BMW refuse warranty claim after trackday.... Ouch! (UPDATE - Claim now paid)

[Furbytom]

Just been reading this on PH:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1481763&mid=0&i=0&nmt=Advice+%3A+BMW+warranty+claim&mid=0

Gotta feel for the poor guy being landed with a potential £13k bill.

Seems crazy to me that BMW would refuse to honour the warranty in this scenario. I'm not sure a trackday constitutes a racing/Motorsport/.competitive event?

Also abit harsh of the dealership to report him to BMW UK in my opinion.

[mannyo]

It would be obvious to anyone why the car engine failed, BMW assist would have attended a trackday event at silverstone and recovered a broken car. BMW UK would have been fully aware as soon as the breakdown service was called. A scan of the ECU may well reveal a host of detail that you are not aware of.

 

Skoda UK have also done this before to a member on here quiet a few years ago because the car was modified and used on track when it suffered an engine fault. A scan of the ECU revealed a fault code of "Maximum engine revs exceeded, warranty void". No check engine light, and IIRC could at the time only be cleared by a dealer.

[Furbytom]

Bit difficult for the guy to be exceeding maximum revs when the car is an auto though?

[mannyo]

in the case of the BMW, yes I agree and the auto box itself does not usually allow the engine to operate outside normal parameters. In theory you should be able to drive at maximum RPM without incident, but obviously something went wrong here.

[Brimma]

Do BMW have anything available like a DSG remap, where gearbox parameters can be overidden?

[DGW]

This is the incident involving a Briskoda member whose 2.0TSI engine failed 4 days following a visit to Santa Pod.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/248095-timing-jump-nightmare-can-anyone-help/

[planehazza]

Shocking behaviour of the dealers IMO.

[Phil-E]

That's shocking.

 

So if he'd have been driving with his foot flat to the floor on the Autobahn they'd have repaired it. Or if he was having a blast down a B road they'd have repaired it... but because he chose to take his "racing" safely onto a track rather than racing on the public highway they've turned down the warranty claim!?

 

Terrible!

 

Phil

[Ootohere]

Correct behaviour from the Dealer IMO, it is not them that pay, they are just agents.

http://skoda.co.uk/sitecollectiondocuments/brochures/warranty-booklet-single.pdf

see exclusions.

 

If you buy a Road Car & get a Warranty, then you read the T&C's, or with an Extended Warranty.

If you buy a Track Car or Competition Car see what Warranty you get or can buy,

or just meet the costs of your breakages.

 

Like Insurance for the Public Highway, get the cover you need,

& if you want Track, Off Road Course or Motorsport Insurance buy the correct cover and read the Policy.

[Auric Goldfinger]

Also abit harsh of the dealership to report him to BMW UK in my opinion.

 

I would think the BMW dealer is covering his own back, if it was found that the dealer knew the circumstances of the failure but BMW didn't, but found out later and work was carried out the dealer could end up having to foot the bill if BMW then refused a warranty claim

[KenONeill]

I've known someone have a rod through block incident at 4_000 rpm (engine was designed to be safe to at least 6_500) so the location of the incident is irrelevant IMO.

 

Similarly, a standard modern EMS engine should be incapable of exceeding design revs short of deliberate abuse in the form of a high speed block downshift which is clearly impossible with a self-shifter (include Autos, DSGs...)

[Ootohere]

It is nice where people with Valid Warranties are treated correctly, and the Warranty Covers them.

Fair Treatment, and any Investigation of the ECU done, and the pay out made.

 

Snide and Fraudulent claims can hit genuine claimants and cause suspicion on those that are entitled to fair treatment.

 

If you are making a Warranty Claim, like a Insurance Claim you may be asked to sign a Declaration and you can tell the truth or not,

but it should be your pocket that gets hit, and not the Underwriter, or the Wider Buying Public if you are defrauding financially.

 

Many think Shop Lifting only costs big Business, but all customers pay for it.

Warranty Claims are often said they are not worth the Paper they are Written on,

but then if you are entitled to claim, claim, and if you know you are outside the T&C's,  suck it up.

[sharkrider]

track days have smallprint stating "no timing gear is allowed to be used" they clearly state it is not competetive, OR racing, OR motorsport, so the warrenty exclusion does not apply...

 

my dealer knows I go on track all the time! I have even had some warrenty work rushed through,on my old car, in time, so I could make my date with the nurburgring!

[Ootohere]

Do Skoda UK & the Warranty Underwriters agree with that assessment and opinion on Track Days not being Motorsport?

[Phil-E]

Do Skoda UK & the Warranty Underwriters agree with that assessment and opinion on Track Days not being Motorsport?

 

Well motorsport suggests some competitive element to it with it being a "sport". A track day is just you paying to use someone's private land to drive round.  

 

That's why they couldn't refuse a claim if your engine blew on the Nurburgring. The ring is just a private road with no speed limit.

