New Engine is not a New Engine

[Badassfabia]

Hello everyone, 

I have a question.  I discovered today that my 60 plate fabia VRS that needed an engine change because of oil consumption has exactly the same engine number.  The dealer it was bought from didn't even give me any paperwork when it had been replaced.  The fact of the matter is, I have the original paperwork with details of the engine number but any subsequent visit to this dealer, there was never a note of the engine number, just the chassis.  

 

I have moved location and the dealer i am getting to fix things that are going wrong (most recently the water pump) put the engine number on it.   I have the full history of what has been done to it including bills paid and paperwork for repairs.  Is this fishy?  I know that many on here may have had reconditioned engines as i came on here before when i first needed a new engine.  However, the paperwork states 'Engine Replaced as a gesture of goodwill.'  Are they liars or not?  When it comes to selling my hot hatch id like that paperwork that was  never given to me.  

p.s when i bought the car, it was under warranty for one year.  Engine had to be replaced 2 months after the thing was bought at 26000 miles.   And it was a struggle. 

your thoughts please.  

[vrskeith]

Think the Skoda engine replacement comes with an unstamp engine number. The Dealer doing the replacement MastervTech should make sure the new engine block is stamp with the original engine meaning the V5C document stays the same but your vehicle Skoda CS UK should hold in record the engine renewal .

This has come up several times as in the Pin Thread on Briskoda. 

The oracle George will see your thread and confirm or put right my above explanation.

[Sittingbull]

You are correct Keith, same thing happened with ours back in 2014 at point of change. A simple notation was inserted into the back of the service schedule detailing engine replaced, the mileage at point of change, who carried it out and details the vehicle engine number alongside ie cave then the number itself.

 

As far as I can tell there was no stamping on the block itself but it was definitely a new engine, complete with stickers etc denoting this. I never got the paperwork either, but kept the paperwork from Skoda UK and have the service schedule as proof. I believe things were done the way they were in order to keep owners from having to get v5c changed, plus it allowed Skoda UK to keep DVSA or whatever they're called this month out of things, meaning there was no chance of it becoming an issue that would scare the horses in terms of general public away from the brand.

 

As a coincidence, our engine also changed at 26,000. 

[Mickmartin]

I have a similar dilemma and have ad since buying the my fabia, I was told by the previous owner that it did have a full engine replacement and he explained the symptoms of the previous engine's problems and the mileage it was changed very convincingly however I don't have any proof at all that it was actually changed, No stickers in the spare wheel well or drivers door to prove so. I contacted Skoda CS but they never knew their arse from their elbow and told me I should take it to a local dealer.

 

The problem I have now that when looking to buy service parts for my car I'm stuck on what to actually buy as I'm not sure if its a CAVE or CTHE.

Edited 26 April, 2018 by Mickmartin

[vrskeith]

2 hours ago, Mickmartin said:

I have a similar dilemma and have ad since buying the my fabia, I was told by the previous owner that it did have a full engine replacement and he explained the symptoms of the previous engine's problems and the mileage it was changed very convincingly however I don't have any proof at all that it was actually changed, No stickers in the spare wheel well or drivers door to prove so. I contacted Skoda CS but they never knew their arse from their elbow and told me I should take it to a local dealer.

 

The problem I have now that when looking to buy service parts for my car I'm stuck on what to actually buy as I'm not sure if its a CAVE or CTHE.

Contact Skoda CS UK ,Vin No. Ask for service history  /warranty work done including if engine replacement. 

Edited 26 April, 2018 by vrskeith

[Badassfabia]

Thank you all for your replies.  I was only the second registered owner of the vehicle so I could see why the first petrolhead actually got shot of it before needing the replacement engine.  The engine replacement was 4 years ago.  It was recorded briefly in my service book by the next franchise that i went to that id had a new engine at 26000.  Now the mileage was not reset.  I have now done 71000 but only 45000 on the new engine.  There are/were no stickers anywhere on there when it was first done.   AT least i haven't had to top up oil ever between services.  Before i left the dealership it was bought from I asked the manager outright, "did you actually put a brand new engine into this thing?" 

The reply was:  "it was replaced using the most cost effective method."  

 

 

Edited 26 April, 2018 by Badassfabia

[Mickmartin]

I tried contacting Skodo CS uk, maybe i wa sunluck but it was a complete waste of time.

 

The lady on the phone knew nothing about recalls etc and whilst I argued my case she fobbed me off with crap every time.

