Fabia vRS Estate -Rolling Road Run

[Furbytom]

Hi All,

Following on from Santa Pod I decided to put the Fabia on the Rollers to see what power the little beast is making. It's a 2014 car with the CTHE engine and running as stock (no power mods).

The runs went pretty well. Did 3 all together (one done in 6th and two in 5th) and the results of two are below (the two 5th gear runs were pretty identical so only posted one).

Had a brief hiccup at the start where the car wouldn't change up out of first when on the rollers. This was due to the ECU throwing a wobbly that the back wheels were stationary whilst the fronts were spinning. Disconnecting the ABS soon sorted that!

First run in 6th gear came out at 195bhp @6700rpm and 204lb-ft @2860rpm.

2nd Run in 5th gear posted 188bhp @6070rpm and 195lb-ft @3370rpm.

The Rolling road tech reckoned the 2nd run is the most representative as he felt that there was an inaccuracy in the drivetrain loss calculation for the first run giving a slightly elevated result.

Overall I'm quite happy, especially as the dyno owner feels his unit is quite conservative with it's calculated power outputs.

Comment was made about the obvious surge in power at 5000rpm which can clearly be seen on the second graph. This demonstrates quite nicely the extra punch that you can feel on the road at 5k when pushing on. Nice to confirm it wasn't my imagination! My old CAVE car never had that and was much more linear.

Here is a quick vid of proceedings:

Enjoy!

Tom

[newbie69]

Good info here. This is in accordance with what my tuner said when I asked him which gear we should use, he said 5th gear should be used, as 6th gives higher results and that is exactly what is shown through your graphs as well.

 

I always thought 195 hp sounded a bit optimistic even for a CTHE and tried to think of causes for so high readings, that's one thing to keep in mind when looking at graphs.

[sharkrider]

excellent, there was never a kick at 5k in my cave either, in fact it started to fall away ... there is in my CTHE.... nice to see the power up threre at 6700 revs too!

 

you may have been getting a bit of heat sink in the the later runs.... I would go for a figure somewhere inbetween... 191bhp?

 

good result..... sadly though this meas mine is probably the quoted 180 bhp! lol....

[Laars]

Good stuff! By the looks of it that's the same dyno equipment as used here. So we should have some comparable data here how mapping changes the curves (done in fifth gear):

 

Edited 3 June, 2015 by Laars

[Furbytom]

excellent, there was never a kick at 5k in my cave either, in fact it started to fall away ... there is in my CTHE.... nice to see the power up threre at 6700 revs too!

you may have been getting a bit of heat sink in the the later runs.... I would go for a figure somewhere inbetween... 191bhp?

good result..... sadly though this meas mine is probably the quoted 180 bhp! lol....

Yep I think you might be right about a little heat soak, the dyno guy reckoned if we had used 5th for the first run if might have made 190ish.

The fan blowing air at the car also looks a little weedy tbh so I'm not sure that helped lol!

[sharkrider]

your car is one of those that would crack 200bhp with an intake intercooler and exhaust....... of course then a custom map would be in order

[Ootohere]

Furbytom has a standard 1.4 TSI CTHE Engine.

 

What is it yours is Laars,

Stage 1 CAVE with Intake and Intecooler mods?

[Laars]

Stage 1 Cave, no other mods.

 

Curves might be different to begin with, I know.

[Ootohere]

Laars, it is the Torque shown more than anything.

That is better than the Official Figures from VW for the 2015 VW Polo GTI 1.8TSI 192 ps Manual gearbox model.

 

..............................

Off Topic. sorry.

I see that SEAT are to launch a new Seat Ibiza 1.8 TSI Manual this year.

I expect they will be meaning it to have more go than the 1.4 TSI CTHE Twincharger DSG they have now.

If they do a 1.8 TSI DSG like the New Polo GTI 1.8TSI DSG, it would have the same torque as the current Twincharger,

unless they remap it a bit.

Edited 3 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Laars]

Laars, it is the Torque shown more than anything.

