Went to get a renewal quote for Comprehensive Motor insurance which ends 7th March this year.I have been with a well-known (and heavily advertised, at least in London) on-line motor insurance provider for the last 3 years.

Details as follows:-

Skoda Fabia saloon 1.4, Age 57, 3 years no-claims discount to date, annual mileage 7,000.

Logged-in to my on-line account and selected the quotation button for motor insurance. In the quotation window that came up, I selected occupation status as Retired to reflect my leaving employment as of 31st January under Ministry Of Defence Voluntary Early Release Scheme (Not strictly early retirement, but they didn't have a category for semi-retired). Pushed the "Give me a quote button":-

Premium comes back £1,100 + increase in excess by £50.

Me, a little surprised and shocked, as this is three times last years premium.

So I logged-off, and then re-signed on and sort a second quote, this time with occupation status set to unemployed . . Well, you never know. Response came back "QUOTATION DECLINED".

So popped on the web to see what the story is and discovered that there is some substance for thinking that discrimination is occuring and not only against the retired, but against the unemployed - the main "Justification" for this seems to be that these groups will travel more than employed people ? Euh ?

So got onto their telephone contact number for policy enquiries (Well-hidden) and asked the question.

ME:Why the quoted premium was so much higher than last year ?

THEM: You've obtained a quote for a new customer.

ME: Euh ? I logged-on to my account and pushed the "Give me a quote for car insurance", how could that be not personal to me ?

THEM:Well some people have multiple policies and the system thought you were taking out a new policy. You'll have to wait for your automatic renewal quote to be issued by the system as an E-mail to you.Renewal quotes aren't issued more than 25 days before the renewal date. So expect something by the end of this week/early next.

ME: Is there another button in the account display which will enable me to obtain a fully personalised quotation now ?

THEM: You will have to wait until the end of the week. This restriction is in the policy conditions(Nice bit of restraint of competition).

ME: Shouldn't it be front and centre on the quotation page ?

THEM:No answer.

ME: Will this quotation be reduced/ at the level of last years ? You appreciate that my mileage next year will actually halve as I won't be commuting to work by car (3,500 per year less) and that I am retired now.

THEM: We can't give an indication. You have to wait.

ME: Surely, with this scale of difference you, acting as honest broker, you would offer a broad indication ?

THEM: No.The system will prepare a quote based on your current details.

ME:That will produce a incorrect quote as my annual mileage is set in last year's policy to 7,000 and my occupation status is set to Civil Servant.

THEM: You'll have to change them.

ME: Can you change them for me ? Yes, but it will cost £30 per item.

ME:Whattttt ?

THEM: You can change it on-line yourself.

At that point I could see I wasn't going to get any further.

And of course, if I do change them now and the policy is subject to a premium increase because of my occupation status change, then they'll be asking for a premium supplement for the few days remaining on the current policy.

So, I'll have to wait until they decide that they are going to provide me with a quote.

As to the b*llsh*t about the system thought you were taking out another policy . . . we shall see.

I always find that the well worn sales phrase "They couldn't sell electric fires to f*cking eskimos" comes to mind in these circumstances.

This country nowadays and the barriers it places on ordinary people to do just ordinary things is getting more and more like an Eastern European state run by MOSSAD for the benefit of marketing men and city financiers. You'd have never had got this discriminatory crap in commercial transactions 30-40 years ago - and IMHO its all because the powers that be have decided to divide up the various markets into smaller and smaller chunks (So that they can profit maximise) and this has the effect of severely limiting the social risk sharing that used to occur for the "Disadvantaged" and slants it in favour of a cross subsidy from the "Outside work" to those in work.

- I had an "Exit" interview for my previous employment last month, but nobody gave me the "Entrance" interview to second class citizenship - a gross procedural and governance oversight.Is there a special course I have to go on ?

If the renewal quote remains unchanged, then I'll probably ditch the car and start doing the holidays on the TGV.

Just the sort of thing you want to do to further blight economic recovery, in'nt, commercially discriminate against the baby boom retirees who have the spending power to revive the economy.

Meanwhile, I've only used the car once, for a 2 -hour shopping trip, in the last fortnight.

