timing chain rattling

[tarus007]

hi everybody I am new to BriskodaRecently 5 months back i bought a 2011 Skoda Yeti 1.2 TSI DSG. I had  a first  oil change with 45000km on meter. Just after that oil change , on start ups engine make a rattling noise. sometimes it makes that sounds and sometimes not. I really dont know whats the problem is? After browsing some internet I came to know its timing chain problem. If its a timing chain problem, what i must do? 

thanks.

[Austin 7]

Hi taurus007.  Was a genuine oil filter used when the oil was changed ?  A genuine filter may have a valve to stop oil draining back when the engine is not running, which means oil pressure rises more quickly the next time the engine is started.  Also check that the correct grade of oil was used, not too thick.  I believe the tensioner for the chain and the valve tappets (lifters) both rely on oil pressure for their operation.

[Ootohere]

There was no RECALL but there was a TPI and then upgraded parts due to the Fundamental Design & Manufacturing of the originals.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/344005-12tsi-cam-chain-problem 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/252849-12-tsi-timing-chain-recall 

Lots more thread if you just do a search, not only with the Yeti but any section that had 1.2 TSI Euro 5 Emission 

engines fitted, and not just Skoda but VW's, AUDI's & SEATS, so no Technician with the VW Group or even SErvice Desk employees should not say, 'Never heard of any issues' unless they are TOMMY, ie Deaf, Dumb & Blind kids.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/307716-skoda-yeti-12-tsi-and-famous-chain-rattle 

Edited 16 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[GladysFriday]

When I started having 1.2 tsi timing chain issues, some of the threads on this site were very useful but I couldn't find anything very up to date - ie in 2017  (although this thread seems pretty up to date!) - so here's an update based on my experience this last month or so.

 

On first noticing that my wife's 2010 Yeti 1.2 with 48k miles on the clock was sounding like a diesel on start, I suspected the timing chain. It was very erratic and stayed erratic but when it happened it was very noisy for about 5-10s and then settled down.

 

The first time I took it to my Skoda Dealer, they "investigated" and just topped up the oil - which of course did nothing. At the next service about a a month ago I insisted they kept it for a couple of days during which they witnessed the rattle themselves and agreed it was a timing chain issue. They quoted £675 for the repair.

 

I had quite a battle with the service manager to admit that this was a well-known issue and that Skoda should contribute to the cost of the repair. He was actually quite negative stating that I had no chance of getting anything out of Skoda with a 7 year old car. Even with the evidence of the TPI, he wasn't having any of it.

 

I then rang Skoda customer services and raised a complaint. I have to say that they were excellent. They liaised with the dealer to check the diagnosis and they rang every few days to update me with a progress report. All I had to do was supply them with a copy of the service history. That was my trump card I think - a full Skoda dealer service history.

 

Behind the scenes I suspect that Skoda talked to the dealer and explained the procedure as, the next time I went into them, they had prepared a goodwill claim and claimed a Skoda contribution towards the cost - which Skoda accepted. It was a very different attitude from the service manager this time.

 

Skoda paid 100% for the parts and 60% for the labour. My 40% contribution came to £178 which I think is a good deal. I asked to see the parts list and it included the chain, tensioner, guides and sprockets.

 

So the procedure seems to be that the dealer should diagnose the problem, raise either a warranty or a good will claim with Skoda who will then consider the merits of the case. Getting the dealer to raise the claim seems to be the hardest part - perseverance is required.

 

I know that some will say that Skoda should cover the whole of the cost and I have sympathy with that view but I think I got a good result given the age of the car.

 

I hope this post may help others trying to deal with a timing chain issue. I'll add it to the few threads I discovered in my research.

[IanPerry316]

Hopefully my problems are now solved so I'll pass on my experiences on this subject.

