Hi all, this is my first post on here, I'm just looking for some info as I'm considering an Octavia vRS my next car.

 

I presently drive a Honda Accord type R - excellent car that's served me very well for a long time, however it's starting to show it's age now as my daily driver and the lack of isofix/long buckles poses additional problems for me with my second child on their way this year.

 

Having looked at a number of Octavias online and test driven one of them (67 plate 230) there's no question that they're good value and very practical.

 

The one thing that's a bit of a negative is they're not quite as high on power as I'd like, not really a big step up from what I've got considering the additional weight.  However, from everything I've read they're just a remap away from a safe 280-300bhp, which I would imagine would be more than enough.

 

The one thing with that though is they're still fwd and I'm very aware trying to put decent power down in a fwd car is pointless without a decent dif!

My accord has a mechanical LSD and even on a nasp engine, producing less torque you can feel it kick in.  I don't really fancy more torque and no LSD.

 

So, question is which cars came with which differentials?

 

I've read articles starting that the upgrade pack from a 220 to a 230 gave it an LSD.

I've also read that the upgrade from 230 to 245 included an LSD

 

So, dues that mean the 230 got the unit when it was the upgrade model but then didn't get it when it was the 'standard' vRS?  If so, when did the 230 become 'standard' as I'd only want an older one.

Or, are there 3 types of differential out there

220 with open dif

230 with LSD type 1

245 with better LSD type 2

 

I can't seem to find clarity on this anywhere.

 

I guess the other question is whether these electro mechanical differentials are any good?  You can buy a mechanical quaife differential for under £800, so is it a better option to spend less, get a 220 and retrofit one of those?

 

It's not set in stone that I'm getting a vRS, however it's definitely a top contender.  Also considering sacrificing space, economy and value for RWD, power and interior to go for a BMW M135i.

 

Thanks,

 

Alex.

Another small question, is it only leather seats that come heated?

 

Heated seats would be nice but the leather on anything other than a brand new vRS looks pretty terrible.

Do I have to give up on the idea of getting bum warmers?

I believe that VAQ diff came on the pre facelift 230 as an upgrade to better manage the power. U can tell these mostly from them having the black pack with the black exhaust tips. 

 

The diff then disappeared on the 230 on the fl and reappeared on the 245 edition again identified with black pack and black exhaust tips on the fl etc. It then became standard fit with 245 engine, when the 230 engine was dropped.

 

Im not sure exactly what the timings/years were on these changes but i’m sure someone on here can shed more light.

 

Amazing cars btw i’ve just had my my19 245 delivered on Friday. waited 4 months for it and was worth the wait! The diff works brilliantly considering the power it needs to manage. without it the car would be a nightmare to drive i think.  

A rough time line of the Mk3 vRS petrols

 

Prefacelift 220bhp

Prefacelift 230bhp (effectively a special edition with extras)

Facelift 230bhp

Facelift '245', 245bhp (effectively a special edition with extras)

Facelift 245bhp

Facelift '245 Challenge', 245bhp (a special edition with extras)

 

All 245bhp versions get the DQ380 7 speed wet clutch DSG if you opt for an auto, others are the older DQ250 6 speed.

 

All 245bhp versions get VAQ electronic diff, as does the prefacelift 230bhp.

 

The 'special edition' cars get extras such as the 19" Xtrem alloys, heated electric seats, black pack, extra infotainment screens, etc.

 

The non specials get 18" wheels, non electric seats, etc.

Out of interest, what's the weight difference between the Type R and Octy vRS? 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Another small question, is it only leather seats that come heated?

 

Heated seats would be nice but the leather on anything other than a brand new vRS looks pretty terrible.

Do I have to give up on the idea of getting bum warmers?

The 'special editions' that got the alcantara seats are heated too, as well as being electric, driver memory and 4 way adjustable lumbar. These appeared in the 245 special and the 245 challenge, not 100% sure on the prefacelift 230. 

 

The 245s are where things get really confused because it started with a limited run car called a 'vRS 245', then the 230 was dropped and the standard vRS became 245bhp but without all the added extras of the limited run car but absolutely everyone calls these cars 'a 245' as well, even though they're different to the original one. 

1 hour ago, Swirly182 said:

Out of interest, what's the weight difference between the Type R and Octy vRS? 

 

The accord is about 1300kg and 209bhp.  Nowhere near the torque peak but obviously completely different distribution, rev range and gearing to go with it.  I think it's probably comparible to a vRS in a straight line flat out, but more nimble in the corners.

But...  Not as lazy/easy a drive obviously, you have to really work the engine to get the best out of it.

Edited 28 April, 20197 yr by Alex-W

It all sounds very confusing with the versions.

 

Essentially subs like if it was a special edition, it got the diff.

If it was standard, it didn't.

Unless it's a 245 then it gets it.

 

For the money you'd have thought they'd just make it standard on all.

2 minutes ago, Alex-W said:

It all sounds very confusing with the versions.

 

Essentially subs like if it was a special edition, it got the diff.

If it was standard, it didn't.

Unless it's a 245 then it gets it.

 

For the money you'd have thought they'd just make it standard on all.

 

It was ok until the facelift and VW suddenly remembered they needed to sort their **** out for WLTP regs and all sorts of specials were being released over the space of a couple of years.

