Emmisions "Fix" and Rip Off Britain

[WestWalesAndy]

Dealers are supposed to tell you about the software update before applying it and get the customer's consent. The update is not mandatory. Many do not even mention it and just ask the customer to sign a piece of paper which includes something like service action 23R7.  If you feel it was applied without consent, VW group have been giving out 500 quid vouchers to some owners as compensation. If the car suffers as a result, you should demand it is fixed at no cost to you with use of a free loan car if necessary. It is covered by the Skoda "Trust Building Measures" - http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo/trust-building-measure/ - and there is a closed Facebook group you can join for advice and support. The pinned post at the top of the FB group page is very informative - The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal). 

 

I  have joined the FB group and been avoiding taking my car to Fred Rees due to the risk of having the update imposed without consent. I was lucky in becoming aware of the VW problems at an early stage.

 

Good luck with sorting it out

[janesdsg]

12 minutes ago, WestWalesAndy said:

Dealers are supposed to tell you about the software update before applying it and get the customer's consent. The update is not mandatory. Many do not even mention it and just ask the customer to sign a piece of paper which includes something like service action 23R7.  If you feel it was applied without consent, VW group have been giving out 500 quid vouchers to some owners as compensation. If the car suffers as a result, you should demand it is fixed at no cost to you with use of a free loan car if necessary. It is covered by the Skoda "Trust Building Measures" - http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo/trust-building-measure/ - and there is a closed Facebook group you can join for advice and support. The pinned post at the top of the FB group page is very informative - The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal). 

 

I  have joined the FB group and been avoiding taking my car to Fred Rees due to the risk of having the update imposed without consent. I was lucky in becoming aware of the VW problems at an early stage.

 

Good luck with sorting it out

 

I've been talking to Fred Rees and Skoda Customer Services this morning.  Fred Rees told me that Skoda did not introduce the 2yr goodwill/warranty until May or June, and that I should have had a letter from Skoda about it.  I've had no letter to date.  They're going to run their diagnostics on the car this coming Friday morning - we'll see what that brings.  They also advised me to log a case with Skoda Customer Services (0333 0037 504, select the option for emissions).  I've done that and, at their request, will be sending them service history, copy of my V5, the VAT invoice for EGR work already carried out and my receipt for payment.  (Including this info for anyone else who might be thinking of going down this route).

 

While the car was under warranty I took it to Sinclair Skoda, Swansea to have work done.  The "fix" is the first time I've used Fred Rees.

 

Thanks for the link to the Trust Building Measures page, and I've signed up to The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal)

[S00perb]

3 minutes ago, janesdsg said:

 

I've been talking to Fred Rees and Skoda Customer Services this morning.  Fred Rees told me that Skoda did not introduce the 2yr goodwill/warranty until May or June, and that I should have had a letter from Skoda about it.  I've had no letter to date.  They're going to run their diagnostics on the car this coming Friday morning - we'll see what that brings.  They also advised me to log a case with Skoda Customer Services (0333 0037 504, select the option for emissions).  I've done that and, at their request, will be sending them service history, copy of my V5, the VAT invoice for EGR work already carried out and my receipt for payment.  (Including this info for anyone else who might be thinking of going down this route).

 

While the car was under warranty I took it to Sinclair Skoda, Swansea to have work done.  The "fix" is the first time I've used Fred Rees.

 

Thanks for the link to the Trust Building Measures page, and I've signed up to The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal)

 

Don't forget to report it to DVSA as well (see below)

 

Edited 10 October, 2017 by S00perb

[CWARD]

5 minutes ago, janesdsg said:

 

I've been talking to Fred Rees and Skoda Customer Services this morning.  Fred Rees told me that Skoda did not introduce the 2yr goodwill/warranty until May or June, and that I should have had a letter from Skoda about it.  I've had no letter to date.  They're going to run their diagnostics on the car this coming Friday morning - we'll see what that brings.  They also advised me to log a case with Skoda Customer Services (0333 0037 504, select the option for emissions).  I've done that and, at their request, will be sending them service history, copy of my V5, the VAT invoice for EGR work already carried out and my receipt for payment.  (Including this info for anyone else who might be thinking of going down this route).

