Has the vRS been expensive for Skoda on warranty claims?

[vxh26]

According to Skoda's board member for technical development (Dr Frank Welsch) the Fabia sRS is being dropped because of poor sales.

A lot of people think the Fabia vRS is a great car, but we cannot work on cars that everyone likes but only a few people buy.  People don't only like the Fabia vRS's 178bhp engine - they also like the sporty look: a sporty interior and sporty exterior. We have had good success with our Monte Carlo Fabias. They have a special, elegant and sporty look.

 

Reading around this forum it appears that the vRS has significant problems with oil consumption.  Further it seems to be very popular with people who want a "Hot Hatch" and in some cases to use it for track days.  There appears to be a belief that cars no longer need to be run-in and should in fact be thrashed the moment they are collected from the showroom (perhaps justified, I don't know).

 

In order to compete with other manufacturers, Skoda have been offering 3 years warranty and free servicing (they now seem to have dropped the latter).  This, along with the rise in popularity of Personal Contract Purchase (PCP) deals has perhaps led to an attitude of short-termism in new car ownership?

 

I do wonder whether all of this has meant that there has been an abnormally high level of warranty claims and service costs on the vRS?  Allied with alleged poor sales of the vRS and the enormous demand for the larger and higher ticket price Octavia, this would certainly explain a decision to drop the vRS.  I just hope that Skoda decide to replace it with a Fabia Estate using a less highly tuned 1.4 TSI and the DSG gearbox - that would be a most appealing car.

[BossFox]

A forum will always paint a worse picture as you tend to hear about all the failures rather than the people with no problems.

 

But having said that, there was claerly an issue with a number of cars so it has cost Skoda.

Thing is, they sold far more Monte Carlos than VRS.

So from a business perspective a lower powered car that's less complicated, easier to insure and just has sporty styling makes more sense if it sells better.

 

Personally I don't think they'll drop the Fabia VRS alltogether.

Like when the mk2 came out, it came back after 2 years.

 

I expect to see Fabia mk3 production start and a Fabia VRS (in petrol or diesel form) come along after a year or two...

But it needs to be a fun car, not a super quick car.  Because Skoda's brand image is more sensible than sporty. (IMO)

[Sparkly]

I expect to see Fabia mk3 production start and a Fabia VRS (in petrol or diesel form) come along after a year or two...

 

 

+1, from the start I've been saying that there will be a turnaround on this stance by Skoda.

[Ootohere]

We keep hearing about Dropping the vRS. The vRS is not Discontinued, other than all mk2 Fabias are being discontined.

the orders and vRS Models supplied doubled in 2013 over 2012.

100 cars a Quarter First Registered 2012,  and 200 a quarter in 2013.

 

Fabia MK2's outsell all other Skoda Models in the UK.

That is not vRS or Monte Carlos that so far have only sold about twice as well as the vRS.

It is the range of Other non Sporty models that are pretty good value and come in a wide choice.

 

The name vRS is not to continue when the Mk3 Fabia comes out.

Or that is what the CEO is quoted as having said.

The cars will have Euro 6 compliant Emission Engines.

 

The 1.4TSI CAVE & CTHE are in 4 VAG cars.

The vRS has now sold over 2,600 in the UK June 2010 untill January 2013

 

The other 3,  SEAT Ibiza, VW Polo & Audi A1 185ps have sold slightly more combined from 2009 with the SEAT and 2011 with the Polo and A1

 

So around 5,500 Twinchargers in the UK.

Maybe 20 % have Faulty Engines through poor Manufacturing and Design and Quality Control of the Engines.

At between £2,000-£5,500 a Time to sort out the Warranty claims, it must be getting expensive for VAG.

 

Servicing of vRS is not Expensive, it is no more Expensive than any other Fabia,

2 Minor Services and one Major Inspection Service, the Same Fully Synthetic Oil, Filters are no more Expensive.

So Service Packages have not cost the provider more than the Customer paid for the Package, with Cash Money 

or as part of the Purchase of the car originally.