[Ootohere]

The hint about Motorsport is the Warning Signs as you leave the Public Highway,

the Noise Checks, & the Disclaimer and sometimes 3rd party insurance.  (But if Small Print says not Motorsport, then that will be that!)

Like insurance, look at , Ground Off Road, Courses, Tracks & Trial Routes'. on Definitions.

the likes of the MSA run or issue permits for Clubs Promotion events and the likes on Road under 'Treasure Hunts', so that they are not 'Motor Sport' events.

 

If you are on the Public Road that is 'The Ring', then that is no different from being on a UK Toll Road.

Edited 4 February, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Aspman]

I suspect this is one of those grey areas that needs tested in court. And BMW has much bigger pockets

[M12MKD]

Advertised as the best handling car........a drivers car even. Yet when tested it failed and BMW will not pay out.

 

Now personally I'm on the fence on this one and can see both sides of the view. But IMHO for the sake of the actual cost to them is it worth the bad PR?

 

Yes the bill to the customer is 13k......but that would not be the cost to BMW.

 

Now crosses BMW of my replacement car list lol

[BossFox]

Yes, that's pretty bad PR.

Would concern me because reading up on this BMW warranty department seems like a PITA to deal with in general.

[Ally_bassman]

Bad form from BMW.

 

You could maybe understand if its was a 220d m sport.. but its the 'Hot' version.

 

They can't expect buyers to spend that sort of money on that sort of car with that sort of engine and not to 'Rag' it!

 

Like previously mentioned, if it blew up while being maxed on the Autobahn, they'd stump up the cash.

 

I think if the owners kicks up as much of a stink as possible to the press, I reckon BMW will cave in.

 

If he took out track day insurance, that could help his cause maybe?

[BossFox]

Bad form from BMW.

You could maybe understand if its was a 220d m sport.. but its the 'Hot' version.

They can't expect buyers to spend that sort of money on that sort of car with that sort of engine and not to 'Rag' it!

Like previously mentioned, if it blew up while being maxed on the Autobahn, they'd stump up the cash.

 

Exactly, but would they.

 

The opening line of the reason they rejected the warranty claim was "The purpose for which your BMW was designed and built was as a passenger carrying vehicle under normal driving conditions" which to me is like waving a red flag around for a manufacturer.

Is doing 150mph on the Autobahn normal driving conditions.

 

I think they would cave in after a fight to that, as well as the issue in the first claim.

 

But trying to save themselves money in claims now is costing them more in sales and bad publicity IMO.  M car, err...

[Ootohere]

BMW will now obviously have to declare when selling Used Cars like,  Management / Press-Media Fleet used by Magazines & Motoring Journalists on Track,

as Ex Tracked, raced or rallied or used not on the Public Highway and now without Valid Manufacturers Warranty.

 

which will be an interesting situation for BMW UK.

[Ally_bassman]

Agreed Richard.

 

They are clearly trying to have it both ways.

 

Well in that case they need to change their advertising:

 

BMW: The Ultimate Driving Machine*

 

 

 

*Definition of driving is pootling around town looking pretty.

[BossFox]

BMW will now obviously have to declare when selling Used Cars like,  Management / Press-Media Fleet used by Magazines & Motoring Journalists on Track,

as Ex Tracked, raced or rallied or used not on the Public Highway and now without Valid Manufacturers Warranty.

 

which will be an interesting situation for BMW UK.

 

Good point George.

 

One very nice M car, owned by BMW from new.  Took it on track once to show some journalists, so the waaranty is void.  How would sir like to pay?

[Furbytom]

It is nice where people with Valid Warranties are treated correctly, and the Warranty Covers them.

Fair Treatment, and any Investigation of the ECU done, and the pay out made.

Snide and Fraudulent claims can hit genuine claimants and cause suspicion on those that are entitled to fair treatment.

If you are making a Warranty Claim, like a Insurance Claim you may be asked to sign a Declaration and you can tell the truth or not,

but it should be your pocket that gets hit, and not the Underwriter, or the Wider Buying Public if you are defrauding financially.

Many think Shop Lifting only costs big Business, but all customers pay for it.

Warranty Claims are often said they are not worth the Paper they are Written on,

but then if you are entitled to claim, claim, and if you know you are outside the T&C's, suck it up.

I don't think the guy was trying to submit a fraudulent claim. It's not as if he towed the car hundreds of miles home before calling BMW assist.

The issue is if a trackday invalidates the warranty. From what I can see he hasn't done anything outside of the T+Cs but I guess that depends on who makes the definition of 'Motorsport'. Driving briskly on a closed road/circuit in a non- competitive manner is perfectly reasonable in my view (not that I would personally take such a new and expensive motor out on one, but that's more due to concern about accident damage lol).

As others have said, it's an "M-performance vehicle" which means it should be designed to withstand some higher-performance driving!

Customers shouldn't be left footing the bill for a mechanical failure just because they tried out the cars performance in a safe environment off the public road. :-)

Shame on you BMW!