That is better than the Official Figures from VW for the 2015 VW Polo GTI 1.8TSI 192 ps Manual gearbox model.

 

 

Maybe it's because no one here has had the guts to put a Revo remap on their car recently. They might have got it right  

(end sarcasm & off topic).

[Ootohere]

I have a very recent REVO Stage 1 Map right now on a CAVE Engine,

and had one 2 years ago, so know a little bit about them.

My daily drive CAVE vRS has a Stage 1 MAP not by REVO.

 (Sarcasm not required, it is not who can p33 the highest. Just discussing Mods, and it is good to see Dynos of a CTHE, and we know how Furbtoms vRS performs, there are plenty of CAVE Dynos print outs about.)

Edited 3 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Laars]

Wasn't trying to show off, just referred to the common opinion about the map on this forum. The dyno figures don't mean all that much to me. Just nice to have an indication of getting value for the money spent and always nice to see other peoples results.

The figures are always up for debate as it depends so much on the rolling road.  

 

Any plans of getting yours on a dyno? Would be very interesting to see the results.

Pretty sure you were mentioning on another thread you sold the vRS quite some time ago.

 

btw If you happen to have a dyno sheet of any given VRS from the same Dyno as OP, please post it.

 

Regarding Furbytom's dyno runs, I'm a bit surprised that the car wasn't strapped down to any extent. You can't have the hand brake on while doing this, so it was only relying on the rolls. 

Edited 3 June, 2015 by Laars

[Ootohere]

Not saying you were showing off.

They go on the Dyno quite often but really have no intention of posting online, but drive on the road all the time.

 

They produce what we know they produce, fuel and air intake temperature changes them a little, 

and as you say differences with the Dyno Used, and Tyres on the car.

205-220 BHP is common with Stage 1 CAVE. 205-215 BHP with a Tuning Box.

 

It is good seeing what a Standard CTHE shows.

[Furbytom]

Regarding Furbytom's dyno runs, I'm a bit surprised that the car wasn't strapped down to any extent. You can't have the hand brake on while doing this, so it was only relying on the rolls.

Don't worry mate, there was plenty of strapping going on around the back of the car, you just can't see it on the video. It nearly reached a roller speed of 150mph at one point which was mildly scary. I certainly wasn't going to stand in front of the car haha!

Edit: just watched the vid back again and if you look closely you can see strapping running from the car on bothe sides at the front just behind the front wheel arches.

[Ootohere]

Looking closely i see he enjoys the Walkers crisps eaten slowly.

[Furbytom]

Looking closely i see he enjoys the Walkers crisps eaten slowly.

Haha,yeah good spot! That bloke with the crisps never said a word the entire time we were there. Maybe just hungry lol

[Furbytom]

The M135i is going on those rollers at the end of the month too so will be interesting to see what power that makes compared to the quoted stats......

[Richf]

The power run should be done in the gear that is closest to a 1:1 ratio , dont know the ratios on the VRS but I would put money on 5th being closer than 6th , that accounts for the higher figures in 6th

 

Your dyno operator should know this

[OzFabia]

Any tips on preparing for a run on one of these? I'm doing one tomorrow*, and I've never done one before. It's just a power test - a couple of runs up to close to redline - rather than an extended tuning session. I've had oil and plugs changed a couple of months back, and am intending to make sure the oil is topped up to full if necessary.

 

* Mostly for curiosity, but also because I once read a nasty rumour on a Seat forum (couldn't find the reference again) that someone's twin-charger had had the maximum torque lowered by ECU modification to cover up oil consumption issues....

Edited 6 November, 2015 by OzFabia

[newbie69]

* Mostly for curiosity, but also because I once read a nasty rumour on a Seat forum (couldn't find the reference again) that someone's twin-charger had had the maximum torque lowered by ECU modification to cover up oil consumption issues....

