Are "all-weather" tyres winter legal in EU

[ARWEN]

Hi All,

 

My Superb Estate SEL 1.6 Greenline arrives soon (2-3 weeks) and comes fitted with these "all weather" tyres. (206/50 R17 89H (NAR)

 

My dealer cannot tell me the exact brand / make of tyre yet and im heading off across Europe pretty soon after delivery. I cant find any info stating that these are considered as legal winter tyres in Europe, especially Germany and Austria where the police are known for pulling UK reg vehicles during the winter season to check.

 

Do I just have to wait until the car arrives and then see whats fitted? (Doesnt leave me much time to source a set of winter wheels and tyres otherwise.)

 

Any ideas / thoughts?

 

 

Edited 26 January, 2017 by ARWEN

[Gizmo]

Welcome

 

i do not know of any Skodas fitted with winter tyres from the factory. 

 

There are are a few sets in the classifieds  which may fit?

[BillyJim]

Your first post, so welcome.

As Gizmo says, unless you specified all-season tyres you'll most likely have standard "summer" tyres fitted in the UK.

There's a lot of misinformation around and "especially Germany and Austria where the police are known for pulling UK reg vehicles during the winter season to check" is, quite frankly, a load of rubbish.

Winter tyres are a requirement only when the prevailing circumstances dictate - snow, ice, freezing temperatures - and is not dictated by the calendar.

It's an on-the-spot fine in Germany if the tyres are not suitable for the conditions as well as penalty points which will be recorded despite not being valid in the UK. You also risk having a prohibition of movement notice or instant removal at your expense (and seizure if you're unable to pay the spot fine or dispute the offence). Penalties are doubled if you get stuck or are deemed to cause hindrance to other road users.

All-season tyres are acceptable if they have the mountain/snowflake symbol on the sidewalls. M+S alone is not sufficient.

[RickTT]

3 hours ago, Gizmo68 said:

Welcome

 

i do not know of any Skodas fitted with winter tyres from the factory. 

 

There are are a few sets in the classifieds  which may fit?

 

 

The SE Business comes with the option of All Season Tyres, mine even did when i ordered, plus i saw other models too with the option.

 

 

Also, as long as the tyres are marked M+S, im pretty sure you are ok.

https://www.das.de/de/rechtsportal/verkehrsrecht/fahrer-und-halterpflichten/winterreifenpflicht.aspx

[Huskoda]

M+S is a worthless 'spec'. It only means 25% of the tread is open, but says nothing about the suitability of the compound or pattern. If you want tyres that actually are of use in wintry conditions then they need the Mountain & Snowflake logo.

 

The Americans refer to summer tyres as 'all-weather/season' and this may be confusing the salesman. The only car I have ever seen that had Mountain & Snowflake marked tyres out of the factory was a Peugeot 2008 that came with Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons. Quite a few SUV type vehicles can come with M+S marked ones, however.

[skidpan]

10 minutes ago, Huskoda said:

M+S is a worthless 'spec'.

 

Correct. Many "summer" tyres have the M + S script on the sidewalls to fool the customer into thinking they are buying a great all round tyre.

 

12 minutes ago, Huskoda said:

If you want tyres that actually are of use in wintry conditions then they need the Mountain & Snowflake logo.

 

Have used Kleber Quadraxer on both my Seat and the wifes Ceed and Micra. Its an "all season" tyre with the 3 peak mountain and snowflake symbol and it works very well. Probably not as good as a proper winter tyre but it would be legal where winter tyres are mandatory and will be better than many cheap imported winter tyres.

 

But beware. A few years ago some tyres were being imported with the 3 peak mountain and snowflake symbol that were not what they first appeared to be. The actual symbol moulded into the sidewall was a mirror image of the genuine symbol and were clearly fakes to the experts.

 

My advice would be to only buy well known brands. They might cost a few pound more but over the life of the tyre its a small price to pay for your (and others) safety.

[penguin17]

http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/winter-tyres/laws-and-legislation

 

 

[ARWEN]

Thanks Everyone, some good advice and pointers in your replies.

 

Just to be clear, its not a tyre choice that i have made as such, these are the tyres that are specified on the Greenline Estate by Skoda themselves.