Edited 26 April, 2018 by Mickmartin

[vrskeith]

1 hour ago, Mickmartin said:

I tried contacting Skodo CS uk, maybe i wa sunluck but it was a complete waste of time.

 

The lady on the phone knew nothing about recalls etc and whilst I argued my case she fobbed me off with crap every time.

Must do everything in writing to,the UK CS director . Phone message are useless. Copy of such sent to dealership MD.

[Sittingbull]

23 hours ago, Mickmartin said:

I tried contacting Skodo CS uk, maybe i wa sunluck but it was a complete waste of time.

 

The lady on the phone knew nothing about recalls etc and whilst I argued my case she fobbed me off with crap every time.

 

Mick, the customer services people will not admit to there being an issue as it would leave them wide open, which is also the reason there was no recall. The cost to replace and/ or repair the ones they have had to do runs well into the tens of thousands but they won't admit it, and they have an ability to smother it from reaching the press, motoring or otherwise.

 

In terms of engine replacements, at the time ours was done, Skoda UK and the dealer confirmed it was a like for like replacement ie CAVE for CAVE. So much will depend on what year your one is, I think I've seen it on the mk2 vRS owners page on facebook (blue estate with bonnet vents recently added?) but can't remember what year it was.

 

CAVE were used I think until late 2012 before being replaced by CTHE, so if yours is a 13 or later it should be CTHE. I think the information ought to be on the vehicle identification sticker in the handbook/ floor of the boot also denoting paint code etc.

[Sittingbull]

On 26/04/2018 at 20:11, Badassfabia said:

Thank you all for your replies.  I was only the second registered owner of the vehicle so I could see why the first petrolhead actually got shot of it before needing the replacement engine.  The engine replacement was 4 years ago.  It was recorded briefly in my service book by the next franchise that i went to that id had a new engine at 26000.  Now the mileage was not reset.  I have now done 71000 but only 45000 on the new engine.  There are/were no stickers anywhere on there when it was first done.   AT least i haven't had to top up oil ever between services.  Before i left the dealership it was bought from I asked the manager outright, "did you actually put a brand new engine into this thing?" 

The reply was:  "it was replaced using the most cost effective method."  

 

 

 

I hate to mention this because your post is about replacement engines, but there are startling similarities to what has happened to ours and a few others in terms of when the engine was changed and how many miles you have covered since without issue.

 

The issue I wanted to highlight was that of the DSG. 

 

As you have had an engine change and are beyond 60,000 miles, keep an eye out for a flashing white spanner in the PRNDS area of the multi function display of the dash. It is entirely possible and I hope is the case that you will never see the spanner, but if you do, do not accept the retailer advice that it is telling you that the car needs an inspection service. That is not the case. Skoda UK know that this flashing white spanner in the PRNDS area relates to DSG problem, commonly the Mechatronic Unit having failed, but have spectacularly failed to advise the retailer network to look out for this with the result that retailers are handing out advice which is incorrect and they don't realise.

 

Fingers and all else crossed that you never experience that particular problem, the great majority are absolutely fine. But there are an increasing number of a certain age that have had an engine change and then encountered the flashing spanner, ours included, so it's as well to provide a wee heads up.

[Ootohere]

As to Service parts for a CAVE or CTHE,  they are the same parts.

The CAVE & CTHE left the factory with the same Long Life OIl but early CAVE were coded for Fixed Servicing, All Mk2 vRS can be Fixed Serviced and use VW502 00 a of Long Life VW504 00.

 

By 2012 VW had changed the OME Spark Plugs so CAVE or CTHE Spark Plugs are the same.

Air Filters, Pollen and Fuel Filters are all the same.

 

So it is if you want 'replacement engine parts' that you want to know the Valves, Rings, Scrapers Rings, Bearing, shells rods, piston, Oil Spray Jets etc that you need to know, 

and ask Skoda UK Customer Services and they will likely ask what are they.

 

I bumped the DVLA V5 thread yesterday and it is down this page or on the next one on members experiences with asking Skoda UK about Engine Changes and numbers, 

it is like for like engine changes and Skoda UK and Dealers did not always do as they should have when 'Replacement new or refurbished engines were fitted.

It can leave a driver open to an investigation by the Police or the DVLA.   There needs to be proof behind replacement engines in vehicles.

[Badassfabia]

1 hour ago, Sittingbull said:

The issue I wanted to highlight was that of the DSG. 

 

funny you should mention that.  They're now actually trying to suggest, after my full service in January and brake change in March that i may need something doing to the gearbox.  im getting angrier all the time about the amount of money im throwing at this thing.  I had to scrutinise the bill for my water pump this week and managed to get them down to 600 for the work.  They are trying to take me for a bloody ride. 

