My friends Ex demo fabia with 5000 miles has suffered clutch failure initially the clutch pedal was floppy and couldn’t change gear when leaving the filling station. AA drove the car to the dealers about 6 miles away. Any suggestions as to cause, the garage say it’s due to regularly slipping the clutch when driving but the damage doesn’t seem consistent with that.

 

Maybe your friend needs to agree with the dealer, but point the finger at then as what happened to it while they used it as a demo?

@JJ2 - Well, 5_000 miles is way too soon for clutch damage other than due to systematic abuse. What was the mileage when your friend bought the car? Like rum4mo I'd agree that the most likely cause is the car being abused as a demonstrator.

Thanks most of the miles done as a demonstrator but clutch lining doesn’t seem to show that sort of ware more ripped to shreds with thick chunks missing 

Same thing happened to me when I've accidentally dropped from 5th to 1st before roundabout. Clutch exploded and bits stuck to pressure plate...

Brand new Fabia 1.2T with 250 miles on the clock

Edited 14 March, 20188 yr by Lyminton

@JJ2 - Well IMO that's either overheating or a manufacturing defect. I'd actually incline to the manufacturing defect because there's no sign of blueing on the flywheel.

Thanks that’s my feeling too

Well that is not a very pretty picture!

 

I wonder not only which manufacturer Skoda uses and maybe more importantly which country/plant these clutch plates or linings are made in, my wife has a 2015 1.2TSI 110PS Polo, but I think that Skoda got the task of building all these engines and so sourcing these clutches!

 

Now I am a bit concerned as today I was in the wrong gear so stumbled out in front of a large truck at a roundabout, so needed to find 1st quickly and hammer it a bit - maybe saved rear of the car but life'd the friction material of the clutch plate - I hope not!

 

Edit:- ah made in Slovakia - enough said, oh bother!

Edited 14 March, 20188 yr by rum4mo

1 hour ago, Lyminton said:

Same thing happened to me when I've accidentally dropped from 5th to 1st before roundabout. Clutch exploded and bits stuck to pressure plate...

Brand new Fabia 1.2T with 250 miles on the clock

 

Ouch! I'm surprised the synchronisers let you put it in gear!

 

There's a TPI that describes this failure mode (their example is 5th to 2nd at around 75mph). Shows the importance of losing the speed *before* shifting gear.

Edited 14 March, 20188 yr by ettlz

Wowsers!

 

I would be seeing if the dealer can admit blame as well, defo looks like it's been abused as a demonstrator!

 

Davy

How long has your friend had the car?

 

Under the Consumers Rights act 2015:-

 

Within 30 days

Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

 

Between 30 days and 6 months
If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.
In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

 

After 6 months
The burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery if you want to pursue a claim for repair or replacement.

Edited 14 March, 20188 yr by bigjohn

About 3 months 

Well, my pennies worth.

So, 13 years on the workshop floor of main dealers would say to me that was a manufacturing defect. 

 

1. When a clutch over heats, usually the friction material turns to “fibre dust”.

2. You can clearly see the friction material (from experience) is not excessively worn, like you would get with excessive clutch slip.

3. The friction material has only broken off on one side of the friction plate. 

4. The pressure plate and friction plate has no signs of excessive overheating. 

 

I would say the friction material has separated from the pressure plate due to the friction material being defective or the riveting of the friction material to the pressure plate was insufficient.

 

I have seen what happens when a wrong gear is selected, usually the spring fingers (not visible in pictures provided by OP), fail causing catastrophic pressure plate failure contributing to damage to gearbox casings etc. 

 

The dealer/Skoda needs to provide solid evidence to now prove that it was Driver error (which it doesn’t look like it was to me). 

 

These are my own opinions and recommendations. 

 

 

Check the small print in the warranty statement - I suspect it will not be covered, as most new car warranty only covers the clutch to 6k at the most. To me it looks like it has denatured for some reason, be it over speeding (4th to 2nd) or less likely slipping.

14 hours ago, ettlz said:

 

Ouch! I'm surprised the synchronisers let you put it in gear!

 

There's a TPI that describes this failure mode (their example is 5th to 2nd at around 75mph). Shows the importance of losing the speed *before* shifting gear.

I didn't even release clutch fully, revs gone up and closed rev counter. After that I couldn't change gears while the engine was on. 

5 minutes ago, octyal said:

Check the small print in the warranty statement - I suspect it will not be covered, as most new car warranty only covers the clutch to 6k at the most. To me it looks like it has denatured for some reason, be it over speeding (4th to 2nd) or less likely slipping.

I had it repaired under warranty as vehicle only just left showroom...

Thanks for all the help decided to get an independent report on the damage. 

1 hour ago, JJ2 said:

Thanks for all the help decided to get an independent report on the damage. 

That seems sensible; remember that this report is a cost that you can claim back from the dealer if it says what we all think it will (...manufacturing defect...).

On 14/03/2018 at 16:47, KenONeill said:

@JJ2 - Well IMO that's either overheating or a manufacturing defect. I'd actually incline to the manufacturing defect because there's no sign of blueing on the flywheel.

 

The picture does not show the flywheel, just the pressure plate and the centre plate, but I do agree that there is no evidence of overheating.

Certainly the centre plate has let go as a result of a high force/demand incident.

The dealer / skoda are going to sight changing down without increasing engine revs to compensate/match the new situation.

 

I have seen this many times over many years - the centre plate is suddenly subjected to a high force in reverse to its usual directional function. The condition of the clutch plate supports the theory that the car has gone from a high gear to a low gear suddenly - and without increased revs to compensate for this change.

