Hi guys any thoughts on this one would be much appreciated.

Can the electronic stability program/control be fully disabled or backed right off in any way wth vcds? It's a 2014 vrs and its done 2,300 and at the moment standard apart from rear crash bar weights off, which has helped slightly by the way.

I will at some point this year modifying suspension bushes, springs and dampers, also brakes will be updated.

I don't want to spend good money modifying the mechanical bits if the electronic side is still going to drive the car for me, I'd rather go back to a mk1 vrs.

Thank you in advance for any help on this.

u

Wrighty

It probably could be disabled by removing fuses ect, but if you did that on the road you would be in trouble with the insurance, I know James does that on the track for his golf! (and it goes much faster!)

 

here's the thing though... I driven James golf on the track (oulton park) with the stability on, and its MUCH more nannying than the vRS! (his version of the golf was famous for it!) I can get the vRS sideways with the stability on it will interfere, but its much less nannying...

 

on the ROAD the biggest interventions you will feel is from the traction control, just switch it off at the dash, and you should see a HUGE improvement in speed and drivability on the road especially with proper tyres (I have RSR's on now!) 

 

I always have the traction off when "pressing on" its the only way the electronic diff will work! (that you CAN change with VCDS through 3 different settings, mine is on "middle"

 

Shark

It probably could be disabled by removing fuses ect, but if you did that on the road you would be in trouble with the insurance, I know James does that on the track for his golf! (and it goes much faster!)

 

here's the thing though... I driven James golf on the track (oulton park) with the stability on, and its MUCH more nannying than the vRS! (his version of the golf was famous for it!) I can get the vRS sideways with the stability on it will interfere, but its much less nannying...

 

on the ROAD the biggest interventions you will feel is from the traction control, just switch it off at the dash, and you should see a HUGE improvement in speed and drivability on the road especially with proper tyres (I have RSR's on now!) 

 

I always have the traction off when "pressing on" its the only way the electronic diff will work! (that you CAN change with VCDS through 3 different settings, mine is on "middle"

 

Shark

 

Is it at all possible that this years cars have a different stability setting/program on from standard or is it just me? Am I right in thinking my '04 mk1 didn't have any stability crap, just traction? 

 

With the traction button switched off (I always switch it off) I feel strange things from the car a lot under braking and in the corners, its unpredictable depending on how bumpy the road is, I want to try it with everything off so I can understand what it is doing and what the car really feels like. I've tried getting the back out in an empty car park and it wont let me, to do that I accelerated hard in second and turned in hard at the same time as lifting off sharply to induce oversteer, the result, good initial turn in grip from the front then car sits flat and pulls it's self straight with the brakes giving the impression of understeer, this is obviously a bit extreme but the basics of what I feel in spirited driving, So frustrated with it....

 

Wrighty

Edited 13 April, 201412 yr by wrightcnc2009

Maybe for the track you will want the ESC disabled, (Electronic Stability Control)

 

But like 'sharkrider' said, thats not for disabling on the road.

 

george

Maybe for the track you will want the ESC disabled, (Electronic Stability Control)

 

But like 'sharkrider' said, thats not for disabling on the road.

 

George

 

:( I wanna sell it and get something that I can drive, such a shame as I love the engine and dsg :(

I will admit the vRS in stock setup is not a handling joy. I will also confirm I hadn't managed to throw the tail out before I installed the rarb, but any other common experiences stop right there. I remember your other threads on the car's behaviour and can't at all say I've come across anything like them. All that stuff you're feeling the electronics do and ruining any spirited driving sounds really strange. Ok, I've changed springs and added a rarb but I'm easily having fun around roundabouts without the car being able to do anything about it. As you say, 2nd gear, and then (almost) full throttle and a sharp turn of the steering wheel and the tail is out while the front wheels are steadily pointing where I want to go, some opposite lock, still heavy on the throttle (not lift off though), and the tail just gets in line with the front and I'm shooting off. Obviously I'm not saying I can do a whole circle sideways (!) but I can totally control when I want to take a corner fast and tight and when I want to just throw the tail out (again: this became so easy only after the rarb) and I've never ever felt the electronics constraining me. They seem to be acting rather late and when they do it's really for the best of it I have found. I wonder whether there is something wrong with yours. Before selling out, it would be a good idea to try another vRS with a rarb on if you can (I don't even have the H&R which is supposed to be even better), or at least another stock vRS just to see if you can reproduce those symptoms you get on yours.

Edited 13 April, 201412 yr by newbie69

Short FWD car & good tyres on the rear,

do you really need the back end out?

Loss of adhesion/grip between the tyres and the road surface.

(Instead of removing the 25kg weights from the rear crash bar, bolt an extra set on the other side maybe.)

 

If you do want the rear end out, fit rubbish rear tyres, over inflate the tyre pressures, 

and apply some hand brake.