[Ootohere]

Who is suggesting someone on the Service desk? 

What do you mean 'Suggest'  if a Service Campaign Field Action is required it should be communicated clearly to you,  'Safety Critical', 

 & it is not a maybe you can be fleeced for more dosh.

 

If your car is a CTHE 2012/13 -2014 all the DQ200 might need is Service Campaign '34H5' a Software update done free. 

No Oil change required, no expense to you,  they are not due a oil change at 40,000 miles, and if they say they are have that in writing from them.

 

Ask Skoda CS about the Service Campaign and if required.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us 

 

£600 for the water pump is fleecing you.  Take for a ride, bending you over without lube.   *? Care to name who 'they' are?*

That would be the cost with a Diagnosis of maybe 90-120 minutes, 

If they know they are changing it and the 2 belts no diagnosis required.

I will bump the thread, Water Pump / Supercharger magnetic clutch part numbers.

Edited 27 April, 2018 by Offski

[Sittingbull]

On 27/04/2018 at 21:50, Badassfabia said:

 

funny you should mention that.  They're now actually trying to suggest, after my full service in January and brake change in March that i may need something doing to the gearbox.  im getting angrier all the time about the amount of money im throwing at this thing.  I had to scrutinise the bill for my water pump this week and managed to get them down to 600 for the work.  They are trying to take me for a bloody ride. 

 

Badass, if it's only to carry out a service action as mentioned by Offski then that is one thing as that should be a one off free of charge fix that they as retailers within the network might have had notice of needing doing on the Skoda link system.

 

It's quite another thing to suggest to you that something more major than a service action wants doing such as changing the mechatronic unit and or clutch packs. Ordinarily if the Mech has gone you'll get some kind of warning on the dash, on ours it was a flashing white spanner or worst case scenario it will start jumping in and out of gear or lose gear altogether and all propulsion with it. 

 

It may well be that it needs a service campaign but it does no harm to ask the retailer or Skoda UK what they are looking to do as you are unaware of any problems with your car.

[Badassfabia]

An Oxford dealer Offski.  They sent a feedback experience from my latest visit.  My response was not polite as it began with marketing questions.  Gender, Age and occupation.  Also. when was i looking to buy a new car? I will calm down and respond with more information soon.  I don't know what is meant by service action or campaign.  

[rum4mo]

Service Actions, or Workshop Actions and Campaigns are tasks that are considered necessary to be done to that car when next in for service - they will be done FOC and when the car is booked in the service reception person should check the VIN against Skoda held records to see if anything new has turned up that relates to your car.  The only other thing might be that some actions are such low level in VW Group's eyes that if you don't complain about an issue, nothing will get done.

[mrgf]

I had a diesel engine replaced at around 50,000 miles, due to what seemed to be an oil pump fault. The chain had wrapped around the pump, starving the engine of oil. The dealer replaced the engine, under warranty with three months left. The new engine I looked for a number myself a few weeks later but on not finding it, I then asked the dealer about it. They too could not see it but suggested it was on a piece of paper stuck to the engine, like the stickers etc on parts such as wiring. It was now unreadable but they said the car would remain with its original engine number and the specs etc wire identical. They DO record any replacements etc on computer for their official records but I do wonder how long for? It will be noted that the engine has been officially replaced and it was indeed a new engine so the issue of having a stolen one or a different one will not arise, hopefully. The DVSA, VOSA or any other body can only say they can't find a number, Skoda can prove they swapped the engine so as ling as I am not stupid enough to fit a dodgy replacement myself, I should be safe. As for receipt, I had a printed page stating the engine was replaced under warranty. No reasoning, pricing, etc they just kept it to the bare minimum. I think BMW do this as they don't like to admit faults, etc as it opens up other avenues for complaint!

 

Oh, BMW... They are up sugar creek now! Takes the heat off VW for a while... 

[Ootohere]

There are numbers on the block not just the stickers and bar codes.

The DVSA officers and Police Examiners know where, as do most technicians.  Not all oddly.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/324108-replacement-engines-engine-numbers-v5-dvla-skoda-uk-what-happens 

 

Skoda records are not to be trusted and there are mk2 Fabia vRS on their 2nd replacement engine.  so that means the 3rd since manufactured.

Car was only introduced in 2010 and having it's birthday this month.

'Cars get stolen just for the engines, the rest gets sold as parts,  not just these but many manufacturers cars / models'.

Edited 10 May, 2018 by Offski