'The age of engine downsizing is over, says Volkswagen'.

[Ootohere]

So they are found out on the real world Co2 & NoX just as more are buying their 1.0TSI & the 1.4TSI ACT etc even the 1.4TDI's and now they move on, eg  the new 1.5 TSI's.

http://telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/age-engine-downsizing-volkswagen/

 

 

Sorry about link. 

telegraph age of engine downsizing over

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 February, 2017 by Offski

[Ryeman]

Maybe it's to do with power/weight ratio George.

If the weight goes up a 1.4 might struggle to equal a 1.5 .......perhaps there's a happy balance?.

(the link wouldn't open for me....being upside down?.)

[Ootohere]

Maybe it is to do with what was got away with outdated EU testing and then the revelation that there was 'cheating' and implausible results and irregularities and weighing 'unladen' / 'kerbside' weights & then people have the nerve to carry passengers and luggage when vehicles are driven so at a weight something heavier and not in temperature controlled buildings.

(Maybe downsizing in the weight of materials and vehicles should be continued.)

http://carthrottle.com/post/vws-boss-has-declared-that-downsizing-is-dead

Edited 4 February, 2017 by Offski

[lol-lol]

There is some truth in this and the article basically says that three cylinder petrol (turbo or non turbo) is the place to be for all but very large cars, cars that tow, in the UK in the current tax situation.  I do not think the Fiat twin air has been much of a success and it appears one cylinder too few.    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/age-engine-downsizing-says-volkswagen/  

 

"Small diesels are just not economic," he says. "The Polo is currently 30 per cent diesel, but as diesel gets more expensive [to meet RDE tests], it will not be as popular."   Herbert Diess, Volkswagen's chairman.

 

Super happy with my TCE engine in the Dacia Logan which has 600 litre boot capacity, seat 4 Adults comfortably and cruises at and indicated speed well above the UK NSL if wanted and is usually doing in the 50s MPG in extra urban driving.  The latest  version of the Renault 900 cc TCE produces 120 hp in the Twingo Sport/ Smart-Mercedes Brabus and 175 Nm of torque at 2500 rpm, plenty for a light/small car.  We should know that we must go full EV, especially for those who live/work in urban areas and VW seem to be lagging in this area compared to Nissan-Renault, Tesla.   I like the comment about German roads/drivers which I have experienced at first hand and if I regular drove their I would want something quick, maybe even a diesel !!  (with SCR of course).

 

"It is difficult to predict," he says. "Today diesel take-up is still strong, but if you look at the difference between the current [economy] cycle and RDE it is worse in Germany, where the test only requires between nine and 10 kilowatts [12 to 13bhp] to do, but on the autobahn you need 100kW [124bhp]to do 200kmh [125mph]."

 

 

  

Edited 4 February, 2017 by lol-lol

[SWBoy]

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

There is some truth in this and the article basically says that three cylinder petrol (turbo or non turbo) is the place to be for all but very large cars, cars that tow, in the UK in the current tax situation."

A tax situation that is completely changing from April 2017 where new vehicles with 0g/km CO2 will pay zero Road Tax but all other new vehicle with non-zero CO2 emissions will be equally charged at £130 per year.

 

There will also be a value based supplement for the first 5 years (IIRC) for vehicles with a value of over £40,000.

 

Goodbye to emissions related Road Tax in the UK...

[SWBoy]

1 hour ago, SWBoy said:

A tax situation that is completely changing from April 2017 where new vehicles with 0g/km CO2 will pay zero Road Tax but all other new vehicle with non-zero CO2 emissions will be equally charged at £130 per year.

 

There will also be a value based supplement for the first 5 years (IIRC) for vehicles with a value of over £40,000.

 

Goodbye to emissions related Road Tax in the UK...

Details here New vehicle tax rates from 1 April 2017

[lol-lol]

48 minutes ago, SWBoy said:

Details here New vehicle tax rates from 1 April 2017

Yes there will be a lot more money collected from diesel buyers to pay for the subsides for the buying of EV cars and their charge points.

Sound like the new VED will about £1k to ownership in the first 6 years but then car prices are rising by a couple of K anyways as many UK cars are made in Euroland ie Germany or Spain.

 

Major shake up of UK Sales over next 1, 2, 3 years due to BREXIT and VED changes.

[camelspyyder]

Is there any way of warning users when a thread has DTH* in progress before we click on it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Dacia Thread Hijack

 

 

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, camelspyyder said:

Is there any way of warning users when a thread has DTH* in progress before we click on it?