 

george

[BossFox]

"The vRS has now sold over 2,600 in the UK June 2010 untill January 2013"

 

Just for a comparison, the Monte Carlo has been out for a year less but has already sold more than 6,000 in the UK.

And the UK is traditionally a stronghold of VRS sales.

Other countries tend to sell less VRS and more Montes. (on a percentage basis)

 

So it's easy to see why a lower powered (easier to insure for younger drivers) sporty version makes a lot more sense to Skoda as a vehicle maker.

[grapo]

As George says of course it has been expensive. The amount of replacements on this forum alone will have been expensive.

I see things slightly differently. Yes forums do highlight the worst, however of a significant number of people on this forum alone have had problems, then the number is likely to be much much higher if you add other countries and people who are on other forums / not on forums into the mix.

Some people seem to think only people on this forum are having problems.

[Ootohere]

Bossfox,

We know the Monte Carlo has sold OK. & so it should.

(over 11,000 Fabia sold in the First 6 months of 2013 according to Skoda Figures)

 

We know the vRS story about Flappy Paddle, should be Diesel etc.( Linear !!!)

But the car is coming to the end of production and selling quite well now, so some like or want them.

Prices getting bumped up a bit just now, but still cheap compared to other 5 door cars with 180ps.

 

Monte Carlos are not selling as well in the UK as the CEO of Skoda made it sound, they had to introduce the value Tech Editions to get things moving again.

They offer the Manuals that people want in a choice of engine outputs and Petrol or Diesel.

Not so cheap for a Monte Carlo when you put some Spec on the non 'Tech Edition', but nice cars that people seem to like.

 

http://www.fleetdirectory.co.uk/news/skoda-reports-best-ever-half-year-sales

 

"Skoda will kill", not 'Have Killed'.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/skoda-fabia-vrs-is-no-more-skoda-suv-coming-2013-08-21

 

george

[BossFox]

Bossfox,

We know the Monte Carlo has sold OK. & so it should.

(over 11,000 Fabia sold in the First 6 months of 2013 according to Skoda Figures)

 

We know the vRS story about Flappy Paddle, should be Diesel etc.( Linear !!!)

But the car is coming to the end of production and selling quite well now, so some like or want them.

Prices getting bumped up a bit just now, but still cheap compared to other 5 door cars with 180ps.

 

Monte Carlos are not selling as well in the UK as the CEO of Skoda made it sound, they had to introduce the value Tech Editions to get things moving again.

They offer the Manuals that people want in a choice of engine outputs and Petrol or Diesel.

Not so cheap for a Monte Carlo when you put some Spec on the non 'Tech Edition', but nice cars that people seem to like.

 

http://www.fleetdirectory.co.uk/news/skoda-reports-best-ever-half-year-sales

 

"Skoda will kill", not 'Have Killed'.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/skoda-fabia-vrs-is-no-more-skoda-suv-coming-2013-08-21

 

george

 

It was for general info, sales figures of VRS and sporty but cheaper versions.  Not just for your benefit George.  Other people use this section too.

Quoting sales figures for one model with no comparison to other models is pointless to me.

 

Never mentioned flappy paddles here.

Never mentioned should be diesel here.

Never mentioned linear here.

 

Keep calm and take a chill pill.   You don't have to wade in as usual and defend your car.

No-one criticised it here, it's honour is intact. :wonder:

 

I was showing the business case for keeping the VRS going compared to something like the Monte which (in my opinion) is closer to the core Skoda values of sensible.

More basic mechanicals and cheaper insurance.  Higher sales.

Fact is, the VRS is a slow seller by comparison to regular and Monte versions.  Even if you call Monte sales "OK".

 

Clearly the VRS has it's fans.

Never doubted it, even though you suggest I have.

You seem to take any negative comments about the car quite personally judging by your reactions.

 

But possibly sales of the VRS is not enough to make building a mechanically complicated version worthwhile to a large car maker like Skoda.  Hence their statement.

[Ootohere]

Its nothing to me if people do not like them, i just try to put forward the facts.