May 2011 SE with 1.2Tsi engine. Famous rattle started early 2016. In for service in April 2016 & 'problem' pointed out. Told it was the timing chain & adjustment (unspecified) would cure it. Was quoted approx. £700 at the time to part-dismantle engine & solve the problem. Declined that on the basis that they told me it wasn't a problem to carry on driving 'as is'. Noise continued on perhaps 3 out of 5 start ups, settling down after less than a minute. Eventually things came to a head when in mid-December 2017 the car wouldn't start, with the starter motor spinning furiously & sounding as if it had become detached from  the engine. Car towed to dealer & investigated. Diagnosis was that the timing chain had stretched & eventually broken, damaging the valves which in turn damaged the pistons & the top portion of the bores !! I hadn't come across this subject on the forum up to that point but when the dealer said that a new engine was required, at a cost of £2500 I started Googling PDQ. Found this problem & amassed a lot of instances of similar problems in anticipation of having to engage in a war of words with the dealer. Was extremely surprised to be told by the dealer that Skoda would supply the engine at no cost to me. The car had done 101,000 miles (!) but had been serviced by the dealer from new & I can't help but think this (& having been told that "it wasn't a problem to carry on driving 'as is'") was the subject of a lot of negotiation between the dealer & Skoda. Dealer suggested in view of the mileage I might consider a new clutch (quoted approx. £300) to which I agreed. No mention had been made up to this point of labour costs.

Car finished off this week & I picked it up this morning. I was charged a total of £723  !!!!!

Lots of comments everywhere about the standard of dealers etc. but I must say I've nothing but praise for mine (Truscotts of Helston) and certainly won't look too far afield when the time come to change my Yeti (or the wife's Citigo)

[B600]

On 16/03/2017 at 16:03, Skoffski said:

There was no RECALL but there was a TPI and then upgraded parts due to the Fundamental Design & Manufacturing of the originals.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/344005-12tsi-cam-chain-problem 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/252849-12-tsi-timing-chain-recall 

Lots more thread if you just do a search, not only with the Yeti but any section that had 1.2 TSI Euro 5 Emission 

engines fitted, and not just Skoda but VW's, AUDI's & SEATS, so no Technician with the VW Group or even SErvice Desk employees should not say, 'Never heard of any issues' unless they are TOMMY, ie Deaf, Dumb & Blind kids.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/307716-skoda-yeti-12-tsi-and-famous-chain-rattle 

There doesn't seem to be much info on the longevity if the cam chain in later models ,after the upgrade to the chain. Is it generally accepted that the upgrade resolved the issue? 

[Ootohere]

Surely the evidence of the longevity of the upgraded 1.2 tsi is the tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of 1.2 TSI produced and in VW,s, SEAT's, Skoda's and AUDI's 

since 2012 and we are now in 2019 and not that common to hear of failures.

 

That is the real world trial for components and engines.

It takes 3 years to know how engines are going to be after 3 years, and the 1.2 TSI changes were for a couple of years from 2012 until the engines changed to belts before being discontinued.

[B600]

Thanks very much for your reply Skoffski

[xman]

I'm not saying anything, got 2 cars with this engine, one (late 2011 Octavia) had a new chain kit fitted at my expense. The other (late 2013 fabia) had a turbo/actuator go last month. So I am now resorting to putting these stickers in the windows.

[Kenrw8]

My 2011 (60) 1.2tsi must be exceptional in that it has done over 88k with an original tensioner. I  bought it 30 month ago with having service log of 12 monthly oil changes which assume to be the best preventative. But I did have a tensioner kit fitted before Christmas as the car has been modified over the last 18 months with remap and exhaust to 142hp and I wanted to make sure the engine would last. Also as there was slight noise from the turbo, which was the wastegate I've replaced that replaced as a precaution.

Edited 7 January, 2019 by Kenrw8

[B600]

Mine is a early 15 plate 1.2 greentech SE sport. I'm the second owner. It's got 13k on the clock and 3 services in the book . I reckon it's a safe bet as it's got the improved parts in it ,but my better half ..... not so much. Xman are they both 1.2 tsi engines? Kenrw8 you're a brave man I recon

[Ootohere]

@B600 Is your 15 plate engine one with a timing chain or cam belt.   MY16 so mid 2015 for the change as i understand.

Maybe someone can confirm as i do not know when the change did happen with which models.