F*ckw*ts and twisters (A new title for a reprise of the Beach Boys "Heroes and villians" ?)

Postscript

I suspect the game that is being played has two fold objectives and is unified across the industry. Firstly, they see a good excuse for charging more to the current generation of retired people (which is probably why I got an unsolicited quote last week from Saga for £500 comprehensive.) and secondly insurers are all playing the undercut game. So Dog and Bone cover give me an outrageous quote for retirement, knowing full well that I'll immediately interrogate Compare the Meerkat or similar for a quote that will undercut this outrageous one(Not difficult). Once they've got other insurers to nail their trousers to the mast in terms of alternative quotes, they then come back with a final just-in-time undercutting offer which is probably above last years premium (Even though the customer has acquired more NCB during the last year). Most consumer's wipe the fop of their collective brows and accept the final undercut and anybody that doesn't is given the round around and marginalised by the cartel and probably ends up paying more. How financial markets work.

Nick

Edited 8 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

Its all a part of the insurance game that you have to play. Just go and get another quote around a month before yours is due for renewal. Phone your current ones up and tell them in no uncertain terms about your new (cheaper) quote, either they price match or they lose your business.

But its no better than haggling with a selection of gentlemen from the middle East bazzars - in fact worse, 'cause you never know or get to the "No margin, no contract" point as far as the supplier is concerned. There's too much going on in the way of unofficial carteling and market understandings. So how's this supposed to improve consumer VFM.

In the same way as how can supermarket consumers tell whether they are getting a good deal when they don't know how much the supermarket paid the farmer.Or railways or banks. Same applies.

The interests behind suppliers are far more powerful and organised than any individual consumer in manipulating output prices. So in those circumstances a comparison of output prices is somewhat meaningless gesture to make consumers feel good that they have got the "Best deal".

It all just irritating, timewasting life overhead.

Nick

Edited 8 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

It's all a con and I'm seeing it more now with my brother. His Felicia cost £1500 last year to insure which is probably 1500x the value of the car. Here are just some of the quotes we've had for cars he's thinking of getting. He does 8k a year and has 2 years NCB

Suzuki Swift Sport (120ish bhp) - £1500

Twingo Sport 133

Mazda 3 2.0 - £1700

Clio 182 £2200

VW Scirocco 1.4tsi - £1600 2.0t - £2300

Then we started getting silly

Nissan GTR £6700

Then the big surprise

My Fabia vRS Estate 180bhp - £800!

It's all over the place! I'm sure they just roll a dice and that's your price. Disgusting and someone needs to sort it out

Ignoring my own good advice I just visited some of the comparison sites for car insurance:-

Go compere,

which has no provision in the personal details for the fact that I am retired (You got to be in a job - so I was still in my old job) quoted its best price as the RAC at £373with a £350 excess (£250 of which is voluntary)and Dog and Bone cover at over £1,000

Compare the Meerkat

Which does allow me to say I'm retired and wants £311 for the same RAC policy and an excess of £350 and shows Dog and Bone cover @ over £1,000.

The input details for both quotes included the following:-

1.Accident five years ago. My fault. £1,090 cost.

2.Windscreen replacement five years ago.Act of God. No Cost.

3.SP 30 (speeding) endorsement on licence five years ago. Now spent.

If that isn't orchestrated and determined by something other than straight economics, I'm a Mercozy. Its obviously RACs turn with the low value premiums this year and Dog and Bone cover have started to target the lucrative newly- arrived in suburbia from inner city market. Bless.

Having insured a car since 1978, I can say, hand on halfpenny, that you never used to get this sort of variation in pricing prior to the emergence of the comparison sites.

Its going to mean that I've got to change insurer and fill out all that paperwork again. How wasteful can you get ?

The sooner they abolish all this crap and stick an insurance charge on the price of petrol the better.

Postscript

Just received the E-mail from Dog and Bone cover offering renewal @ £560 approx. Last years renewal was £379 for Comprehensive. A 47% increase. And bearing in mind that last years premium was a 20% increase on the year before. That's 67% in two years.

Whilst my personal circumstances have changed slightly, I feel that, net, they should have changed in my favour.

i.e. the the SP30 endorsement which applied for 4 years as far as HMG were concerned and which was in effect at last years renewal date has now lapsed - though i note that the insurers require notice of such an endorsement for up to five years after - legal ?

