The EU's thoughts on modified cars

[gac]

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/#more-901

ACE has always been of the opinion that modifying of vehicles would eventually end by the ability to do so being slowly eroded by small pieces of legislation rather than one single regulation. We have unfortunately now been proved correct with a single item before the EC parliament that will prevent any modifying and will, currently, render already modified cars illegal. Without a large effort over the next 6 weeks this ’proposal’ will pass into law very shortly afterwards.

Not a fun paragraph to read first thing on a Wednesday morning...

[D15VRS]

Really??? All modified cars will be illegal, cant see it to be honest.

[AlphaPapa]

Wouldn't that make customised mobility vehicles, kit cars etc also illegal?

[Llanigraham]

This has been mentioned on several other Forums, and the biggest question is to define "standard" in this suggestion. If taken literally then even fitting a different ICE unit would make the vehicle "illegal". It would also "kill" rallying and production motorsport across Europe, as even a roll cage would be against the regulations.

Consensus is that the story is scaremongering.

[gac]

Honestly, I dunno. I started getting sidetracked and reading through the various definitions of a vehicle's "identity" (i.e. at what point it stops becoming the original car in a new shell and becomes a new vehicle in its own right) and pretty much lost the will to live due to the endless quoting of regulations.

I agree, I can't see all modified cars suddenly becoming illegal, there are probably far too many (quite aside from the UK's big performance modifying market, if you take the law strictly then even using pattern parts in certain areas of the vehicle such as brakes or suspension could constitute a modified car). But as with other VOSA/DfT rules, if it comes in then it's easy to put a clause in the test saying "Any vehicle first used on the road after 1/1/2013 must not be modified in any way" and slowly phase them out over time.

[MartynVRS]

There's no way this would go through. Definitely (hopefully) scaremongering

[Moist Von Lipwig]

Scaremongering is my view as well, but unfortunately it is a sign of things to come. There is similar legislation for bikes at a far more advanced stage, probably the test forit all as it is a much smaller group to target and anything they do can be called a safety measure for a high risk group!!

I can see it coming in at somepoint but probably not the 6 weeks the article is quoting, more likely 6 years.

[Llanigraham]

"Any vehicle first used on the road after 1/1/2013 must not be modified in any way"

But can you define modified?

Taken logically that would mean any classic car, for example a SkodaMB/Morris Minor/Series Land Rover, would be illegal because there are few or no manufacturers parts still made, and if you read the article it seems to imply that "pattern" parts would be illegal. That is why I, and others, think that this is just scaremongering.

[gac]

Well no, the way I read it, it would be 6 weeks for it to become "law". At which point after that it has to be actually implemented in the test, IIRC the 2012 MOT test changes are based on EU amendments from 2009/2010, so 2-3 years seems possible.

[Jonneh]

Imagine the MASSIVE effect it would have on the businesses who pride themselves on tuning, aftermarket parts and services etc.

Would be like shutting their businesses down. I don't really see how it can happen.

[Ootohere]

pre EDIT,

re

that 'parts' thing in the last post.

THey Banned Selling , & then fitting Bull Bars, to certain age of vehicles.

Off Road (4x4) Tyres, importation is being hit right now with the new legislation. (Dirty Rubber)

Approved Tow Bars only, not home maders and 'Small Industry Specials, lots of things.

One small business/Industry, or back street business's loss, is a Multi Nationals win.

Politicians have shares and investment in Multi National Companies, not with 4 men in an Industrial Unit,

I am surprised that you are surprised & think it can not happen.

In some states in the USA, the vehicle is plugged in and the ECU read.

In France the seller needs to have the Test & Certificate before they sell a vehicle & Modifications are checked & approved or not.

Scandinavian Countries & Some of Europe have been wanting the UK more regulated for years.

THis new MOT we got in January did not go as far as Europe wanted.

Tyre Noise regulations are coming in, Tyre Marking.

They want the Emissions & Cats fitted as standard & their removal tightened up etc.

It all slipped in the changes to the test, like the Aftermarket Headlights & the testing of, got all mixed up.

The move is from the Euro 6 engine introduction that a Vehicles Factory Spec will be on the ECU.

(It is now anyway)

The Car will be Plugged in and the power, emmissions, weight etc can be checked.

Factory spec or factory options will show, & show if not performing to Spec.

The Pilot Schemes where carried out on Motor Bikes etc.

Non Standard Exhausts, Non Standard Brakes etc.

The test table was on the WEb Cam & the tester was prompted to inspect parts and check for EU Approved.

(just like checking an Towbar now on vehicles, Approved, not Approved)

The intention was to come in with the first 4 year & 2 Year MOTS, That has not come to pass yet.

It is Easy to tie up with the MOT check is a Vehicle Modified, Taxation class, & is the vehicle Insured with Modifications Declared.

It is all just a small step.

Luckily this & other UK Governments can not organise a p155 up in a brewery.

Lords, Peers, MP's etc like their cars as well.

Why the MOT Exempt got changed really, to suit them. not the plebs like us. JMO.

george

[Dudeoli]

Quoting from the DfT document:-

The Commission proposes to introduce a definition for a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration. This may prevent most modifications to vehicles without further approval of the vehicle. (this will apply to many components and to all types of vehicle)

The way I read that is that once you make a modification, you have to get it checked and approved by a qualified inspector, which makes some sense. It might cost a bit more everytime you do some mods, but it will hopefully stop the Barry boys doing some really stupid things.

[KenONeill]

So, if my new Ying-Tong Chop-Suey comes with Woosung Dark Spin tyres as OEM, it would be illegal for me to upgrade them to something European?

