Skoda Fabia vrs 1.4 tsi

[Keck]

Hi,

 

Hoping i I can be advised by anyone who is more knowledgable than myself.

 

i recently had an engine management light come on in my Skoda Fabia vrs 1-4 tsi year 2010 with 61,000 on the clock. I took this to a garage near where I work as the light came on the way to work. No noises etc I had a scheduled mot and service and was told they would take a look, the garage rang me up around midday to inform me they cleared the codes in the car they have completed the mot new brakes and two new tyres was needed to pass. Standard stuff so approved the work was told they just had to service my car and I could pick up.

So they serviced the car changed the fuel filter and the car wouldn’t start. They kept the car over the weekend to see if they could get it started after they couldn’t get the car started after thoughts of a fuel filter or injector issue It was transferred to an official Skoda garage who diagnosed the issue as a timing issue upon testing of the head gasket they deemed the chain to have jumped around 7 teeth. Now will need a new timing chain, new valves due to the damage of the timing going out as I have rac platinum warranty cover I have gone through the rac and the inspector dubbed the vehicle issue as wear and tear and claimed the below

 

 is due to wear and deterioration of the timing chain causing loss of timing and valve to piston contact.

There would have been distinct evidence in the form of a severe engine noise and being very rattling and this would have been happening for a period of time prior to this failure.

We would consider therefore that the substantial drive on damage caused if it had been caught at an early stage would be just the timing assembly being required whereas now a substantial engine rebuild is required but possibly depending on the availability of the crankshaft sprocket a new engine may be required.

 

as none of the above noises happened my only assumption is upon attempt to restart the car by the garage who mot and serviced it the engine has been further damaged however with the timing chain I’m confused on how it can be classed as wear and tear on the car at 61,000 miles the car has been serviced every year. Also this car regularly goes through 3-5 litres of oil a month after a long investigation i have contacted Skoda in regard to the above.

 

I am not very knowledgable when it comes to cars and any input anyone may have would be massively

appricated I’m not sure where I stand but feel a little hard done by to be told I am liable for a timing chain issue when I have received a warning light and took my car to a garage.

 

thanks

keck

[vrskeith]

Doesn't have a full Skoda service history?

Skoda advise the timing chain be renewed after a set mileage in the manual / service schedule I believe.

 

George will be along soon to guide you through this with his knowledge.

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

So the Engine or EPC light might have just been a spark plug. 

Then draining and changing the oil and letting drain can cause an issue with the chain tensioner. 

See 'Lucifers ultimate guide' pinned at the top of the section.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/421365-links-to-lucifers-ultimate-guide-to-14-tsi-twincharger-engines 

 

Sorry but now a big issue when the basics should have been checked first, Error Codes;  to see if Misfires, maybe plugs maybe Water Pump / Magnetic Clutch for Supercharger & Limp Mode, maybe Fuel Pressure. 

Then plugs out etc etc 

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Offski

[Ootohere]

PS   Ask the RAC Warranty Examiner if he / she knows about the timing chain tensioner and draining the oil and leaving draining and then the issue this can cause.

As to the timing chain that can be measured.

As is done with the CTHE engines from 2012, they do have wear issues. 

 

*They the RAC covered the car with a Warranty so if a car with 61,000 miles has 'Wear and Tear', so what, 

that is tough titty on them, the car is 8 years old, low mileage, RAC should know the issues as VW / Skoda do.

they need to pay up and shur up.*

 

 

You do not say how many miles a month you go while the engine uses 3.-5 litres of oil, but unless you do 8,000 - 10,000 miles a month the engine was gubbed. 

 

So if you had no knowledge of any issues, and you have a warranty it will be a new engine required. 'Reburbished / new from Skoda',  £3,500-£4,000 bill to the RAC Warranty Company.

No way a 'Rebuild' is an economic repair.

 

??

Which Skoda Dealership now has the car and has done the diagnosis?   

 

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Offski

[Ootohere]

PPS

Unreal that Warranty Providers sell a Warranty, the RAC in Particular and say the car has a 61 point check, then say wear and tear etc.

http://onlyrevo.com/support/sales/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues 

 

My red 2010 vRS was traded in and then was offered for sale as a RAC Approved Used car and with a RAC Warranty and was on sale a few minutes after it arrived at the dealers.

July / August 2017, 71,000 miles.

Had the RAC inspection done seemingly as soon as it was with the seller.....  Warranty and Roadside assistance.   Amazeballs.