Also Dog and Bone cover provided me with an E-mail (At my request)which confirmed that they weren't concerned with my heart condition that developed in April last year (and which is gradually curing itself now)unless the DVLA were. DVLA website places no restrictions on driving private vehicles (Though they do on commercial)other than that occurring for the initial two weeks after the heart episode. And I got a GP letter last year before I went on my hols to say I was fit to drive. Obviously, I'm a year on from that now, without further significant incident.

So why the huge increase ? Is it based on any really assessed change in input factors or is it my turn to keep marketeers in jobs again ?

Me think that whiteman speak with forked-tongue, 'cause when I went to apply for travel insurance in October '11, price went up from £20 per occasion to £100 - I suspect this occurred as a result of having to disclose my Heart attack in April.

So next task is get on the blower and ask whether they can match RAC's quote.

Nick

Nick

Edited 14 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

See above

Right. It gets worse.

64% increase, with the personal details corrected:-

I just come off the phone from Dog and Bone cover and they advise that the massive increase in the cost of a comprehensive policy (47%)is not due to any factors personal to me but due to the general increase in costs they have experience. Somebody's been placing business with the wrong type of client again !(This time, not the black man sitting on the steps of his tumbledown shack in Southern Alabama) or possibly all those stupid b*ggers who we all marvelled at last year on You Tube who took their cars on the road during the icy weather just to "Go down to the shops" and crashed into everything in sight.

I asked them to update my personal details so as to reflect my current circumstances i.e. semi-retired, Social, domestic and pleasure use (Excluding commuting) and annual mileage reduced to 4,000 miles and that actually drove the quote up to £615(64% increase) - only slightly less than my estimated petrol costs (@38 MPG urban)for the next year (Roll on leccy powered cars !)

I then asked them to give the best quote and they came with £585 (57% increase).

So, no comparison. I'm off to the RAC, all other things remaining equal. Shame, because having your policy docs on-line is very convenient. This might also have other advantages 'cause they are offering the basic breakdown service @ £38 (If you take out insurance with them, whilst the AA quote for the coming year came in @ £71

But before doing so, I just wanted to ask whether anyone has experience of insuring with RAC and, if so, what are they like ?

Nick

Edited 12 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

Right. It gets worse.

64% increase, with the personal details corrected:-

I just come off the phone from Dog and Bone cover and they advise that the massive increase in the cost of a comprehensive policy (47%)is not due to any factors personal to me but due to the general increase in costs they have experience. Somebody's been placing business with the wrong type of client again !(This time, not the black man sitting on the steps of his tumbledown shack in Southern Alabama) or possibly all those stupid b*ggers who we all marvelled at last year on You Tube who took their cars on the road during the icy weather just to "Go down to the shops" and crashed into everything in sight.

I asked them to update my personal details so as to reflect my current circumstances i.e. semi-retired, Social, domestic and pleasure use (Excluding commuting) and annual mileage reduced to 4,000 miles and that actually drove the quote up to £615(64% increase) - only slightly less than my estimated petrol costs (@38 MPG urban)for the next year (Roll on leccy powered cars !)

I then asked them to give the best quote and they came with £585 (57% increase).

So, no comparison. I'm off to the RAC, all other things remaining equal. Shame, because having your policy docs on-line is very convenient. This might also have other advantages 'cause they are offering the basic breakdown service @ £38 (If you take out insurance with them, whilst the AA quote for the coming year came in @ £71

But before doing so, I just wanted to ask whether anyone has experience of insuring with RAC and, if so, what are they like ?

Nick

Give AVIVA a go. Simple online quote and next to no prejudice for being unemployed.

Finally got it arranged with a broker for £356 inclusive of RAC Roadside Assistance, uninsured costs legal protection, protected NCB and a third off the excess.

If I had left off all the bells and whistles probably could have got it down to the £300 mark.

I'm content for the time being having got a small saving on last year £78 (£17 saved on policy premium and avoidance of renewal of breakdown cover with the AA @£61) and increased cover.

Definitely seem as if Dog and Bone cover don't like retirees or unemployed people.