 

While the car was under warranty I took it to Sinclair Skoda, Swansea to have work done.  The "fix" is the first time I've used Fred Rees.

 

Thanks for the link to the Trust Building Measures page, and I've signed up to The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal)

 

My brother is in the same position with an Octavia that lost power post fix which he never asked to be done. Dealer said there was no problem with it then a couple of months later the EGR packed up and they wouldn't replace it under warranty saying it was unrelated to the fix and same as you prior to the announcement of the 2 year extended warranty. He is refusing to pay for another EGR and the vehicle hasn't been driven since on advise of his solicitor who is dealing with it. Skoda UK have been less than helpful to him so let me know how you get on. 

[janesdsg]

25 minutes ago, S00perb said:

 

Don't forget to report it to DVSA as well (see below)

 

Done today.

[WestWalesAndy]

1 hour ago, janesdsg said:

 

I've been talking to Fred Rees and Skoda Customer Services this morning.  Fred Rees told me that Skoda did not introduce the 2yr goodwill/warranty until May or June, and that I should have had a letter from Skoda about it.  I've had no letter to date.  They're going to run their diagnostics on the car this coming Friday morning - we'll see what that brings.  They also advised me to log a case with Skoda Customer Services (0333 0037 504, select the option for emissions).  I've done that and, at their request, will be sending them service history, copy of my V5, the VAT invoice for EGR work already carried out and my receipt for payment.  (Including this info for anyone else who might be thinking of going down this route).

 

While the car was under warranty I took it to Sinclair Skoda, Swansea to have work done.  The "fix" is the first time I've used Fred Rees.

 

Thanks for the link to the Trust Building Measures page, and I've signed up to The Volkswagen Diesel Customer Forum (Emissions Scandal)

 

People are getting refunded by VW for EGRs, injectors and even turbos. Sometimes the ongoing costs are greater than the value of the cars and all the work has been done as "goodwill" because they cannot create a precedent and admit anything, otherwise the initial sale of 11.5 million cars would have been fraudulent. So if you keep pressing them, they should pay for all the costs. They are taking at least 6 weeks to process refunds at the moment apparently. I assume their workload will increase as more cars get the software and then fail

[Ootohere]

Found this in another Briskoda thread.

A world of difference with 'The Fixes' in the USofA.   Billions difference in VW Group spending where they get away with a Kidology Defeat Device removal.

 

[janesdsg]

Quick update: Fred Rees's diagnosis is that the EGR warning light is on because the sealant ring between the air pipe and turbo boost is faulty.   A new seal has been fitted today ... watch this space.

 

In the meantime there's a change.org petition needing signatures:

 

https://www.change.org/p/volkswagen-volkswagen-acknowledge-problems-with-the-u-k-ea189-diesel-engine-emissions-fix/fbog/64485401?recruiter=64485401&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.combo_new_control_progress_bar

 

[janesdsg]

21 hours ago, janesdsg said:

Quick update: Fred Rees's diagnosis is that the EGR warning light is on because the sealant ring between the air pipe and turbo boost is faulty.   A new seal has been fitted today ... watch this space.

 

In the meantime there's a change.org petition needing signatures:

 

https://www.change.org/p/volkswagen-volkswagen-acknowledge-problems-with-the-u-k-ea189-diesel-engine-emissions-fix/fbog/64485401?recruiter=64485401&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial.combo_new_control_progress_bar

 

 

And the warning light is back on again today .  And Fred Rees say that they recommended changing the seal as the first thing to try

[WestWalesAndy]

"First thing to 'try' " does not inspire confidence. A lot of people on the FB group have ongoing problems with EGRs and dealers often do not have much idea. The ECUs are not storing the fault codes apparently, probably because the data would be incriminating. There are reports of a new improved EGR being produced. The original was always rubbish and many failed pre the fix fiasco. There also reports that some replacement EGRs get modified with a special tool prior to fitting. Have you got an OBD reader to see what the car thinks is going on? Whatever happens, make sure you do  not pay them a penny.

[janesdsg]

I don't have an OBD reader ... what is it?