 

??

Was it a RAC Approved Used Car with a RAC Warranty?

 

RAC Approved Used Car Dealerships _ Buying a Car _ RAC.mhtml

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Offski

[Keck]

Hi Vrs Kieth and Offski,

 

Firstly thank you for your responses. I do appreciate your input and offering of assistance when it comes to my recent problem. 

 

I have been an owner of RAC breakdown cover and never had any issues minus the engine light coming on and the car being noticeably worse in performance. I was told this was due to being in limp mode if memory serves me correctly.

 

Vrs Keith - I bought the car in 2016 which had been serviced and MOt'd before the sale I then got a service in 2017 and 2018 but in 2018 the car never started after the service.  in 2017 the mileage was 47,684 and the was bought at around 33,000 i believe (not 100% but was around this figure) again in August so I have followed the yearly service the RAC have been sent this information and have had no issues with it or queried it so I am assuming its fine (probably a mistake on my part)

 

Offski - Thanks for providing that link it is very helpful I have researched my issue and it a known and big issue upon contacting Skdoa they asked me to get the diagnostic from a skoda official garage which I took my car too after it wouldn't start. I am goign to call them in regards today to see if they can offer any help on the matter as I do love my fabia vrs and was considering upgrading to an Octavia this year, my understanding is that the garage due to the car not starting thought it was the fuel injector or the regulator, as this was a Friday it was kept over the weekend to try and get the car started again as it now has also failed its mot as couldn't restart to retest :(

 

 

PS   Ask the RAC Warranty Examiner if he / she knows about the timing chain tensioner and draining the oil and leaving draining and then the issue this can cause.

As to the timing chain that can be measured.

As is done with the CTHE engines from 2012, they do have wear issues. 

 

*They the RAC covered the car with a Warranty so if a car with 61,000 miles has 'Wear and Tear', so what, 

that is tough titty on them, the car is 8 years old, low mileage, RAC should know the issues as VW / Skoda do.

they need to pay up and shur up.*

 

Thanks for the advice I am going to call them on my first break so will ensure I mention this. I have mentioned that the timing chain should last nearly double if not the lifetime of the car but they claim i have caused more damage to the engine due to ignoring severe warning signs. This clearly was not the case as I did YouTube the noise in question when accused and it was a ridiculously loud noise that to me would of thought I could risk my life. Plus with RAc cover I would of stopped and called these at no extra cost to myself not risk my life The claim my warranty doesn't cover wear and tear but surely the timing chain going after 61,000 mile is a mechanical issue and with all the skoda / VW issues mentioned and the company knowing about this issue i am sure they cant say i am liable for the chain? Even if they do not pay for the excess damage.

 

In regards to mileage five days a week I travel around 40 miles and then not a lot on the weekend unless I am going away such as this year I have drove to, Blackpool for a weekend away

 

so in monthly this would calculate 1000 a month I have owned the car 24 month and completed 28,000 mile ish so can estimate on average  1,200 per month 

 

Which Skoda Dealership now has the car and has done the diagnosis

 

Vastecch in  teeside - https://www.thevasstech.com/teesside/

 

they have been very helpful throughout mainly dealing with a receptionist named Emma so I have no issues with them or at this moment Skoda

 

My warranty will only cover £1000 of the damage although I can claim up to 8 times I cant for a single claim another loophole I was never told about.

 

The RAc are using a third party inspector and anytime I query this I get the answer 'i am just going off what the inspecting company have reported' 

 

Again gents the support and advice and knowledge provided has been greatly welcomed and I am hoping i can resolve with RAC and hopeful skoda footing some of the bill due to the known issue and I can continue my potential shopping for an octavia

 

Thanks
Keck

 

[Keck]

UPDATE

 

Vasstech have emailed to now say they would recommend a new engine rebuild. Please see below:

 

The wear on the crank shaft sprocket that has been mentioned by the engineer is where the chain locates at the bottom of the engine. It’s like a bike chain, there is a cog at each end that chain runs along. The wear that has happened is to the teeth that hold the chain in place, so there is a possibility that if repaired that the chain may slip in future.

 

Also mentioned as well is wear on the camshaft lobes. The lobes are egg shaped and these are what open and close the valves. The wear that has been noticed will affect the operation on the valves. To carry out a ‘blanket’ repair the best course of action is a replacement engine, as this will also hopefully combat the oil burning issue you mentioned.