Changing tack slightly, I see that Dave has invited the insurance industry heads for a session at number 10 to discuss "Compensation culture". After my experience this week, I would say that the meeting is unnecessary. I think that Dave can be assured that the insurance industry, above all others, knows about compensation and how to get it !

Nick

Edited 14 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

These brokers (Be Wiser) I'm going through for the Aviva Comprehensive policy are really buggering me around.

They've taken the money off me on Monday already for one year's premium (£356) and now will not confirm that they are insuring me as of 8/03/12.

They sent me an initial e-mail with terms and conditions and requested that I supply them with written confirmation of my NCB. By e-mail, I accepted the Ts and Cs and provided them with a copy of my certificate of insurance with the premium and excess redacted . They accepted the NCB information I supplied and then asked why I had retired( This was already explained to the sales consultant)

In a return E-mail on Monday, I questioned why they needed to know why I had retired. No reply was forthcoming.

So I called them up today and spoke to the Customer Service Staff. They claimed they hadn't received my latest E-mail. After going away from the phone (Presumably for advice) I was told that they didn't need to know why I had retired, that my payment had been taken and that the policy would commence 8/03/12. I asked for e-mail confirmation of this.

Again, this wasn't forthcoming. So I sent them an E-mail summarising what happened to date, including a full explanation of why I had categorised myself as being retired (including supporting documenation from my former employer) and requesting written confirmation of the start of the policy. To date this hasn't been responded to.

Just after I sent this I got an e-mail response to my earlier E-Mail from a second sales consultant saying that their original request for information was incorrectly stated and that all I needed to do was confirm that I was retired. This I did in an e-mail by return and included a copy of the summary e-mail I had sent earlier. Again,to date I haven't had a response.

So, I phoned them up again and asked for the 2nd sales consultant and was told that she was in a meeting. I requested that someone advise me whether they wanted the business or not and was told that the 2nd sales consultant phone back today to advise me one way or the other whether they were going to insure me. So far nothing heard.

So far, I am really not impressed. It appears that I'm getting the run around for some reason and nobody will come clean as to why.

On the treatment I've got so far I wouldn't recommend this broker.

Also this morning, I received documentation through the post confirming the insurance and including a Certificate of Motor Insurance covering the period 8/03/2012 to 7/03/2012 but stating in the covering letter that I wouldn't get the Full Annual Certificate Of Insurance until I'd provided details of my NCB (Done already as above).

If the certificate I have received today is the full certificate, why are they still asking questions ?

And they wonder why the economy is shrinking !

Nick

Edited 15 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

Oh No.

Just discovered this:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262732-Stitched-Up-Like-A-Kipper-Be-Wiser-Insurance-NOW-RESOLVED-BY-COMPANY

An absolute littany of serial business sharp practice bordering on deception and fraud ?

And they came up as the no 2 entry when I did a search on the Compare the Market website.

This is exactly what they are doing to me.

They've charged my credit card the full annual premium, issued me with a Certificate of Motor Insurance and then keep on coming back to me with questions on my NCB and occupation status. I've answered two sets of questions then they came back in the post this morning with another set of quite unreasonable demands.

In the end I contacted the Regulator, the Financial Services Authority, and spoke to their Insurance help desk guy at length. He enabled me to find the company details on their registration database and indentify the company officers who were registered with FSA. It appears that there was a predecessor company before Be wiser called A Quote Insurance services who wound up business in 2007, but that a large number of the names just transferred across to Be Wiser.Here's the Company's House entry:-

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e4d1290ac0ea3e86c2b2642e359d14fc/compdetails

Here's a link to their FSA register entry:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmBasicDetails.do?sid=184733

And here's a link to the list of company officers that are listed with the FSA:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmIndivSearch.do?sid=184733

This evening I e-mailed them back and copied it to the company officer registered with the FSA as performing the insurance mediation role:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmContact.do?sid=184733

I got a reply almost immediately saying the matter had been passed down to a Assistant Director for resolution.

Why isn't the FSA doing something about these guys. Yet they haven't got a stain on their disciplinary record on the FSA web site:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmDiscHistory.do?sid=184733

Nick

Edited 16 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

This thread continues on the "Be Wiser Insurance" post.

Nick