 

The car is booked in with Sinclair Skoda, Swansea for 1 Nov.  They've offered a courtesy car with no prompting from me (unlike Fred Rees) and want to have access to the car for 48 hours.  They say they'll run their own diagnostics and, if necessary, seek advice from the service gurus at Skoda Milton Keynes.  It's a pain having to go all the way to Swansea but I have no confidence in Rees's.

 

There are a few comments on various forums talking about reversing the fix, albeit at your own cost.  I'm beginning to wonder if this is the way to go once the EGR problem is sorted.

[janesdsg]

And this is the response from DVSA received this morning:

The purpose of any investigation carried out within the terms of the Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects (the Code), which has the support of the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (as amended), is to establish if the defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others.  This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom. Additionally, when investigating concerns, the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) have as a base line that the vehicle is being serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations and that the Highway Code is being adhered to. Please see attached Guide.

In this case you have a warning that something is wrong in that the warning lamp illuminates and there is no sudden and catastrophic failure with life threatening results.

We are aware that some issues have been reported post emissions fix and the Department for Transport are liaising with Volkswagen Group to ensure that these are being dealt with in an appropriate manner. The UK Government pushed for the implementation of the Trust measure to protect consumers and you may wish to refer to this in any future correspondence you have with them.

It is entirely the responsibility of Volkswagen to ensure the satisfaction of their consumers.  We encourage consumers who are not satisfied with their vehicle, the technical ‘fix’, or the service they have received, to contact Volkswagen Customer Services on 0800 333666. If this does not reasonably resolve the issue, we recommend that you contact Paul Willis (Managing Director of Volkswagen Group UK) who has assured the Department for Transport that he will properly investigate consumer complaints about this issue ([email protected]). 

With reference your concerns about EGR  failures on VAG vehicles.  The component is fairly durable and normally has a fairly long life cycle.  It is however a fairly common occurrence to replace the EGR valve during the life of a vehicle. (Not just on the VAG group of vehicles).

I hope this information is helpful. I am afraid that the DVSA is not able to offer you any further advice for resolving this matter with Volkswagen.

 

[S00perb]

7 minutes ago, janesdsg said:

And this is the response from DVSA received this morning:

The purpose of any investigation carried out within the terms of the Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects (the Code), which has the support of the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (as amended), is to establish if the defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others.  This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom. Additionally, when investigating concerns, the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) have as a base line that the vehicle is being serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations and that the Highway Code is being adhered to. Please see attached Guide.

In this case you have a warning that something is wrong in that the warning lamp illuminates and there is no sudden and catastrophic failure with life threatening results.

We are aware that some issues have been reported post emissions fix and the Department for Transport are liaising with Volkswagen Group to ensure that these are being dealt with in an appropriate manner. The UK Government pushed for the implementation of the Trust measure to protect consumers and you may wish to refer to this in any future correspondence you have with them.

It is entirely the responsibility of Volkswagen to ensure the satisfaction of their consumers.  We encourage consumers who are not satisfied with their vehicle, the technical ‘fix’, or the service they have received, to contact Volkswagen Customer Services on 0800 333666. If this does not reasonably resolve the issue, we recommend that you contact Paul Willis (Managing Director of Volkswagen Group UK) who has assured the Department for Transport that he will properly investigate consumer complaints about this issue ([email protected]). 

With reference your concerns about EGR  failures on VAG vehicles.  The component is fairly durable and normally has a fairly long life cycle.  It is however a fairly common occurrence to replace the EGR valve during the life of a vehicle. (Not just on the VAG group of vehicles).

I hope this information is helpful. I am afraid that the DVSA is not able to offer you any further advice for resolving this matter with Volkswagen.

 

Just had that this morning as well. They have obviously been told NOT to take it further.

So, I am making an appointment with my local MP to start cracking heads. Their job is to ensure the cars on our roads are safe - they are NOT doing their job

[janesdsg]

Disappointing response from DVSA to say the least.

[S00perb]

Just now, janesdsg said:

Disappointing response from DVSA to say the least.