 

Thanks
Keck

[Kobayashi]

Unfortunately there are still 'many out there' 2nd Hand / 3rd Hand that might still not have had the oil fixes done.

Some had early warranty work on the CAVE 2010-2012 that didnt work or the damage was already done (it became 5 fixes) , for some oil fixes worked ....

Some were refused & went to court, never to be heard from again, others paid for the fixes themselves with minor contributions sometimes from the dealer....

The CTHE 2012-2014 had problems also & that was supposed to be solved.

 

Skoda knew about the problem and left us to fend for ourselves and thats what brought me to this forum,

 

The onus it seems is now on consumers to prove that a car doesnt have known issues, but unfortunately it does. 

 

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/skoda/fabia-vrs-2010/?section=good

 

 

[Ootohere]

There were only 1,800 CAVE engine Skoda in the UK and with the rate of failure Skoda UK should have bought many back and scrapped them.

They did buy some back and put them back into the trade, unfixed in many cases.

It was and is a scandal.  Some cars with a 3rd engine in since they came to the UK only in 2010.

 

Not only Skoda obviously, the twinchargers in SEAT's, VW's & Audi's 2009-2012, and some 2012/13 on.  

Known issues because VW had to change the engines CAVE to CTHE and then even the CTHE early on had issues, and now can have Timing Chain issues.

 

[Keck]

Hi Kobayashia,

 

Thanks for the input and information provided. Did you have a similar issue and did you get any resolve? I currently have £3000 outstanding on the car from motonovo finance

 

I guess i am wondering If the timing chain is the issue which hasn't been highlighted in any service and the warranty cover this as mechanical they essentially should pay out? Once I call Skoda i am sure I will have more info but with this I assume that the recall cost would of outwayed the warranty fixes in their eyes so have just left us to deal with these problems? I am hoping as a reputable company they will acknowledge the problem and will replace the engine (I know this is most likely wishful thinking) 

 

I am not sure where i stand in terms of the warranty, and the engine issues, plus the garages input to attempt to fix but may of caused more harm.

 

My argument will be the timing chain is the primary issue and as its only done 61,000 is within the lifetime of the chain so should be replaced at the cost of the warranty which i will encourage to chase Skoda about also I will then ask for the other costs to be paid by Skoda or the garage if the issue of my engine been destroyed is due to the garage then where legally do I stand? It feels like I may have no leg to stand on.

 

Thanks

Keck

[Ootohere]

There is no 'RECALL',    Skoda VW Never Recalled any Twinchargers, or even did a Service Campaign.

They never even accepted a problem publicly.

Best not get into that one, all they did was discontinue the CAVE 1.4 TSI 132 kw Twinchargers production late Summer 2012.

 

As to the Timing change issue, few and far between with Mk2 Fabia vRS 2010-2012,  more common now with the 1,100 CTHE engine cars.

Those with one might need to pay attention to that potential issue.

 

?

Did you have all the T&C's of the Warranty when you bought it, did you know you had a £1,000 limit?

 

You are facing a big problem sadly. Never an easy answer.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/440772-nightmare-fabia-vrs-engine-replacement-needed 

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Offski

[Kobayashi]

Hi i was at the end of warranty in 2015-16 monitoring the situation, one burnt spark plug and 0.5L of oil every nearly every fuel top up was cause for concern.

28,000 miles done on top of original 8000 when bought, and around 50 Litres of oil for 4 years (28,000 miles!)

 

As offski says timing chains not so much a problem on the CAVE but is a known VAG problem over the years.... and tensioner can go wrong when changing the oil if service engineer not paying full attention aware / careful. 

 

The dealer in my case basically contributed £200 to a £750+ oil fix bill. Nothing in your league of costs so i really feel for you.

Proving who has done what wrong is so complicated, one known (or unknown fault) leads to another, (Even though you didnt know there was a known fault) so the warranty becomes less able to enforce. More wiggle room for the warranty provider...

 

http://www.adamlewin.co.uk/vw-mk5-golf-tsi-engine-timing-chain-problem/

 

 

 

 

[Keck]

Hi Gents,

 

I have just had a detailed call from the warranty company due to the nature of the issue faced by their inspector they deemed the cause as mentioned in above comments.

 

The RAC now said that at 61,000 miles this chain is supposed to be running fine regardless of 'wear and tear' and now approve the £1000 contribution. they highlighted the below issues.

