this amount of erosion. Please also bear in mind that your engine ate all this metal and exhausted it, big chunks would have gone right through and smashed the exhaust turbine causing a loud bang and a lot of mess. No, your engine has burnt the very fine aluminium dust as the compressor wheel has eroded slowly over the last two years and you've been losing power and didn't even notice.

I am attacked on here constantly for my efforts to warn people about the useless aftermarket filter panels fitted to their VRS, but I haven't been making these efforts for no reason, I KNOW beyond all doubt that these filters are a serious problem. Back in the good ol' days of N/A tuning they were slightly useful but not any more I'm afraid.

After reading this I might go back to the standard filter then - I know a few people are running good power figures with the standard filter so they cant be too bad?

Any air filter that claims to increase air flow, means the filter has to have larger holes in the element. Even tiny particles hitting a turbo wheel that's spinning at 100+K RPM will feather the edge of the turbo blades. You then get stress fractures in the blades, and they start to break up. OEM or Mahle filter is ideal. £10 every 10,000 miles (the 40K interval is a joke) and your turbo will thank you, by not going boom.

Increased airflow in an older normally aspirated carb engine is fine. In a MAF controlled forced induction engine they are a very bad idea.

Lesson learned the hard way I guess :( hopefully others will see this and change back to the standard filter. I still feel that my dodgy airbox was partly to blame, surely the filter on its own in 12k miles wouldn't have caused that much damage?

Lesson learned the hard way I guess :( hopefully others will see this and change back to the standard filter. I still feel that my dodgy airbox was partly to blame, surely the filter on its own in 12k miles wouldn't have caused that much damage?

You would be surprised. There's a promo video on You Tube that shows an aftermarket filter, and how much more air it passes than an OEM filter. Basically, two plastic tubes and a ping pong ball in each. After market filter let 70% more air through. Boy racers would be jumping up and down and getting their wallets ready. Engineers would be cringing in horror.

These things do have their uses, but with turbo cars, only if you are with a race team, that will rebuild the engine after a few thousand miles.

I would also think they effect fuel consumption. If you get more air at lower speeds, the cars ECU must add more fuel to match the MAF reading. More fuel at lower revs = smoke, = higher EGT = increased engine wear.

Cars have reached a point where if you start straying away from OEM parts, you risk upsetting what is a finely defined specification, made by hundreds of clever blokes in white coats and twenty pens in the top pocket.

The VRS was built to a price, and things like the turbo run pretty close to the edge as it is. I think you have been unlucky, but we all learn from our mistakes.

I think you have some very valid points there. Never had an issue with running cone filters on old naturally aspirated engines, but as you said for modern forced induction engines, I can now see why they have potential to cause some serious issues.

I am now awaiting a report back on what can be done with my turbo, if it's repairable (not too sure having read the statements from Garrett regarding replacement parts), depending on cost I might have it hybridised after speaking to Ben at Shark this morning.

Replied to your PM mate. Hope it helps, give me a shout if you have any more questions and I'll try to help.

I recognise that garage! LOL

I see they've got some kind of "endoscope tool" for shoving up pipework etc. Nice!

Had no filtration issues with my BMC box (yet) but it seems to be efficient at what it does and I do clean the filter element a lot.

Alex hasn't been pushing you to go GTB2260vk has he?

OOOOOOOOOOOOO whats a GTB2260VK??? is it like that turbo that some guy fitted to his Chaser in a magazine, the turbo was off a 3000bhp boat engine

and was so big you could fit your fist in it???

I recognise that garage! LOL

I see they've got some kind of "endoscope tool" for shoving up pipework etc. Nice!

Had no filtration issues with my BMC box (yet) but it seems to be efficient at what it does and I do clean the filter element a lot.

Alex hasn't been pushing you to go GTB2260vk has he?

I would absolutely love to ring up Darkside and buy their kit right now, but I just can't afford that! Alex didn't mention it, but then I wasn't in a great mood when he showed me those pictures yesterday!

I have left it with him for now and the turbo specialist that he uses, and will decide if to just hybrid the one I have if it can be done.

He's a hero though for fitting me in so quickly and letting me leave my car there, he said its in the special long term corner, hinting at a certain silver fabia that may have spent some time there!!

bad luck :(

Think I remember Techie mentioing it along time ago they he thought the Green panel filter never fitted 100%. Could be possible somthing has sliped past?

Pipercross let **** into my turbo. use a standard filter.

After reading this I might go back to the standard filter then - I know a few people are running good power figures with the standard filter so they cant be too bad?

Standard filter on a gtb2260vk here.......darkside will not warranty the turbos unless you're running standard filter! They showed me some pictures of vnt17's ran with k&n's.....enough to put me off my tea!