However - don't stop sending in your complaints to them. (see sig)

 

[janesdsg]

Signing up for the class action now:

 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/reclaim/2017/01/was-your-car-affected-by-the-vw-emissions-scandal-you-could-claim-1000s-by-joining-group-lawsuit/amp

[WestWalesAndy]

1 hour ago, janesdsg said:

I don't have an OBD reader ... what is it?

 

The car is booked in with Sinclair Skoda, Swansea for 1 Nov.  They've offered a courtesy car with no prompting from me (unlike Fred Rees) and want to have access to the car for 48 hours.  They say they'll run their own diagnostics and, if necessary, seek advice from the service gurus at Skoda Milton Keynes.  It's a pain having to go all the way to Swansea but I have no confidence in Rees's.

 

There are a few comments on various forums talking about reversing the fix, albeit at your own cost.  I'm beginning to wonder if this is the way to go once the EGR problem is sorted.

If you are going to get the fix reversed, you should check you get the right version - post a question here and on the FB pages. VW have made it difficult by requiring a password to go to earlier versions so you need the right kit. Beware that remapping is not the same as reversal, the former only changes the operating parameters that the ECU uses and not the program code itself. I am not aware of anybody near here who can do it. Your best bet is probably to let Sinclair try to sort it out first - they may fix it and you may get some new replaced components, but it will probably still behave differently, eg less torque at low revs, worse fuel economy and more frequent regenerations of the DPF

[WestWalesAndy]

2 hours ago, janesdsg said:

I don't have an OBD reader ... what is it?

 

The car is booked in with Sinclair Skoda, Swansea for 1 Nov.  They've offered a courtesy car with no prompting from me (unlike Fred Rees) and want to have access to the car for 48 hours.  They say they'll run their own diagnostics and, if necessary, seek advice from the service gurus at Skoda Milton Keynes.  It's a pain having to go all the way to Swansea but I have no confidence in Rees's.

 

There are a few comments on various forums talking about reversing the fix, albeit at your own cost.  I'm beginning to wonder if this is the way to go once the EGR problem is sorted.

OBD is on board diagnostics - basically a standard plug to get access to the car's ECU. This can let you read and clear the stored fault codes and, with the right software, check the status of various paramenters such as the soot level in the DPF. I have one if you want it read. If you get your own you can monitor live data too - only costs about 10 quid for the hardware and some more for the software, best on an android tablet rather than a phone if you have on.

[WestWalesAndy]

2 hours ago, janesdsg said:

And this is the response from DVSA received this morning:

The purpose of any investigation carried out within the terms of the Code of Practice on Vehicle Safety Defects (the Code), which has the support of the General Product Safety Regulations 2005 (as amended), is to establish if the defect is a failure due to design and/or construction, which is likely to affect the safe operation of the product without prior warning to the user and may pose a significant risk to the driver, occupants and others.  This defect will be common to a number of products that have been sold for use in the United Kingdom. Additionally, when investigating concerns, the Vehicle Safety Branch (VSB) have as a base line that the vehicle is being serviced in accordance with the manufacturer’s recommendations and that the Highway Code is being adhered to. Please see attached Guide.

In this case you have a warning that something is wrong in that the warning lamp illuminates and there is no sudden and catastrophic failure with life threatening results.

We are aware that some issues have been reported post emissions fix and the Department for Transport are liaising with Volkswagen Group to ensure that these are being dealt with in an appropriate manner. The UK Government pushed for the implementation of the Trust measure to protect consumers and you may wish to refer to this in any future correspondence you have with them.

It is entirely the responsibility of Volkswagen to ensure the satisfaction of their consumers.  We encourage consumers who are not satisfied with their vehicle, the technical ‘fix’, or the service they have received, to contact Volkswagen Customer Services on 0800 333666. If this does not reasonably resolve the issue, we recommend that you contact Paul Willis (Managing Director of Volkswagen Group UK) who has assured the Department for Transport that he will properly investigate consumer complaints about this issue ([email protected]). 

With reference your concerns about EGR  failures on VAG vehicles.  The component is fairly durable and normally has a fairly long life cycle.  It is however a fairly common occurrence to replace the EGR valve during the life of a vehicle. (Not just on the VAG group of vehicles).

