so to top off my very bad day they've sold the CTHE skoda i was gonna go see tomorrow literally the only red one left so I'm asking you all is there a mega big difference between the CAVE and CTHE talking power output as standard etc ? :(

CTHE

CTHE

Edited 15 December, 201411 yr by vrskeith

I've got Cave. Proper quick. Better run with 99 octane fuel IMO. Mines standard. Not driven CTHE but if you whack a tune box on it, you'll be getting the same as the CTHE anyway apparently :-)

are these caves really a ticking time bomb? :( 

There were 1,800 CAVE in vRS Fabias registered in the UK between 2010 & 2012.

 

Several hundred have required Oil Consumption Tests, Breather & Valve Mods, ECU Updates,

then Several Hundred have had replacement engines. Some have had replacement engines replaced.

So the Number is about 2 out of 10 were bad, and that number is growing.

There are CAVE out there that are very good,

There are ones that are failing and are in Warranty & out of the Manufacturers Warranty.

 

Between 2012 & 2014 there are getting on for 1,200 CTHE Fabia Mk2.

There are a few that have had replacement engines, 

but not many, so they are pretty safe as a purchase.

 

You need to know what you are buying,

there are members here with perfectly good CAVE engine cars selling them, or keeping them.

There are ones with Replacement engines that are perfectly good.

 

The numbers are similar for the 3 Other Twinchargers, Polo GTI. Seat Ibiza Cupra & Audi A1 185 ps.

About 1,400 VW's. 2,000 Seats & 500 Audi 

& a similar percentage with bad engines.

Edited 15 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

I've got a 2011 CAVE and touch wood nothing major has gone wrong. Need to learn from others making sure you keep an eye on the oil and look for misfires. Recommend not going for anything earlier than 2011.

 

If you can go for a CTHE then you're better off and I'm lead to believe they have slightly more bhp as standard.

?

Is the 62 Plate you are looking at with 'Corts Ltd'? 

 

Maybe get them to take £500 off that price and then you can use that to buy a 2 Year Warranty in the Future.

& have them do a Service with Spark Plugs Replaced & ECU Update before you buy.

 

Sorted then.

yea its corts buddy , how much is that car worth cash? is it worth the gamble 

not all CAVEs are bad. I ran mine for 50,000 miles and it was fine, used very little oil, and the spark plugs were fine..get the log book, and call the previous owners, and check warrenty work wioth skoda....

 

as for power most CAVE engines give 180bhp most CTHE 195-200 ...

 

as midlifecrisis said, a TMC box on a CAVE engine will give 200bhp

Yes.

But it needs the Plugs changed, and see if the DSG Service Campaign is done at Skoda or VW.

 

£8,500 cash seems right.

They are going to have to take that anyway to sell it.

 

PS

'bobnaldo'  asked in the other thread if his car would interest you,

Proper job, good buy,  maybe a bargain for you and a sale for him.  

Edited 15 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

worth the gamble then guys  ? 

You have done all the checking, well worth it.

Warranty must be water tight though.    Service Record is OK,

 be sure there is no Remap on it. 

You can then enjoy, & also your Insurance is happy, it is a standard car.

 

george

Take an OBD II adaptor and check it for misfires hoping the log hasn't been wiped.

I wasn't aware that the CAVE was less powerful than the CTHE. The performance figure are published as the same. How much more powerful is it? Economy?

What happened was the CTHE engine went in the Fabia vRS in the last quarter 2012.

 

Skoda said nothing, changed no figures, Economy, Emissions, VED,  same car, a bit of a change inside,

same weight, revised engine, Modified Engine Management. (ECU /MAP)

 

but.

Seat launch the Facelift Ibiza Cupra early 2013,  3-4 months after the vRS got the Engine, ECU/Map (power hike.) 

 

So the same CTHE as in the vRS, Same new ECU / MAP as in the vRS.

they give the same BHP / PS as they gave for the CAVE in the Cupra, GTI & vRS,

 but lower emissions figure, better economy figure,  better performance figures, & make it a lower VED class.(matches the GTI & A1 185ps)

but the car is not any lighter than the previous one.

Odd.   

But that is the VWG for you.

http://autoexpress.co.uk/seat/ibiza/62507/seat-ibiza-cupra-facelift

 

Journalists & Motoring Roadtesters are generally lazy, 

the Media people as VW, Skoda, Seat or Audi hand them the Press / Media pack and thats where they get their information,

and seldom do they have a clue what they are given to drive, they take the word of the Manufacturers Employees.

and then the magazines repeat for ever what they have Officially.