[MartynVRS]

The way I read that is that once you make a modification, you have to get it checked and approved by a qualified inspector, which makes some sense. It might cost a bit more everytime you do some mods, but it will hopefully stop the Barry boys doing some really stupid things.

If it's this I don't have a problem provided the inspectors know what they are doing and keep up to date with new technologies and modifications.

[Ootohere]

Your tyres will need to meet the Spec, markings & Speed rating as they do now.

'Noise' & recycleabilty is becoming their big deal.

Tee fact that ECO tyres last no time & are cr4p at performing is never a worry to them.

China, America and exports imports were a problem.

Now the World apart from China is skint, there will be less of a problem.

Roll on in the 'Great Wall' vehicles.

China will just buy out Michelin & the like when ever they want.

Why would they want to make dirty tyres anymore when they can do that in Dundee.

george

[VladSoilerOfCarpets]

There are far too many variables in this to keep it tied down. Theoretically, my Xenons are a modification because I changed the bulbs from OEM 4600K Osrams to 6000K Philips...

Although my seats are from a car of the same chassis and are still black leather, they're a modification... but they have all the airbags the old ones did...

Hmph.

[MartynVRS]

I've put mudflaps on, a boot cover and seat cover too. All are modifications. I haven't yet but if a bulb goes or a wiper needs replacing there's a good chance it won't be an exact replaacement

[gac]

Depends, I'm reading it as only modifications for things that are already tested on the MOT test and specified in type approval. For example your seats should be fine, as long as changing the seats doesn't cause any airbag warning (which is a failure in its own right). Changing your stereo would be fine. Changing your suspension or brakes, not so fine, as they must conform to what the vehicle had for its type approval.

[VladSoilerOfCarpets]

Surely if it's a higher spec that has been properly fitted, then that's fine..? Which is the whole point of the MOT...

[softscoop]

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't move to something along the lines of Germany where modifications have to be TUV (or whatever the UK equivalent would be) approved for the car to pass its MoT.

That way you can still modify the car, but only with parts that have approval.

[gac]

Surely if it's a higher spec that has been properly fitted, then that's fine..? Which is the whole point of the MOT...

Lets take fitting higher-spec Brembo 323s from a Leon Cupra R on my Fabia. They're 5x100 discs, so they'll attach fine and be safe. But then what about the different brake lines, they're probably not available off the shelf? And then how about the brake master cylinder, surely it's going to have to do much more work to operate a set of relatively massive 4 pot calipers when compared to the single pot 288s that come on the vRS as standard? Then there's the balance of the car, having front 4-pot brakes with rear brakes nearly 10cm smaller could cause instability under braking? Similarly with suspension modifications, higher spec isn't always better. I was driving up the A1 at the weekend and hit a couple of nasty dips in just the right succession that it practically felt like the car had left the floor, possibly related to the ride height and firmness of my car. I have a rear ARB, could promote "dangerous oversteer". And so on.

I can see what you're saying, and as someone who drives a modified car (engine, gearbox, braking, suspension mods so most of the core areas have something done to them) I don't want it to happen, but it could if dictated by Europe. What Sam suggests is a sensible compromise, as long as it's possible to retrospectively approve parts. For example my AP coilovers aren't currently approved by any UK body, but maybe the fact they're TUV approved could be used as a substitute, or maybe some UK body could approve a current set of APs meaning that even though my current ones aren't marked, they would be on the system as approved.

[softscoop]

I can see what you're saying, and as someone who drives a modified car (engine, gearbox, braking, suspension mods so most of the core areas have something done to them) I don't want it to happen, but it could if dictated by Europe. What Sam suggests is a sensible compromise, as long as it's possible to retrospectively approve parts. For example my AP coilovers aren't currently approved by any UK body, but maybe the fact they're TUV approved could be used as a substitute, or maybe some UK body could approve a current set of APs meaning that even though my current ones aren't marked, they would be on the system as approved.

Yes the problem being, how far back do you go?

Some old cars may have modifications (lowered springs say) fitted from years ago that nobody now knows anything about what they are and where they came from.

This is something that would be an absolute massive upheaval and would require a lot of work on the governments part in setting up a body to approve new parts from the start - never mind getting older parts type approved.

The only way I can see them doing it would be to say any cars manufactured after the legislation has come in has to have approved parts - otherwise it's going to be impossible.

[Llanigraham]

I suspect that we are all speculating at present, but as has been said, look at what is/isn't allowed in europe. Germany, if it isn't TUV approved you can't fit it. In Belgium they are even more strict on mechanical parts, which is why most of their modding scene sems to be bodywork and ICE only.

We shall see, and I suspect that Softscoop's last comment is correctas making it retrospective would be almost impossible. I doubt there are many early 1950's Series Land Rovers with all original parts!

[gac]

That's true. Maybe for older parts the "if it's good enough for TUV, then it's good enough for us" approach would be the only thing they could do, while legislating the new stuff as you say. Even then I guess unless you drive a car which has a German market, there's no guarantee that your parts will be TUV approved either. It's a sensible solution but still a bit of a nightmare, not to mention how much it'll cost in government inefficiencies...

[softscoop]

I think the only real way that would be sensible (although this is the government we're talking about) would be to say any vehicle that's registered before the date of the legislation - can have anything fitted - and as long as it passes the MoT - it doesn't have to be type approved parts.

Any vehicle registered after - any parts that are fitted would need the UK equivalent of TUV approval, otherwise it won't pass the MoT

As time goes by, more and more vehicles can only have approved parts.

It's the same with any new legislation like seatbelts etc. when they came in.