I hope this information is helpful. I am afraid that the DVSA is not able to offer you any further advice for resolving this matter with Volkswagen.

 

Standard letter apart from the last bit - "fairly" durable etc is gobbledygook. They are stuck between a rock  and a hard place. They know it is not true, but politically they need the fix done as they failed in allowing the Skodas to be certified in the first place with the cheat device and they need to be seen to be trying to reduce NOx. If they were honest, they would have to both  have the cars removed from the road, prosecute VW over the fraud and help get compensation for 1.2 million people in UK.  The EGR valve has a poor history of failing in operation even before the fix, which may be the main reason they created the cheat in the first place. Hopefully you get the redesigned EGR. You could try to get the old EGR and the box of the new one if they replace the current one. However that is very unlikely as they are covering their tracks and probably will not even give you documentation about the work they carry out

[janesdsg]

3 hours ago, WestWalesAndy said:

OBD is on board diagnostics - basically a standard plug to get access to the car's ECU. This can let you read and clear the stored fault codes and, with the right software, check the status of various paramenters such as the soot level in the DPF. I have one if you want it read. If you get your own you can monitor live data too - only costs about 10 quid for the hardware and some more for the software, best on an android tablet rather than a phone if you have on.

 

Thanks, Andy.  It sounds like it is something that's possibly/probably beyond my technical ability (minimal at best).  Whereabouts are you in West Wales?

[WestWalesAndy]

1 hour ago, janesdsg said:

 

Thanks, Andy.  It sounds like it is something that's possibly/probably beyond my technical ability (minimal at best).  Whereabouts are you in West Wales?

It is actually quite easy to read the codes. Deleting the fault codes sometimes helps, but in your case you want Sinclair to read what is there to help resolve the problem. I  am in Haverfordwest, just off Crowhill Rd so pop in if you are passing and it is dry.

[janesdsg]

16 hours ago, WestWalesAndy said:

It is actually quite easy to read the codes. Deleting the fault codes sometimes helps, but in your case you want Sinclair to read what is there to help resolve the problem. I  am in Haverfordwest, just off Crowhill Rd so pop in if you are passing and it is dry.

 

Thanks, Andy. 

[Jimbojetset]

I had my EGR replaced a couple of month back, no charge no reason to who was at fault. They showed me the part that came out, it was clogged to the extent the closing mechanism was not shutting.

[Jimbojetset]

On 26/06/2017 at 09:57, The Hood said:

In February I contacted Rip Off Britain regarding the emissions fix, and the treatment owners were getting after experiencing post fix "problems" such as EGR, DPF failure, increased regeneration loss of low down torque, increased fuel consumption.

 

I have recently spoken to one of their producers and they are planning to take up the topic. I have copies of all five letters sent to owners, the post fix certificate, the VW US offer. What is needed is factual content from owners who have had the fix applied, I know of two owners who had the fix applied without their permission, and others who innocently said yes and suffered. In balance there are also owners who have had the fix without problems.

 

The fix appears to alter the injector pattern lowering the combustion temperature. This reduces the low end torque, uses slightly more fuel, and produces more soot. This soot puts more strain on the EGR and DPF and causes more regenerations by the DPF so an increased tick over and fans running on after turning off the engine may be noticed. With a low mileage or fairly new vehicle there may not be an immediate problem but the EGR and DPF have a finite "life" and the fix appears to reduce this, so even if you have had the fix carried out and currently notice no change, it could prove otherwise later on, either before or after you sell the vehicle on.

 

 

If you have had the fix carried out and would not object to either adding your experience to the overall "statistics" or being contacted by R.O.B. could you please respond to this thread. As this material is likely to be used by a factual TV programme can you please stick to factual details rather than hypothetical, I have no financial interest in the outcome of the programme.

 

More than happy to go through my issues and replacement story

[Ootohere]

New letters being sent out from the Skoda / VW Group. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/440141-credit-where-its-due 

 

http://channel4.com/news/vw-software-fix-has-damaged-vehicles 

Edited 26 October, 2017 by Headinawayoffski