Maybe fit a fly off hand brake, or tape up the button, fit better rear pads, disconnect the ESC etc etc

 

**None of which are serious recommendations for using on the Public Highway.**

 

Or just buy a GT86/BRZ that comes on poor tyre to make it a drift machine.

or instead of buying/changing tyres, £500 will buy a nice cheap rear wheel drive car.  

Some old BMW, Maybe a Sierra Automatic RWD, they are good for tail out.

...or, a far more realistic solution, for a mere 150-200£ you can just buy and fit a rarb to the car you really like and drive everyday. It won't transform to a Toyota AE86 of course but it will offer some easily accessible back-end fun before the electronics will know what hit them. A success every time    . I don't even need to turn TCS off.

 

(All this provided your suspension/electronics work similarly to all other vRSs out there)

 

I've also got rid off the weights a long time now although this didn't affect the car's behaviour. Haven't felt it to have done so at least.

The 'TC' (ASR-Anti Slip Regulation) is acting on the front Drive wheels and the reason to maybe deside to switch off is because when wheel spin is detected it can cut power from the engine.

 

So you have 'ESC' on the car, Electronic Stability Control

& the Elements of that are,

'ASR (TC,) '

EDL (XDS,),

HBA,

HHC. 

I know, but one could maybe think you need to turn it off to let the wheels spin a little to help in such a situation but it's not the case.

Sorry you have lost me,

'In what sort of situation do you mean?'

 

What i was talking about is, in a spirited or sporting driving situation, TC on can detect Wheel Spin and cut power to the engine. That can be mid corner.

 

So if you are trying while going fast to not be in an Understeer situation, and power gets cut, 

not through your choice of lifting off the accelerator,

it can get hairy,

 

That is regardless, of if you have weights on or off, Springs, Dampers, ARB, Tyres etc.

You are nipping on and you are driving as you wish with handling as you like it, 

and the ECU/ESC/ASR decides you need less power.

 

It makes for an interesting situation sometimes.

So personally TC is Off and stays off.

this is an option 

wrightcnc2009...

 

this is what I bout for the "raw" driving experiance you seem to be after ..... NO electronics, not even ABS, RWD , VLSD.. (£600)

 

 

build thread here http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/308623-sharkriders-eunos-roadster/

Sorry you have lost me,

'In what sort of situation do you mean?'

 

What i was talking about is, in a spirited or sporting driving situation, TC on can detect Wheel Spin and cut power to the engine. That can be mid corner.

 

So if you are trying while going fast to not be in an Understeer situation, and power gets cut, 

not through your choice of lifting off the accelerator,

it can get hairy,

 

That is regardless, of if you have weights on or off, Springs, Dampers, ARB, Tyres etc.

You are nipping on and you are driving as you wish with handling as you like it, 

and the ECU/ESC/ASR decides you need less power.

 

It makes for an interesting situation sometimes.

So personally TC is Off and stays off.

 

Yes I think we're saying the same thing here. TC should be off if you want more control in a case like that but I was only pointing out the fact that after throwing the back end I can easily and safely get back in line even with TC on. Contraddicting with the OP's experiences with his car's electronics.

Edited 14 April, 201412 yr by newbie69

I thought that he wants the back out.

 

I thought he wanted a back end acting like his karts, Solid Suspension & RWD)

and drive it like when doing a Scandanavian Flick.

 

Tiff Needell Demonstrates this with FWD, available to view on youtube.

 

http://vbox7.com/play:d8967fa7

 

 

Obviously a Golf & not a Polo or some budget Fabia, but still DSG,

197bhp But weighs at least 150 kg more and very similar performance, & has ESC acting.

and for Track or Auto Test Action with a vRS Twincharger

there is enough stuff on Youtube VBH & others.

The Scandanavian flick is a bit extreme!!! I'm not trying to hang the back out and that's far from how a kart is driven with sticky slick tyres. It was my way of trying to explain the amount the esc intervenes and kills everything before it has started. If I'm trail braking into a corner it intervenes and makes it understeer, when I lift in a double apex corner to get the front to load and turn tighter for the second apex the brakes nibble away and it understeers then hesitates when reapplying the throttle. I haven't any suspicion there is a fault with the car only criticism that the electronics are far to quick to jump on and clam it all down.  

 

Watch this, jump straight to 3min's in and listen to what Tiff says about the esc, ignore the bit about the mk5 though where he has the tail out at 90 deg's because that's just silly, my point being the chassis needs some free rain to work but esc wont let it :no:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_4DLrwrafQ

Edited 14 April, 201412 yr by wrightcnc2009

Its all good stuff,

but tracks do not have cambers like real roads, seldom have leaves, sand, gravel, or diesel spilt on the surface,

 you do not have to stay on your own side of the road on a track.

UK Single Carraigeway roads have 60 mph NSL and about every car on sale in the UK can corner at that speeds,

so they try to make cars safe for those conditions.

 

You need to get a Clio before the latest one or a Swift, older Golf or the likes really,

the mk2 vRS or any VAG car really just seems like the wrong car if you want to nip on above the NSL's in the UK for

an exciting run.