I am more scathing on the Twincharger failures than most

 

As to Complicated and Advanced Technology, VAG stride on building Cylinder Deactivation, ACT/COD, or will once UK customers get around to buying these possibly problem engines in any numbers.

 

VW have always put out cars and new Technology and then ignore Customers with on going Problems.

Over the decades since they stopped doing Air Cooled Engines that has been things like keeping H2O out of cars,

and keeping H2o or Oil in Engines.

 

Often it was just because of one or 2 cheap or poorly Manufactured Components,

then they fail to communicate with the buying public why there are problems.

Simple fixes turned into Epic Problems & expense for some owners, be it Timing Chains or Tensioners, or Water Pump Inpellers,

or just something really simple like Door Seals.

 

Many of us wait to hear from Skoda or VW, via the CEO, UK Brand Director or any Spokesperson what went wrong with the CAVE engines, which they had to revise, meaning there was then the CTHE engine fitted, and yet some of those then go on to have the same problem,

and why they carried on making it difficult for buyers of the Lemons to get Warranty Work done

and a Reliable and Serviceable car returned to them.

 

george

[XK140]

Reasons why the vRs has not sold better:

1.It looks poor/ crap/ uninspiring (pick your own adjective)....for a sporty car.Rather strange to me that the Monte body add ons that would have slightly improved its looks are not on the options list.

2.Whatever the merits or faults of the Dsg box,many potential buyers will have disregarded it because they would only consider a manual.

3.Some fans of the mk1 refuse to go for the mk2 because they wish to stay with a diesel engine.

4.For the last couple of years the car seems to have been pretty well ignored by the media,look at any hot hatch comparisons and it rarely gets a mention,they perceive newer rivals have overtaken it.

5.Handling,in standard form,is not up to coping with the power available,although it's debateable whether you would realise this on just a test drive,so perhaps not a direct downer on sales.

Despite the above I intend to keep mine a few years,it has its merits and it's perfectly acceptable to me as a day to day nippy runabout...also I don't believe in throwing money away by the early disposal of a car bought new that I still have nearly 4 years factory warranty on.

Edited 3 January, 2014 by XK140

[vxh26]

Its nothing to me if people do not like them, i just try to put forward the facts. <snip>

George, you clearly know your way around the Skoda Fabia better than most people and I ALWAYS read your posts with the utmost care. Sadly, perhaps because of your depth of knowledge, they don't always enlighten me much.  For example, you seem keen on using three letter acronyms without explaining them, frequently refer to earlier posts and threads and proffer cryptic comments such as "Flappy Paddle, should be Diesel etc. (Linear !!!)".  I am sure that these observations make complete sense to you and to the long-term readers of this forum but they don't really help someone who is genuinely interested in feedback on the Fabia as the basis for informed evaluation and appropriate questioning of car salesmen.

 

May I respectfully ask you to think of us mere neophytes when posting?  Please . . .

 

Many thanks for your posts regardless, they do seem informed

[Ootohere]

Well i actually apart from in this thread try never to refer to 'Flappy paddle' gearboxes,

that was a dig at Reviewers that do.

Diesel is reference to how many times it is said that thewy should have kept the vRS as a Diesel orvoffered a Diesel option.

 

I never consider or think of it as a Flappy Paddle box, i have driven some of those and ones with only button manual gear selection or the Paddles.

 

It is a Semi Automatic Gearbox and you can use the Gear stick and drive like it is a manual,

there is just no clutch peddle & if you want there are paddle gear shifters.

 

Linear was in reference to Bossfox that often mentions that he did not like how the vRS is Linear.

So sorry on that one.

 

Personally that is what i like about the vRS particularly,

floor the throttle and you know how it will go, it is a perfect car for performing when overtaking.

for a 1390 cc Automatic quite amazing really. Just a simple nippy car without many frills.

 

Flawed, in some ways to most, but i like cars that go round cambered corners and potholed roads without having to be lowered,

and the suspension can be modified quite cheaply if you do want to do that.

Skoda spent on the Engines and Gearboxes, sold the car cheap and never bothered with decent Brakes or very techonlgically advanced suspension.