Edited 7 January, 2019 by Skoffski

[B600]

I put a picture up on the Facebook skoda owners page and it's confirmed to be a chain driven motor on there... registered in March. 

 

Edited 7 January, 2019 by B600
More info

[xman]

The new parts and secretly redesigned engine were introduced in 2012. So taking into account there may have been some old stock engines in the factory, maybe cars built after May 2012 would have the latest chain and tensioner design plus a better lubrication system as that was also modified and critically probably makes all the difference to the life of the inverted tooth chain.

 

The old engines were built with plain ignition leads without corrugrated "marten protection" trunking. However note that as those unprotected leads often didn't last the distance even without any pesky rats nibbling them, many were repaired with upgraded leads, so corrugated trunking does not necessarily mean you have the newer engine.

 

Hope that lengthy ramble helps.....

 

If your engine doesn't have a top  front left mounted filter like this then its a cam belt engine and this thread does not apply to you.

 

Note that although this engine has corrugated trunking on the ignition leads, they are not clipped to the stainless steel coolant rails, because the clips are for the original plain leads and too small. The lazy buggers didn't fit the new clips that come with the repair kit. Its the old design engine, with the weak chain, zoom in and you'll see liquid gasket on the timing cover showing this chain has also been changed. The turbo and actuator also look shiny and recently changed.

 

Basically everything that can go wrong, has, and been fixed, Alas

to no avail as on the youtube video I grabbed this from its still making the death rattle.

 

 

 

 

[B600]

This is mine. 

[Kenrw8]

This mine , so what's silver cover to right of oil filter that's missing on mine. Also TSI cover different.

 

Edited 7 January, 2019 by Kenrw8

[B600]

What cars are these pictures from ? I can't help notice that my top motor mount is different to both . That silver is just a heat shield mate

Edited 7 January, 2019 by B600
Answering a question

[Kenrw8]

Mines a f/l 60 reg (Feb 11) Fabia Elegance

[B600]

What does the f/l stand for? We looked at a fabia 1.2 tsi estate elegance on an 11 plate for £4.5k , 27k miles on it . Walked away because of  it being an early engine...

[Ootohere]

A face lift Mk2 Fabia. Different from the original Mk2 Fabia 2008-2010.

[Kenrw8]

F/l is face lift . It post dates the the previous 2010 models.

 

Got it as an VW mechanic friend said to look for one that had an oil change every 12month and not wait for the 9k or 18k interval. And this fitted that advise.

[xman]

3 hours ago, Kenrw8 said:

This mine , so what's silver cover to right of oil filter that's missing on mine. Also TSI cover different.

 

The turbo /exhaust shield is missing. Maybe because someone forgot to refit it after changing the turbo/actuator which looks new. Won't do a red hot turbo much good when rain and salt spray comes sailing through the radiator...

TSI cover is because its an early production engine.

Your oil filler cap is not screwed on properly

Another example where clips not changed with revised leads.

[Kenrw8]

xman , Thanks for the observations , with respect to the turbo heat shield I've had the turbo changed and wasn't fitted previously. Can only suspect that it wasn't refitted (was possibly not fitted) when Tony Banks fitted new stainless steel cat/ down pipes. Will get a new one.

I'll refit the oil cap, I've not had the plug leads changed so I'll get clips fitted.

 

Thanks again

 

Regards

 

Ken

Have order turbo shield from eBay, checked filler cap and is fitted correctly. Plug leads are too large for the clips which part of the pipe that runs parrallel to the engine, this pipe would need changing. Or get new plugs leads that don't have the corrugated protection.

Edited 8 January, 2019 by Kenrw8

[xman]

4 hours ago, Kenrw8 said:

. Plug leads are too large for the clips which part of the pipe that runs parrallel to the engine, this pipe would need changing. Or get new plugs leads that don't have the corrugated protection.

 

tywraps work well enough for me.

[Westbury63]

On 16/03/2017 at 09:03, e-Roottoot said:

so no Technician with the VW Group or even SErvice Desk employees should not say, 'Never heard of any issues' unless they are TOMMY, ie Deaf, Dumb & Blind kids.

 

Classic!