 

Penguin 17, the black circles link you gave seems to be pretty clear re the law in Austria:

 

" In Austria, the law states that between 1st of November and the 15th of April, a car can only drive in winter conditions (i.e. snow, ice, slush, etc) as long as winter tyres have been fitted. If an all-season tyre bears the "M + S" mark on the sidewall, these will be considered as an adequate alternative"

 

Hopefully the same law would apply in Germany?  What happened to all this cross border conformity throughout the EU?

 

Looks like I will just have to wait and see what get delivered and go from there.

 

 

[Huskoda]

A Greenline is not likely to have any form of winter tyre on it because they are too 'sticky' so will increase the rolling resistance and will make it less eco. From what I have seen, almost all eco-specced cars use rock hard eco tyres that are horrendous. Is your concern purely one of meeting the legal checkbox or one of safety?

[ARWEN]

Huskoda.

I was thinking much the same "green" spec usually means low resistance etc, but in this case Skoda are saying all weather whic is kind if strange?

Ive driven across Europe in the winter for many years so understand the importance of winter tyres, hence my concern with these ones. I just dont have any experience of so called all weather. If they are up to the job, as defined by Skoda and my insurers, then im happy to give them a go.

However, if they dont meet the laws as defined by Germany for example, then im equally happy to bite the bullet and buy another set of wheels accordingly. (Could do without spending another £500 quid straight away though)

 

 

[penguin17]

http://www.mrwinterwheels.co.uk/skoda-winter-wheels-tyres/superb-2015-winter-wheels/

 

I bought a full set of 16" alloys and Goodyear Ultragrip 9 Winter tyres from this website for cheaper than a set of Winter tyres would have been for my usual 18" alloys.  The price to just change one set of wheels for another is also less than having to swap Summer<>Winter tyres on the same set of wheels. 

 

I looked at the All-Seasons options and TBH I found there were too many compromises based on the multiple reviews and info I could find online. The general consensus is they are off mediocre in comparison to a good Summer tyre, in the Summer and way off the pace in comparison to a dedicated Winter tyre, in the Winter.  Having been using both a Winter and Summer set of wheels/tyres for several years I'm really pleased with my choice.  

 

For UK climate and roads Continental and *I think* Goodyear recommend that if you can only use one set of tyres all year round then Winter tyres are the best choice as they are obviously going to be better in the colder months but not too far off the pace when it warms up; my understanding is that they're still going to be better than the ditch finders that Black Circles and co will knock out for £40 a corner.

 

I found this online regarding Winter tyres when driving in Germany:

https://www.wbs-law.de/eng/road-traffic-law-eng/law-winter-tyres-germany-48118/

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 January, 2017 by penguin17

[Huskoda]

Well, Arwen there's not much more than speculation until the car actually turns up . I am genuinely interested to see what progress Skoda have made on that.

 

I have been suitably convinced (with personal experience) by the current generation of all-seasons that I will likely not continue to use two sets of wheels and tyres but just use high quality all-seasons like Nokian Weatherproofs or Michelin CrossClimates instead. The times are changing and I'm moving with them.

[Ootohere]

ARWEN, where have you read that the car is coming with 'All Weather Tyre' , is it possibly 'All Season Tyres'  or did you pay as an option for 'All Weather tyres'? 

 

PS. EDIT,

Now i see where you say you never specified them it is just what the Greenline comes with, 

So 'All Season Tyres', or as some know them 'Summer Tyres' or ECO Tyres.

Edited 26 January, 2017 by Offski

[skidpan]

When I ordered my SE 1.4 TSi in November 17" Alloy wheels with "all-season tyres" was a £150 option. But it was only for the SE and not for the Greenline. Was tempted but since the deqaler could not confirm which "all-season tyre" would be fitted I gave it a miss. If it had been one of the well respected Nokian's or the Michelin Weatherproof I would have been tempted.

[Ootohere]

Is there yet again a lost in Translation issue from German / CZ to English.

 

All Season are tyres as most vehicles come with from a factory,

All Weather are different kinds of tyres, now the likes of Michelin Cross Climate are Summer Rated with 3 peak certification.

Winter Tyres, Snow Tyres, Wet Weather Tyres, Studded Tyres, there are all sorts.

 

[skidpan]

25 minutes ago, Offski said:

Is there yet again a lost in Translation issue from German / CZ to English.

 

All Season are tyres as most vehicles come with from a factory,

All Weather are different kinds of tyres, now the likes of Michelin Cross Climate are Summer Rated with 3 peak certification.