Cheap to fix though apart from the Engine/Box.

[Sparkly]

Groundhog thread?

 

:yes:

[XK140]

Groundhog thread?

 

:yes:

Most of them are on here.

[vxh26]

Thanks for that George, my comment genuinely wasn't in any way meant to be a criticism of your posts just a heartfelt plea.

 

I had guessed at the meaning of "Flappy Paddles" and I would have to say that the DSG box certainly appeals to me.  I can live without a clutch although I accept  that there are occasions when a manual is more use than an auto, regardless of how clever the latter is.  I think I read in one of the recent threads that the DSG box isn't great when reversing into parking bays and suffers from a delay on take-off - not sure what this means?

 

I'm still not clear what you (or BossFox) mean by "Linear"?  I guess it is that the standard Fabia isn't as spectacular at cornering / on twisty roads as some might hope???

 

I have Googled and now know that ACT means Active Cylinder Technology but COD has got me 100% baffled.

 

Thanks for your patience

 

ps - I hadn't intended to derail my own thread - OOPS!

[Ootohere]

I have no Idea either on what he means by Linear. I think he might mean, seamless fast forward without a kick in the back.

He needs to explain himself, if thats what it is that he does not like.

because it seams to mean something different from how i have understood it in Power Delivery or scientific terms.

To me with vehicles, cars or bikes, Linear Power Delivery has been a good thing.

 

COD is what Audi call 'Cylinder on Demand',  VW and Audi Engines are the same, 'ACT' is just the same as 'COD'

So Audi A1 or A3 & it is called a TFSI COD,  and Polo Blue GT or Golf and it is TSI ACT,

 

just like when VW/Skoda/Seat get engines called TSI , Audi call it a TFSI

[XK140]

Thanks for that George, my comment genuinely wasn't in any way meant to be a criticism of your posts just a heartfelt plea.

 

I had guessed at the meaning of "Flappy Paddles" and I would have to say that the DSG box certainly appeals to me.  I can live without a clutch although I accept  that there are occasions when a manual is more use than an auto, regardless of how clever the latter is.  I think I read in one of the recent threads that the DSG box isn't great when reversing into parking bays and suffers from a delay on take-off - not sure what this means?

 

I'm still not clear what you (or BossFox) mean by "Linear"?  I guess it is that the standard Fabia isn't as spectacular at cornering / on twisty roads as some might hope???

 

I have Googled and now know that ACT means Active Cylinder Technology but COD has got me 100% baffled.

 

Thanks for your patience

 

ps - I hadn't intended to derail my own thread - OOPS!

George has his own style with plenty of facts and knowledge but I assume you are on here to help to decide whether to buy a vRS or not.

So my advice to you is firstly to DRIVE ONE...the dealer I used was very laid back and handed over the keys to their demonstrator and said I could take as long as I wanted on an unaccompanied test drive,this is what you want to see if the car is for you or not,make sure you like the way the dsg works under all circumstances.

Tbh if your current car is a Micra then a vRs should exceed all expectations...the only other basic advice is that,if going for a used one,make sure you get at least one year's comprehensive warranty to cover the chance of engine oil issues.

[Sparkly]

I'm guessing that it means the constant rate at which the vRS builds speed with smooth power delivery that neither has the PD130 style torque which is all delivered in an amusing lump nor is it limp until high revs where it begins to scream it's nuts off like a Vtec.  There is no discernible sweet spot in the rev range, mostly because it works well through all revs equally offering virtually no flat spot.
 
I for one can understand that for some people this makes the MKII vRS a fast, efficient and rapid little car but ultimately one with less character than others in how it goes about it's business and in many ways it is not as challenging an experience to get the most out of the engine as in other motors - you can take this as a pro or con depending on what you enjoy or even which day of the week it is.
 
I love my little car, most people who read my posts will know this.  If other's don't I have no issue with that either.
 

the only other basic advice is that,if going for a used one,make sure you get at least one year's comprehensive warranty to cover the chance of engine oil issues.