 

If they bothered, they would weigh cars, time them, even compare side by side.

A Skoda vRS Estate which is longer & heavier is not Lighter than a vRS Hatch, but for 4 years Skoda have said they are.

25 KG bolted to the rear of the vRS hatch & a 19 kg spare wheel as standerd, as the estate had,

and it is still lighter than the Estate & the 3 other Twinchargers from 3 door Seat & the VW or Audi as a 5 door..

Edited 15 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Oh I see, I always take performance figures with a pinch of salt anyway as there never what they say. My last car was an Audi A3 2.0 TFSI WITH S - tronic which had a 0-60 according to the brochure of 6.9 seconds but my Fabia 7.3 feels much quicker and has more of a punch to it when using the kickdown. I'm assuming thats due to the supercharger giving me max torque earlier?

No, it is just according to how the Volkswagen Group do it,

 

If they cost more, you can not let the customers think they are not so good performers, Top Speed, 0-62. Economy or Emissions.

 

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK.

'Do not bother with Engineering Technology, just Engineer the Figures.' 

 (If challenged, just say they are only an indication.)

If the ASA take action on our Published figures, who cares.

 

 

as for power most CAVE engines give 180bhp most CTHE 195-200 ...

 

 

 

bit off subject but has anyone had a CTHE on a rolling road? I haven't seen a printout for one shown on here.

Looking at the graph GoneoffSki bumped no difference.

Used to be a similar discussion on the MKI forum - ASZ v BLT - with some claiming the sandwich produced an extra 20bhp, which I never quite believed...

They do not all have the same Power CAVE or CTHE.

They should meet the Minimum Official Output on 95 ron in the UK,

because that is the expected output in other World Regions at a big range of Temperatures & Altitudes.

 

Why VW have had do do 'Updates',  the earliest CAVE were failing, not just because of their lack of Quality Control on Components,

also the Engine Management.  ie the MAP,

So they re-write them.

To protect the engine.

 

Then the Revised the Engine, and some were still failing, 

then they Update the Software.

 

So personally i think the later Maps are more Tame.

Plus you get an engine run in, better Oil than came from the factory.  & all 99 Ron is not the Same,

It is 99 RON Minimum.  

(So Momentum for me, good oil, good plugs and a CAVE Engine, and some are around 185 bhp standard.)

Edited 15 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

bit off subject but has anyone had a CTHE on a rolling road? I haven't seen a printout for one shown on here.

yeah, there have been about 3 or 4 standard CTHE's on here with an average of about 195bhp..... some from seat giving about 200... (cupra.net) 

 

I havent had mine on the RR (yet, I will at the first oppertunity!) but I did have a CAVE engined car I ran for 50k , I had  TMC box on (on setting 7) and no other mods, and I had that RR'd at 198bhp..... my new one "felt" as fast, and has a "kick" (like a 'step') at 5-7k, that the old engine didn't have (others confirm this "kick") I think its just been mapped to give a bit more....I'll try to find you a graph

yeah, there have been about 3 or 4 standard CTHE's on here with an average of about 195bhp..... some from seat giving about 200... (cupra.net) 

 

I havent had mine on the RR (yet, I will at the first oppertunity!) but I did have a CAVE engined car I ran for 50k , I had  TMC box on (on setting 7) and no other mods, and I had that RR'd at 198bhp..... my new one "felt" as fast, and has a "kick" (like a 'step') at 5-7k, that the old engine didn't have (others confirm this "kick") I think its just been mapped to give a bit more....I'll try to find you a graph

 

Now you have said that about the “kick”.  I had a new ECU update from Skoda about 3 week’s ago to resolve a misfire issue. 

 

The car use to have smooth delivery of power right through the rev range but now since the update there seem to be an extra kick around the 5-7k…

Now you have said that about the “kick”. I had a new ECU update from Skoda about 3 week’s ago to resolve a misfire issue.

The car use to have smooth delivery of power right through the rev range but now since the update there seem to be an extra kick around the 5-7k…

Keep an eye on the misfire issue as it can lead to bigger issues! Best check the plugs if they weren't already checked.

Keep an eye on the misfire issue as it can lead to bigger issues! Best check the plugs if they weren't already checked.

 

The dealer would not replace them so I raised a request with Skoda UK to ask why you would not change them due to the nature of these engines.  There master technician from Skoda UK reviewed my case and agreed with the dealer saying the ECU update will resolve the issue.

So I listened to the folks on here and had them replaced anyway at my own cost.  9000 miles but better to be safe than an engine go boom…..