With good tyres they just do OK at 60 mph.

Its all good stuff,

but tracks do not have cambers like real roads, seldom have leaves, sand, gravel, or diesel spilt on the surface,

 you do not have to stay on your own side of the road on a track.

UK Single Carraigeway roads have 60 mph NSL and about every car on sale in the UK can corner at that speeds,

so they try to make cars safe for those conditions.

 

You need to get a Clio before the latest one or a Swift, older Golf or the likes really,

the mk2 vRS or any VAG car really just seems like the wrong car if you want to nip on above the NSL's in the UK for

an exciting run.

With good tyres they just do OK at 60 mph.

The VRS badge is miss selling IMO, it baffles me why they (Vag) put 180ps in a chassis with fulltime esc that makes it feel much worst than the mk1, also i don't understand why the track day guys like Sharkrider and Sparkly haven't come up with the esc issue a long time ago, on track or road. I want to get rid but I'm not going to, In due course it will get lowered (that will include dampers) powerflex black series bushes, rarb, braided brake hoses, uprated discs, pads and callipers, not sure at what stage it will be at the how fast in august but what ever way I will drag it round with my balls if I must to get a time out of it.

 

Rant over...

They will have done that because it was 2009 with the SEAT and 2010 with the Skoda & VW,

and Mk1's finished in 2007 after 4 years, and things were moving on.

a Mk1 was 130 bhp & Heavier.

 

Sparkly has been to the track once with his vRS has he not.

& Sharkrider is improving the Estate from having had the Hatch Experience.

 

vRSy has the Videos of his times on track.

& a pretty modified car.

 

I thought your interest was Road Improvement.

I did Hill Climbs & Sprints in a Standard set up vRS, which is pretty similar to road use,

more so than Track Days, i think.

XDS Disabled, TC off, better brake pads,  fly off handbrake & suitable Tyres was about it, and lightened.

Road improvement is my main goal, my mk1 was a really good all rounder/compromise, it did fast or slow well when standard and after couple choice mods it was even better. I would like to take it on the how fast because I've never done a track day of any sort, Bedford is relatively close to me and it would be nice to meet a few folk from this forum all rolled in. 

 

Just found this on the VW web site: before it begins says it all really....

 

Our advanced Electronic Stabilisation Control detects critical situations to stop skidding before it begins.

ESC predicts what your car is about to do. It uses sensors to monitor the progress of your wheels and the moment they start to slip, ESC takes over by:

• Applying the brakes to one or more wheels
• Reducing engine power if necessary

This fast, effective reaction stops skidding before it begins.

How it works?

ESC links to your car's electronic systems, such as the anti-lock brakes (ABS) and engine braking control (EBC). It has sensors on the wheels and steering wheel, plus a yaw movement sensor.

The ESC also uses the electronic differential lock (EDL) and traction control to help correct over steer, under steer and loss of stability. The result is the best possible traction when driving round bends.

ESC monitors your car at all times. As soon as something unusual happens - if a wheel loses grip, for example, or the car starts to slip, it helps regain control by applying the brakes to each or all of the wheels, and cutting engine power.

Sports ESC

Sports ESC lets you have a bit more fun than with standard ESC, giving you more control of your car and allowing a more sporty driving style before intervening.

vRSy at Silverstone video has gone sadly.

http://trackscotland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5382

vRSy at Silverstone video has gone sadly.

http://trackscotland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5382

 

Interesting! like you say, shame the video link can't be watched. I'm happy as a pig in muck with power and dsg, the near on 200hp for road use is quite plenty, brakes and suspension for a better feel in the twisty bits would make it sweet and is where I'm after my kicks, I speed up for corners   

Did you see the Youtube link in the last posts.

 

450 bhp Audi 80 Quattro 1.4 TFSI Hillclimb

Did you see the Youtube link in the last posts.

 

450 bhp Audi 80 Quattro 1.4 TFSI Hillclimb

Just watched it, that's mental!!!

 

Is it at all possible that this years cars have a different stability setting/program on from standard or is it just me? Am I right in thinking my '04 mk1 didn't have any stability crap, just traction? 

 

With the traction button switched off (I always switch it off) I feel strange things from the car a lot under braking and in the corners, its unpredictable depending on how bumpy the road is, I want to try it with everything off so I can understand what it is doing and what the car really feels like. I've tried getting the back out in an empty car park and it wont let me, to do that I accelerated hard in second and turned in hard at the same time as lifting off sharply to induce oversteer, the result, good initial turn in grip from the front then car sits flat and pulls it's self straight with the brakes giving the impression of understeer, this is obviously a bit extreme but the basics of what I feel in spirited driving, So frustrated with it....

 

Wrighty

It's very rare I've experienced any electronic intervention in mine when pressing on/having fun. It will trigger the TC quite easily booting it from low speed in the wet/damp but that is all.

This might sound harsh (it's not meant to be) but if you are regularly feeling the electronics intervening on the public road then there is either something wrong with your car or you are driving like a complete tool.