 
+1 I would add to this that you should look at the owner history for either suspiciously short ownership periods or multiple owners, mine for example is from one of the worst vintages (July 2010) yet had spent 30k miles with one owner after being a demonstrator, touch wood it's given me no problems

[Ootohere]

The thing about that is the Twincharger & DSG is performing like that if you just floor the throttle, and go up the gears..

Be that in D, or doing your own changes.

 

Not if you drop it a gear or 2.  You can get a Kick and Torque like with a Diesel.

There is different power delivery if you are at 4,000-5,000 rpm in 6th or 7th, and drop one gear or 2,

or likely 3 gears, and then it goes

back onto Supercharger & Turbo and accelerates. Then 3,500 and just turbo.

 

The engine and the box is what you want it to be, you can use the power delivery and torque in different ways and different drivers do.

I see that when in my own cars with other drivers driving, or in other peoples cars.

[vxh26]

As you say, I read this forum because I am interested in buying a car.  However, not necessarily a vRS.

 

The 1.4 TSI & the DSG seem like a really good combination but I am not a "Boy Racer" or even a Middle-aged or Geriatric Racer trying to regain a long lost youth.  My driving is a mixture of local run-around and long distance motorway runs to the North and to Devon (I have relatives and friends in both areas) - about 10k per year, so not a diesel.

 

I take your point about the importance of test drives - this will come soon, ideally with an extended test involving sleeping Policemen, the M25 and twisting country roads.  However, I am keen to know as much as possible about what to look out for so as to optimise the time available.  There is absolutely NO WAY I would buy a used vRS

 

I started this thread because I want if possible to understand why Skoda are dropping the vRS (if they are) and in particular with what they might replace it.

Edited 3 January, 2014 by vxh26

[Sparkly]

As you say, I read this forum because I am interested in buying a car.  However, not necessarily a vRS.

 

The 1.4 TSI & the DSG seem like a really good combination but I am not a "Boy Racer" or even a Middle-aged or Geriatric Racer trying to regain a long lost youth.  My driving is a mixture of local run-around and long distance motorway runs to the North and to Devon (I have relatives and friends in both areas) - about 10k per year, so not a diesel.

 

I take your point about the importance of test drives - this will come soon, ideally with an extended test involving sleeping Policemen, the M25 and twisting country roads.  However, I am  keen to know as much as possible about what to look out for so as to optimise the time available.  There is absolutely NO WAY I would buy a used vRS

 

I started this thread because I want if possible to understand what why Skoda are dropping the vRS (if they are) and in particular with what they might replace it.

 

I really enjoy the 1.4tsi engine and DSG but if you aren't that bothered about performance and it will do big long motorway tramps to Cornwall then it wouldn't be my first choice, if you are concerned about comfort over sleeping policemen, again look elsewhere, standard suspension will lollop and/or crash over them unless very careful.

 

Interesting that you would buy NEW vRS only, I personally would only ever buy used with a forensically researched history so I knew I wasn't getting a dud, rather than join the lottery of oil consumption.

 

For my money reading your last post I would seriously consider looking at other cars than the vRS, a 1.2tsi or even 1.6CRTDI Monte or Elegance might be a better bet if you want a Fabia, with the Elegance having more comfortable suspension.

 

 

The thing about that is the Twincharger & DSG is performing like that if you just floor the throttle, and go up the gears..

Be that in D, or doing your own changes.

Not if you drop it a gear or 2. You can get a Kick and Torque like with a Diesel.

There is different power delivery if you are at 4,000-5,000 rpm in 6th or 7th, and drop one gear or 2,

or likely 3 gears, and then it goes

back onto Supercharger & Turbo and accelerates. Then 3,500 and just turbo.

The engine and the box is what you want it to be, you can use the power delivery and torque in different ways and different drivers do.

I see that when in my own cars with other drivers driving, or in other peoples cars.

 

Bags of power, great kick up the ass if you drop a gear (or 2) no arguments. I never find my car wanting for torque day to day.