 

What non-sense... if anything, red-lining this engine often has proven a sure way to keep it from developing oil consumption habits. Also, after 4 years of ownership and close monitoring/logging, the periods were the engine seemed to be dropping the typical consumption were periods were the car did extended and stressful trips (ie. Autobahn travels). November to March though, with all those cold runs below 2K seems to always make it drink that bit more.

 

No special preparation, the last one I did with mine seemed to give the dyno guy a hard time disabling the TCS from kicking in. I think eventually he had to pull some fuse out.

 

One other thing I have noticed is that's a good idea to give it some beans prior to the run, like on your way to the dyno. Don't know why, but twice it's proven to provide very slightly better results instead of driving as light as possible which is what you would do in order to prevent heat-soaking.

[OzFabia]

What non-sense... if anything, red-lining this engine often has proven a sure way to keep it from developing oil consumption habits. Also, after 4 years of ownership and close monitoring/logging, the periods were the engine seemed to be dropping the typical consumption were periods were the car did extended and stressful trips (ie. Autobahn travels). November to March though, with all those cold runs below 2K seems to always make it drink that bit more.

 

No special preparation, the last one I did with mine seemed to give the dyno guy a hard time disabling the TCS from kicking in. I think eventually he had to pull some fuse out.

 

One other thing I have noticed is that's a good idea to give it some beans prior to the run, like on your way to the dyno. Don't know why, but twice it's proven to provide very slightly better results instead of driving as light as possible which is what you would do in order to prevent heat-soaking.

 

I probably didn't make that clear. What I meant was that the dealership had adjusted the ECU to lower the torque, and so cause the engine to use less oil. Whether this was true, or whether it would even work if so, I don't know.

 

Thanks for the tip on not going easy on the way there. Having the engine closer to warm than cold makes sense in more than one way.

[Ootohere]

People get Breather Mods, and Oil Spray Jets changed and a Software Update,

so you would be needing to Dyno before and after to know what the Software Update did do.

 

& yes, some cars after 'Software Updates' do not perform so well.

& Some Cars got Replacement Engines and 'New ECU's' and Software / MAP and were loads better, 

quicker and better performing all round.

 

Actually VW did change Engine Management and Mapping and Torque as it happened while trying to 'Fix' High Oil Consumption. Between 2009-12

& between 2012-2014 several times.

 

Which is why not all CAVE, then CTHE cars are the same.

2009-2012 CAVE have various Software Updates done,

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

then the First CTHE behave rather well, rather nippy, rather different DSG behaviour, then there was the Seat Cupra 2013 CTHE 

with the need for Speed, but the Engine Management needed a tweak.

There were early CTHE Oil Use and Engine Failures still, then there were 'Softwear Updates'.

So not all Twinchargers are equal from late 2012 to 2014.

They will all meet the Minimum performance while running on 95 ron though.

 

http://autocar.co.uk/car-review/seat/ibiza-cupra/first-drives/seat-ibiza-cupra-first-drive-review

 

............................................

Then the New Polo GTI 1.8TSI 192 ps became available with 320Nm as a Manual and 250Nm with a DSG,

Same times etc, and that confused some. But is unrelated.

The 2016 Seat Cupra 1.8TSI will be available as a Manual only.

[OzFabia]

The figure I read - and again this is from a one-off SEAT forum post - was 180NM, which is considerably less than any of the claimed values for any version of these motors. And, from what I gather, VAG cars are often under-quoted on power/torque (MPG and emissions may be a different matter...)

 

Anyway, I will report back on the results, whatever they might be.

Edited 6 November, 2015 by OzFabia

[Ootohere]

180ps @ 6,200 rpm is what they gave as the offcial figures.

& 250 Nm (184lb/ft) 2,000-4,500 rpm

 that is supposed to be on 95 Octane.  Any detuning from that is unlikely.

 

a Seat Cupra FR 1.4 TSI 150ps DSG i once had on a Dyno running 99 ron was putting that out.

[vxh26]

<SNIP> red-lining this engine often has proven a sure way to keep it from developing oil consumption habits. <SNIP>

Do you have any scientific evidence or explanation to support this assertion?