 

The engine itself has blown and caused the damage seen by the inspector as I was driving the car and the engine management light has come on they have confirmed int he condition the vehicle was inspected it was impossible to drive due to the damage therefor the damage has happened while not in my care.

 

The car had an MOT on the morning and then was serviced, the MOT mileage is 7 miles less than the vehicle reported inspection and therefore they have advised me to enquire on this as when i took the car in it was driving although rough and in limp mode i never received the car back in a driving state, the timing of the car skipped completely. So it seems that either they test drove the car and it went wrong or those miles could be from potentially the MOT or service work.

 

I have been advised to go to the garage ask how the issue happened when did it no longer start and how did it happen, I am not sure again where i would stand on this as this but I didn't get the car back in a working condition.

 

The timing chain itself is not on the service requirement, therefore wouldn't need to of been checked as mentioned by Offski above

 

Welcome.

So the Engine or EPC light might have just been a spark plug. 

Then draining and changing the oil and letting drain can cause an issue with the chain tensioner. 

See 'Lucifers ultimate guide' pinned at the top of the section.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/421365-links-to-lucifers-ultimate-guide-to-14-tsi-twincharger-engines 

 

Sorry but now a big issue when the basics should have been checked first, Error Codes;  to see if Misfires, maybe plugs maybe Water Pump / Magnetic Clutch for Supercharger & Limp Mode, maybe Fuel Pressure. 

Then plugs out etc etc 

 

It seems the service has caused the problem and in turn caused the damage, I will speak to the garage in regards to the issue and what they can offer me I am wondering if I have a leg to stand on potentially on a liability insurance?

 

Thanks
Paul

 

 

[Kobayashi]

2 hours ago, Keck said:

Hi Gents,

 

The RAC now said that at 61,000 miles this chain is supposed to be running fine regardless of 'wear and tear' and now approve the £1000 contribution. they highlighted the below issues.

 

It seems the service has caused the problem and in turn caused the damage, I will speak to the garage in regards to the issue and what they can offer me I am wondering if I have a leg to stand on potentially on a liability insurance?

 

Thanks
Paul

 

 

Ask the workshop when they did the oil change did they allow ALL the oil to drain completely? Im no expert but if they did this they have likely done it wrong.

Hopefully someone with better tech knowledge can explain...

[Keck]

Hi kobayshi,

 

i will be calling them tomorrow to discuss as feel I am now having buy a second hand engine for £2000 then footing the bill of fitting it also, so I would need to understand what has happened before I make a £3000 decision on a car worth around £6000 at private sell price. As they told me

It was a fuel filter change that caused t my belief is that they may well have but I will certainly ask these questions. Thanks again for your input with a known issue with the car and no recall is Skoda not at part fault on mine and what seems to be many others engine chains, oil burns and other problems faced?

 

im very worried to invest such amounts of money for the same engine that could be riddled with problems I have found one with a 12 month warranty so bit of safety.

 

Could the garage be at fault at all and may foot some of the costs?

 

thanks 

keck

[Ootohere]

I would worry about buying a second hand engine.  There is crap ones, ones with guarantees, but then you are paying someone to fit it, and if wrong remove it again.

 

?

Who has the one for sale with the 12 Month Guarantee.  What are they saying about it, Age, Miles, what car out of, a Skoda, VW, SEAT or Audi?

Was it a crashed car, or one broken for other reasons, if you get the cars registration and VIN you can chack the first 3 years warranty maybe longer, did it have the breather mod, the software update, the Oil Spray Jets updated. 

'Buyer beware',  be sure of the sellers and their knowledge.

 

When was your car built,

there are 2 different ECU's / Software 2010-2011.

 

OT, but has your cars DSG had the Service campaign '34F7' carried out, 

there should be a sticker in the spare tyre well if done.

& has your car had the Water Pump replaced?

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Offski

[Keck]

Hi offski,

 

I am very concerned about buying a second hand engine due to the spots I have seen on here and the concerns over the engines raised by multiple I assume customers in the past. I feel I may be left with no option. however as a new engine is £8000 the car itself isn’t worth that value. 

 

The only info I have so far is

 

Notes: hi paul its sadiq i spoke to you regarding your engine that you requested ... well like i said the engine is done 46000 and it comes with a 12 month warranty and delivered

 

i am going to ask all of the questions highlighted from you.