* Dacia Thread Hijack

 

Sorry my point was just how fabulous all the 3-cylinder petrol turbos are and the same applies to the Ford, GM, Peugeot and VW 3 cylinders all recognised in the International Engine Awards.....  http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/results.php?id=1        http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/results.php?id=2

 

The other point was that these little gems of engines can pull quote big cars ie 3008s, Astras, Logans, Mondeos etc.   I admit I do like to highlight, as does Whatcar?,  their view also of the Best small car under £12K.  http://www.whatcar.com/awards/best-small-car/2017-winner/dacia-sandero  Something I think they have won most years of this decade.  It was a title that Skoda would tend to win in the 90s and noughties but Skoda moved upwards in prices and vacated that area of the market.  What car also cover the car that are also cheapest to run....    http://www.whatcar.com/news/real-world-mpg-cheap-cars-that-are-cheap-to-run-3/ 

 

After more than a dozen Skodas, plus some Audis and SEATs, time has moved one.  VW is out of Motorsport, both Prototype/Le Mans and WRC, they are embroiled in a Worldwide emission scandal,  everything they say has to be taken with a pinch of salt until they are completely re-organised, even about the future of engines, cars, etc.    

 

 Now Skoda have Bradley Wiggins advertising for them, OMG.

 

 

 

[camelspyyder]

Cant say I like the sound of 3 cylinder cars. Although the original Charade G10 did have a bit of BMW in the noise, The modern ones I've tried either sound tinny or coarse and out of balance compared with a four.

 

Now 3 cylinder bikes - that's a different story. 2 or 4 stroke they nearly all sound good (unless its a Benelli 900/1130 in which case I mean pant-wettingly good)

[blueR36]

4 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Cant say I like the sound of 3 cylinder cars. Although the original Charade G10 did have a bit of BMW in the noise, The modern ones I've tried either sound tinny or coarse and out of balance compared with a four.

 

Now 3 cylinder bikes - that's a different story. 2 or 4 stroke they nearly all sound good (unless its a Benelli 900/1130 in which case I mean pant-wettingly good)

I can vouch for that I had a copper kettle Suzuki GT750 and the widow maker Kawasaki KH750 and still alive to tell the tale

[lol-lol]

1 minute ago, blueR36 said:

I can vouch for that I had a copper kettle Suzuki GT750 and the widow maker Kawasaki KH750 and still alive to tell the tale

 

I had a Kawasaki H1F 500 three cylinder two stroke and a GT 380 (4 exhaust pipes which looked wierd). 20 and 30 mpg respectively but loads of two stroke oil.  All sounded goods even without expansion chambers.  Neither much quicker than my little R3 321 cc just bought but they sounded better as standard no doubt. Middle cylinder behind front wheel nightmare to cool on air cooled bikes.

[Clunkclick]

Getting back on thread . . . I suppose VAG will be telling us next that they're returning to the use of 20w-50 engine oil for better component life and less emissions - although there's probably some truth in that.

 

N

[Clunkclick]

Even though Skoda sponsors "Le Tour", last time I was in the land of the part-time farmer, Dacia Logans and Dusters were everywhere.

 

Where does Skoda go once its fully vacated Jezzers "Reasonably priced car" territory ?

 

N

Edited 5 February, 2017 by Clunkclick

[Outrunner]

16 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Sorry my point was just how fabulous all the 3-cylinder petrol turbos are and the same applies to the Ford, GM, Peugeot and VW 3 cylinders all recognised in the International Engine Awards.....  http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/results.php?id=1        http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/results.php?id=2

 

The other point was that these little gems of engines can pull quote big cars ie 3008s, Astras, Logans, Mondeos etc.   I admit I do like to highlight, as does Whatcar?,  their view also of the Best small car under £12K.  http://www.whatcar.com/awards/best-small-car/2017-winner/dacia-sandero  Something I think they have won most years of this decade.  It was a title that Skoda would tend to win in the 90s and noughties but Skoda moved upwards in prices and vacated that area of the market.  What car also cover the car that are also cheapest to run....    http://www.whatcar.com/news/real-world-mpg-cheap-cars-that-are-cheap-to-run-3/ 

 

After more than a dozen Skodas, plus some Audis and SEATs, time has moved one.  VW is out of Motorsport, both Prototype/Le Mans and WRC, they are embroiled in a Worldwide emission scandal,  everything they say has to be taken with a pinch of salt until they are completely re-organised, even about the future of engines, cars, etc.    

 

 Now Skoda have Bradley Wiggins advertising for them, OMG.

 

 

 

 

VW as a company haven't entered Le Mans or WEC events in a long time, if ever (they did supply engines in 2000), but VAG companies have been present for a longtime. Audi withdrew this year, but Porsche, the current WEC champions are still racing.

[lol-lol]

31 minutes ago, Outrunner said:

VW as a company haven't entered Le Mans or WEC events in a long time, if ever (they did supply engines in 2000), but VAG companies have been present for a longtime. Audi withdrew this year, but Porsche, the current WEC champions are still racing.

 

(On-topic - The only acceptable engine size is zero)

 

The company is Volkswagen Audi Group and has dominated Le Mans Series (WEC) and WRC this decade but you either believe that they are strapped for cash and what to lie low for a while or they are trying to redress the VAG Diesel-gate issues and go green by transferring to Formula-e...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/37782718

 

Porsche won the internal battle with Audi for continuance in WEC when Dr Ullrich said that who did best in 2016 would continue (and the loser would get Formula-e).

 

Fortunately the great Sebastian Ogier has settled straight into the Ford and even managed to get its first win in years (2012 I think), reminds me of Rossi first win on the Yamaha after leaving Hoonda. 