 

It is however different to the in gear pull in say a MkI vRS which has more flat spots across the revs and then a big wodge of power delivered all at once - was my point. I'd have my MkII everytime over a PD130 or a Civic Type R but I can see the point about the linear power delivery not entertaining some people, possibly those who have much faster cars to deliver their out an out speed thrills.

 

As for how cars are driven differently by different people, I have watched many videos now of Richard (Bossfox) utterly owning all manner of different performance cars on track in a red diesel Yeti, I fancy he could probably get the most out of a vRS if he wanted to, same for making his mind up on liking it or not. Generally though I also take your point that if baby'd the car feels a lot less of a motor than it really is.

[Ootohere]

VAG have i believe the S1 Audi coming out, so a Fast Small car for £25,000 - £30,000.

VW have some Sporty Polos planned i keep reading.

 

If they are going to take Skoda Rallying in a Mk3 Fabia as a R5 1.6 Turbo,

then surely Skoda will want some Warm Mk3's, why would you grandstand a car in Motorsport then the

Only Performance Models are ones with Stickers, Sporty Seats, Alloy Wheels  and Body kit..

Or will they use a Rapid body to go Rallying.

 

Who can tell what VAG will do with the small Skoda Hatches, but i doubt they will want a car again with Similar Performance that undercuts the Costly ones in the same size class from Audi and VW

 

I think many that like the size of a Fabia and good value will be happy with a Warm Hatch that is Reliable and Handles well,

a Choice of Manual and Auto in Diesel & Petrol would be nice.

[vrskeith]

According to Skoda's board member for technical development (Dr Frank Welsch) the Fabia sRS is being dropped because of poor sales.

 

Reading around this forum it appears that the vRS has significant problems with oil consumption.  Further it seems to be very popular with people who want a "Hot Hatch" and in some cases to use it for track days.  There appears to be a belief that cars no longer need to be run-in and should in fact be thrashed the moment they are collected from the showroom (perhaps justified, I don't know).

 

In order to compete with other manufacturers, Skoda have been offering 3 years warranty and free servicing (they now seem to have dropped the latter).  This, along with the rise in popularity of Personal Contract Purchase (PCP) deals has perhaps led to an attitude of short-termism in new car ownership?

 

I do wonder whether all of this has meant that there has been an abnormally high level of warranty claims and service costs on the vRS?  Allied with alleged poor sales of the vRS and the enormous demand for the larger and higher ticket price Octavia, this would certainly explain a decision to drop the vRS.  I just hope that Skoda decide to replace it with a Fabia Estate using a less highly tuned 1.4 TSI and the DSG gearbox - that would be a most appealing car.

YES!!!

[vrskeith]

Also extremely embarrassing for VAG after the fanfare arrival of the 1.4 TSI raved about engine and journalist prize winning acclaimed engine.

Notice how not one Auto mag has picked up the cause for owners of such troubled cars even though I certainly pointed this out to ,Autocar, Autoexpress and Evo the early days of faults being found.

They appear only to be interested in New cars for themselves and not investigating issue for the consumers, who buy their mags, and have models for grater than 12months with real life experience.

[vrskeith]

The VW Polo Rally car has ridden on the back of the Skoda Rallying success story , experience and development. How ANNOYING IT MUST BE TO SEE VW CLIMB ON THIS BANDWAGON.

VAG have i believe the S1 Audi coming out, so a Fast Small car for £25,000 - £30,000.

VW have some Sporty Polos planned i keep reading.

 

If they are going to take Skoda Rallying in a Mk3 Fabia as a R5 1.6 Turbo,

then surely Skoda will want some Warm Mk3's, why would you grandstand a car in Motorsport then the

Only Performance Models are ones with Stickers, Sporty Seats, Alloy Wheels  and Body kit..

Or will they use a Rapid body to go Rallying.

 

Who can tell what VAG will do with the small Skoda Hatches, but i doubt they will want a car again with Similar Performance that undercuts the Costly ones in the same size class from Audi and VW

 

I think many that like the size of a Fabia and good value will be happy with a Warm Hatch that is Reliable and Handles well,

a Choice of Manual and Auto in Diesel & Petrol would be nice.