 

do I have any other options in your opinion based on the car itself from Skoda and the two separate vehicle inspections both saying the timing chain is an issue at only 61,000 or maybe with the garage who had my car when the problems arose? 

 

I was thinking either to pay the car finance remaining and sell for spares and repairs or fix with second hand engine keep until the warranty on it is nearly finished then swap in for a new car. 

 

Thanks again offski your input has already put me in a much greater position than previous.

 

thanks

paul

[Ootohere]

?

How much is this engine.

What is the companies name?   What reviews do they get?

There was a dodgy reconditioned engine seller in Scotland & there still is, they just change the names of the company.

 

 

A new engine in the crate from VW is under £3,500 (refinished as they fit) and the RAC could have Skoda UK supply that.

Fitting is under £1,000.

& the garage that messed up should be contributing.    Not fitting it though....

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Offski

[Keck]

The garage is find a part Norwich.co.uk I have asked vasstech if they can advise and they said after a quick look seems not much is about essentially which makes sense on this engine as it’s discontinued.

 

in terms of the dodgey seller thanks for letting me know The offer came through find a part I placed an ad on their but now I have received an update on the engine needs from vasstech I was going to provide another ad with the information.

 

i have been quoted £7000 - £8000 for the new engine from vasstech might be worth me asking Skoda. 

 

I am dealing with a garage named vasstech which is Skoda approved however are not a part of the Skoda group so Skoda won’t investigate further to see if the engine is faulty itself.  However the rac have agreed due to the timing chain they will pay up to £1000 as liability of the chain however this will need to be invoiced by the garage to them and I will be liable for the rest and I will be calling the garage who didnmt

service tomorrow to ask about the questions raised by the inspecting company

 

would a new engine from Skoda be under warranty I.e x amount of miles?

 

thanks again

keck

[Ootohere]

Genuine parts have a 2 year warranty .   It is called a 'Base Engine', comes from VW, in a box,

there are ones in the UK,. but when needs must they can be in the UK in under a week.

 

With a Skoda / VW Group dealership fitting there is the 2 year manufacturers warranty on the parts and the 12 months labour guarantee.

 

They quote a lot (inflated parts and labour ) when Skoda UK are making a 'Gesture / Contribution and owners paying a percentage.

the whole thing is kidology.   

[Kobayashi]

Can Skoda UK not find one for you from VW, best option really if saving the car is priority

 

Seen a few on Ebay such as these, if this is the photo of it, it has had the breather pipe mod (1 of the fixes), CTHE engine, still not cheap though at £2.5K

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKODA-FABIA-VRS-VW-POLO-6R-GTI-IBIZA-CUPRA-1-4-TSI-CTH-CTHE-ENGINE-25K-PROOF/332530634345?hash=item4d6c5ece69:g:anIAAOSwLjxaaFRM

[Ootohere]

If a CTHE required a Breather Mod i would avoid like the plaque.

Reason being there were early CTHE,  Late 2012 / early 2013 that still had issues as a couple of members here know, 

they had CAVE vRS that got engines replaced, then bought CTHE's and still had oil users.

One member had a CTHE that required a Breather mod which is odd as the new breathers should have been all sorted out at production, 

and they had a software update, then the Oil Squirter update, all on a CTHE.

 

So if getting a CTHE you want one built from later in 2013.

Then there are those with the timing chain issue.

 

Best is get a 'New base engine', or one rebuilt by a Engine Specialist / Tuner with a good reputation IMHO.

[Keck]

Hi Gents,

 

I have contacted the garage and Skoda who passed me onto Derek slack as an official skoda retailer. 

 

Garage are getting back to me an update of increase mileage the error codes. the oilage questions the car had low oil on arrival etc 

 

Skoda have said there was only a service campaign for my car on the Gearbox she explained fairly fast but something about the car was freewheeling.

 

 The person is getting me a callback with a more knowledgeable person in regards to the engine i need (the base engine) thanks again Offksi she did say she wasn't familiar with this so will get more info back to me.

 

 I asked them where Skoda stand with the CAV 180 BHP engine and my obvious concern into buying this engine that has know faults. They have said they will get back to me in regards.

 

I have emailed the engine questions to the garage with the used engine. Car Value of around £5500 book price probably £4500 to £5000 on trade in maybe might be worth writing it off? I love my skoda fabia but I cant afford these fixes reoccurring. This has depleted my funds I had for saving for a house luckily I had been saving this year.

 

Thanks Again Gents
Keck