 

   

However, Audi has announced that it will be ramping up its support of the team following the cessation of its World Endurance Championship programme.    Di Grassi and team-mate Daniel Abt have been on board since the first season, with both drivers taking multiple podium finishes.

Edited 5 February, 2017 by lol-lol

[moley]

17 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Sorry my point was just how fabulous all the 3-cylinder petrol turbos are and the same applies to the Ford, GM, Peugeot and VW 3 cylinders all recognised in the International Engine Awards.....  

Sure about that??

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-engines-are-among-the-most-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/

 

Quote

Petrol cars in general produce less NOx per kilometre than diesel vehicles. However, the new test shows that the Ford Focus 1.0 EcoBoost and Mini Cooper 1.5, which both feature three cylinder, turbocharged petrol engines that are said by their makers to bring “downsizing” efficiencies to drivers, produce far more NOx in real world driving than petrol vehicles with more traditional, larger engines.

As the worst performing petrol car tested to date, the Focus 1.0 EcoBoost was ranked “E”, which means it emitted between 250 and 500 milligrams per kilometre (mg/km) of NOx, compared with the current Euro 6 limit of 60mg/km for petrol cars.

 

Edited 5 February, 2017 by moley

[Ryeman]

I guess it's difficult for Skoda to revert to a simple reliable product when VW supply technically leading edge but now of questionable reliability......there being no availability of a simple engine/transmission such as a Corolla.........minimising CO2 emissions whilst retaining power and improving economy make it difficult also.

The mechanical components from VW don't lend themselves to cheapness anymore.

 

Dacia own that space 

[lol-lol]

15 minutes ago, moley said:

Sure about that??

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-engines-are-among-the-most-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/

 

 

 

The NOX on the Ford Eco-Boost engine was not that good compared to others I seem to recall ie 25 to 37 mGm/Km and the real world tests have seen many cars put out 5 to 10 times more NOX in the new test format.

 

Some diesels have been over 500 mGm/Km and even over 1 Gram/Km.  We know we need a new yard stick.  I think my Logan-Renault 900 cc TCE engine is rated at 10 mGm/Km and the Clio 1.2 16v at 15 mGm/Km so quite a lot of headroom compared to the 60 mGm/Km level. 

 

The brilliant 1.8TSI VW engine has switch from only have direct injectors to have direct and indirect to better control NOX.

 

Let us hope that Ford get a handle on this as thousands of British jobs based at Bridgend and the Dagenham research centre rely on getting this right.  I expect they have been working on this for several months now and the technical fix is in the pipeline ie reverting to indirect injection at least in part.   We do not want to see petrol cars being forced down SCR systems too and all the cost associated with that.

 

  

 

[Ryeman]

The placard on the windscreen makes no mention of NOx, this expose may change things in time however ......and a euro6 diesel might be the cleanest option.

Wouldn't that be ironic.

 

[lol-lol]

13 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

The placard on the windscreen makes no mention of NOx, this expose may change things in time however ......and a euro6 diesel might be the cleanest option.

Wouldn't that be ironic.

 

 

It would have to be compliant under the real driving condition test which seems to mean having SCR.  Only EVs are likely to be allowed to be used in big cities when NOX hits the safety limits.

[Ryeman]

1 minute ago, lol-lol said:

 

It would have to be compliant under the real driving condition test which seems to mean having SCR.  Only EVs are likely to be allowed to be used in big cities when NOX hits the safety limits.

Petrol with SCR perhaps George 

[lol-lol]

26 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Petrol with SCR perhaps George 

 

There are quite a few cars with NOX in single figures of mGm/Km and several technical solutions that get the NOX down very low.   AS well as mixing direct and indirect injection, something you can do with petrol cars but not so good for diesels.  DSG/EDC gearboxes with coast function and over such tweaks get cars down very low.  UK's official site I use when selecting new cars.  Hopefully no need to go down the petrol/SCR route before the full transitions to EVs....  

 

http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/downloads/download.aspx?rg=aug2016

 

[Dr Zoidberg]

On 2/4/2017 at 11:15, SWBoy said:

A tax situation that is completely changing from April 2017 where new vehicles with 0g/km CO2 will pay zero Road Tax but all other new vehicle with non-zero CO2 emissions will be equally charged at £130 per year.

 

There will also be a value based supplement for the first 5 years (IIRC) for vehicles with a value of over £40,000.

 

Goodbye to emissions related Road Tax in the UK...

 

This is such a dumb idea. By all means reset the tax bandings so they get the required income but leave an environmental factor in there as it works to shape people's purchasing decisions.

[lol-lol]

7 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

 

This is such a dumb idea. By all means reset the tax bandings so they get the required income but leave an environmental factor in there as it works to shape people's purchasing decisions.

 

What do you expected from this Government?

 

So the runabout with a CO2 of about 111 Gms you get wacked for £140 a year and you pay the same for a £37K Ford Mustang with a V8 engine with 300 Gm/CO2 KM!

 

Irresponsible.