The motion and weight of the car through the drive train has imposed the whole sudden force trying to speed up the engine. I think they will argue the case accordingly.

What we dont know is if the car was 'abused' during its demonstrator days by a bad driving technique by all who used it. (This would be near impossible to prove)

 

If you keep up with VW group nuances, I believe(?)  that there was reported evidence that a certain brand of clutch plate were prone to failure, but I cannot remember where I saw that report.

I will try to find this.

Edited 20 March, 20188 yr by 2ndskoda

My Fabia is currently at Mr. Clutch again. The clutch failed on 1st January this year and when it was removed there was a huge crack on one of the plates. Warranty is for a year but you can bet your life they are going to say it was driver error. This is the third clutch failure in 2 years (and 2 cars). The first was on a used vehicle and the principled dealer (Robinsons in Norwich) paid for replacement. The second was on the second used Fabia and the dealer (from Peterborough) only paid for the part, not the labour. A local garage fitted that one and it was that one which failed on 1st January. Of course everyone says its driver error but I had an Octavia for ten years (from new) before the Fabias and that never had a clutch change. It seems clear there is a problem with this particular part, and I will certainly approach Skoda about it. The quote already appearing in these forums is:

"Due to anticorrosion protection applied to the flywheel and the clutch, the friction value increase is much more slowly. This may lead to premature clutch failures.  Despite optimizing measures (plate lining of the clutch S308, the diaphragm spring of the pressure plate with temperature stability and decreased rpm in the transport mode), the premature heat overload of the clutch still sporadically occurs.  The clutch failures occur in the range from 10 km to several thousands km depending on how the vehicle is operated.  Measure/Production change  Parts without Anticorit have been fitted to the vehicles since CW 20/2019 (except for Fabia III, where the measure has not been implemented yet)."

Don't buy a FABIA!

Edited 24 December, 202524 Dec by theid

All very bad.

Which clutch are you referring to, which gearbox, any double mass clutch or flywheel to it?

My personal thought/advice is If you must buy a 2018 or newer car then best avoid German marques, some older VWŠkodas or even perhaps VW might be alright if you must have a German marque, thought pre-2005 for VW might be better.

Thanks for the response. I'm clueless about all things (new) car. Until 2010 I had an MGB Roadster, bought new in 1973, and I could easily manage that. "Motherboard" is a word which makes my blood run cold (I don't have a Smart phone) and all cars now have so many dodangles in the system that the chances of getting exclamation marks on your dashboard at least every month (mostly erroneous in my experience) warning of something or other needing attention that driving is becoming quite a challenge to the nervous system! Even electric windows are a pain, but you can't order a new car without them!

Until 2-3 years ago I had a 1973 MG Midget for the previous 16 years which was from the start my one and only car, used all year round including winters, (ETA: and cars sat outside, no garage) it was one of the various old over-priced and over-valued cars called "classic" that I ran for 30+ years also using them as dailies, work, commutes, holidays in UK and Europe and for club events.

I too don't have a "smart" (they're not) phone but have had to put up with the failings of mobile phones since the 1980s and TwatNavs since you had to wait and watch for the satellites to appear on the unit before it could be used (at least three out of five IIRC).

Far too many "assist", "aids" and features on cars made this century and the newer they are the worst they get.

BUT - the basics remain the same - IF you actually used your MGB up until 2010, and it wasn't like most MGBs where the owners only drove them on a Sunday and to a local show, then you will know about driver maintenance and servicing and repairs. And if you're not of the generation or macho mindset that reading instructions was unmanly (non-macho) then you'll know actually reading and referring to the Fabia's 'Owner's Manual' can help prevent unnecessary and expensive visits to the Dealership, garages, mechanics and auto-electricians.

Of course, it won't prevent manufacturer's (VW) balls-ups, design and build compromises and/or poor quality parts.

As with the MGB the Fabia will have details about the car as well as on stickers in the car or using the registration "number" most car part places will give you details of the car, engine code, gearbox type and possibly type, etc..

Your 10 years with an Octavia misled you into believing a later Octavia or VWŠkoda model might be as good but reading some posts on this site, particularly the Fabia section would have shown you differently.

Even Toyotas and Honda aren't as good as they used to be but German marques dropped any really good quality "German engineering" from around the start of this century or before with Mercs.

I am NOT a VW fan but I have to say just generally the Fabia isn't a bad car but it could be a lot better if it wasn't designed and built by VW (VWŠkoda) in the mid-80s to early 90s when you might have been laughing at the Škodas, we owned four of them and the quality actually dropped when VW first took over back then. For a while at one point the VWŠkodas were better than VW's own name brand so it seems VW might have dragged the quality down to save he embarrassment of the "cheaper" brand being better than the "better" brand.

Was your Fabia a 1.0 litre MPI perhaps, with perhaps the 5-aspeed manual gearbox or a TSI engine or dirty diesel and perhaps with a fabulous DSG gearbox?

Give us more details and we might be able to help with your current problem and set things up for retaining or selling on.

Edited 25 December, 202525 Dec by nta16
ETA:

Info on finding engine code on/in the car. - https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/497987-engine-code-and-why-its-useful-to-know

Local garage stopped fitting certain brands of clutch due to them being cheap and not lasting. I have been fitting LUK or Sachs for years on there reccomendation and have had no problems so far. There not that much more cost wise but seem to last. I would check what brand of clutch they are actually fitting in case its a cheap one

Alasdair