Winter Tyres, Snow Tyres, Wet Weather Tyres, Studded Tyres, there are all sorts.

 

 

If you want to be pedantic all cars tyres could be called "All Season" since legally there is nothing to stop you using winter tyres in summer and summer tyres in winter.

 

But since the brochure shows "all season tyres" as a £150 option I think its fair to assume you will get a set of tyres that are optimised for performance over all 4 seasons rather than simply a set of summer tyres which are the standard fitment.

 

The only reason I did not further consider the option was simply the salesman could not confirm what i would be getting.

[Ootohere]

Not Pedantic then,  just back to 'Translation & terms' issues with Skoda & English Brochures or Configurators because for many years they have 

called tyres 'All Season',  ie the standard tyres.  

Some Tyre Retailers list as 'All Season 4x4'  'Summer Tyres'  'Winter Tyres'  'All Weather tyres',

its all in the wording & has been as long as i have been fitting Tyres to vehicles 'All Season' Winters, All Weathers etc.

Edited 26 January, 2017 by Offski

[skidpan]

I give up.

 

What are buyers going to get if they order the "all season tyre" option then.

 

If its nothing more than a set of common or garden "summer tyres" with "all season" moulded into the sidewalls there are going to be some very unhappy buyers.

 

I would be expecting a set of pukka "all season" tyres with the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol, anything less and would be refusing to pay.

 

Since 2010 I have had 3 sets of Kleber Quadraxers on 3 different cars. They are an excellent tyre that works well 365 days a year. They have the 3 peak mountain snowflake symbol on them and having used them in some diabolical weather on a rear wheel drive BMW I can vouch for their effectiveness. Its that type of tyre I would be expecting for the extra £150.

[ARWEN]

Thanks everyone, lots of good replies.

 

Thanks Penguin, the German law then clearly states;

 

"Winter tyres and all-season tyres with this symbol are acceptable. Many of these tyres also display a symbol of a three-peaked mountain with an inset snow flake."

 

So i will see what comes fitted on the car and post back here with some brand info etc. If they are charging an upliift on the std SE model price of £150 quid, I would imagine they should be a reasonable to good manufacturer? After all thats an EXTRA £37.50 per corner!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 January, 2017 by ARWEN

[Ootohere]

Skidpan if paying for an Option you would expect the All Season tyres would be All Weather Tyres.

 

ARWEN, in your OP you said the car comes fitted with 'All weather tyres', do you mean because you opted for these and paid extra?

[ARWEN]

Offski.

No these are supplied as standard on the SEL Greenline spec.

 

 

 

 

 

[skidpan]

I have yet to see a manufacturers website where tyres are referred to as "all weather". The three categories used by manufacturers and magazines in road tests in the UK are "summer", "all season" and "winter". Examples of "all seasons" are the Michelin Crossclimate, Kleber Quadraxer and the Goodyear Vector. It is this type of tyre I would expect to get if I had paid my £150.

 

The Greenline is the low CO/low BIK model and is fitted with low rolling resistance tyres. If it was factory fitted with "all season" tyres it would have to be re-tested and would without doubt fall into a higher emissions group loosing its BIK benefits ti business users.

 

But there is a blurring of the categories between countries with differing climates. The wife has Nokian D3 "winter" tyres on her Nissan Note on steel wheels. We bought them after reading excellent reviews and the all in price fitted to steel wheels including compatible TPMS valves was simply unbeatable. M + S and 3 peak mountain and snowflake symbol on the sidewalls. They are categorised as "winter" tyres by the UK importer but in their native Finland they are categorised as "all season".

[Ootohere]

ARWEN, started the thread so can maybe say or link where "all weather" was written and lead to posting here.

 

PS.

Michelin publicity / media are the ones that called their Cross Climate 'All Weather' and even compare to 'All Seasons'.

'Global Market' type stuff.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pENWRWbUQYY

Edited 27 January, 2017 by Offski

[ARWEN]

This is where I found the info.

 

Cut and pasted from the car spec configuration guide on Skoda website. (Dealer confirmed as being correct MY2017 UK spec)

http://cc-cloud.skoda-auto.com/CarCard/96093771

 

Wording says.....

All-weather tyres 205/50 R17 89H (NAR)

•

 

17" Drakon alloy wheels

 

[Ootohere]

Wunderba,

 there is a first for skidpad to read on a Manufacturers Website.