 

If it's the VAQ diff you want specifically above all else;

 

Any 245bhp model

230bhp pre facelift

 

Personally, i'd also say the 7 speed DQ380 gearbox is worth seeking out over the 6 speed DQ250 if you're considering autos, which then limits you to 245bhp cars.

I'm not overly fussed between manual Vs auto, I kinda just want the best long term solution...

With the BMWs I'm shall looking at in primarily looking at auto as they have the fk8 box which is better in all ways, speed, ratios and economy, reliability.

Plus I hear the BMW manual isn't that great.

 

With the dsg boxes they seen to be mixed views, generally that they drive well but ultimately will break and cost a load to rectify, which puts me off.

So, as I am looking for a long term (10 years) daily, I'm thinking manual would be better.  The one I drove the other week was a manual and seemed smooth.

As above, the VAQ diff came with the PFL 230 and the FL 245. DSG gearboxes are great and the early failure rates (DQ200 notwithstanding) disappeared by the end of the last decade but of course the rumours prevail and people forget the DSG came out 16 years ago and VAG have had it down for some time now. The 8 speed auto in the BMW has also had its issues so the best bet is for you to buy the car that you like, not the one that you hear the least tails about on the internet.

 

2 hours ago, Alex-W said:

Another small question, is it only leather seats that come heated?

 

Heated seats would be nice but the leather on anything other than a brand new vRS looks pretty terrible.

Do I have to give up on the idea of getting bum warmers?

 

Heated seats came with all of them but came as standard with leather. Don’t know what cars you’ve been looking at with leather?

 

 

107,000 miles on these seats and they are like new. Would never get a PFL without leather, the standard seats were not nice indeed.

1 minute ago, Alex-W said:

I'm not overly fussed between manual Vs auto, I kinda just want the best long term solution...

With the BMWs I'm shall looking at in primarily looking at auto as they have the fk8 box which is better in all ways, speed, ratios and economy, reliability.

Plus I hear the BMW manual isn't that great.

 

With the dsg boxes they seen to be mixed views, generally that they drive well but ultimately will break and cost a load to rectify, which puts me off.

So, as I am looking for a long term (10 years) daily, I'm thinking manual would be better.  The one I drove the other week was a manual and seemed smooth.

There are a lot of different DSG boxes, with different tech and different levels of reliability. The DS250s and DQ380s you'll find on the vRS are generally reliable if serviced correctly, with the required oil changes. My understanding is a lot of the negative comments relate to the dry clutch 7 speed box found in lower torque cars and the mechatronic units in the earliest generations of the boxes. That said, for something to rely on for 10 years, the comparative simplicity of a manual has it's appeals.

Greetings Alex 

 

My 1992 Accord was probably one of the best cars I've owned.  Had a bad habit of blowing its brake light, and we never found out why, but that was decades ago, and I've forgiven it.

 

I've a three year old 220 TSI DSG, mapped (Revo) to around the 300bhp mark.  It's the six speed DQ250 wet clutch DSG, bog standard diff.  My tyre shredding days are long gone, and I've no doubt I need to be a bit more considerate with the loud pedal than anyone with the trick diff, but it's certainly not a nightmare, is as docile as before the map in normal driving and just has the extra get up and go for if I want it.

 

I'm really happy with the standard vRS seats - seats are really such an individual matter.  Sasha doesn't like 'em, I do, QED.  But next time I will have heated seats as that is a little nicety I do miss.  The ones in my Superb were, errrr..... superb 

 

Gaz

29 minutes ago, V6TDI said:

Greetings Alex 

 

My 1992 Accord was probably one of the best cars I've owned.  

 

I've had the accord for 12 years now and I've driven many much more modern cars and tbh, if they still made the ATR and had isofix and air con, of just get another.  It's an excellent mix of size, power and fun, and it's a Honda, so its very reliable.

However, they don't and the old civics are 3dr, the newer ones are too pricey and look terrible.

 

When it comes to seats, personally I find these incredibly comfy (albeit getting a bit worn after 20 years) and unless I get another car with recaros is going to be a downgrade, leather or not.  But the wife's car has heated seats and it's quite nice in the winter.  Not essential, just a nice to have.

 

 

I had an Accord type R a long time ago for a couple of years when they were current models.

 

I remember it was a great handling car with good steering feel,excellent Recaro seats,as you say, and that characterful vTec engine.

Although I was a fan of N/A vTec Hondas (I've had a prelude and a Civic as well) the engines do have their limitations,that is very little torque when out of the vTec zone.

Because of this I would say any 230/245 vRS would easily be the equal or better performance wise to a Honda under normal road driving conditions...and without any go faster mods.

With the noise it make the Honda might seem faster,but I doubt it is.

 

Overall I don't think you would feel short changed going to a vRS ,which will be a better all rounder although it might feel less "sporty" than the Honda.

 

 

Ahoy Alex! I came from a Civic Type-R (EP3) to a PFL VRS 230 DSG thingy about 7 months ago.

 

I narrowed it down to a PFS or FS 230, but the diff and a couple of other options pushed me towards the pre-face 230.

Your research sounds correct and as usual the knowledge on this forum has filled in the blanks.

 

PFL 230 comes with the E-LSD thing which you can adjust in the settings menu, the exhaust makes a fart on upshifts at higher RPM, comes with heater leader (in the front), folding and auto-dimming mirrors, lots of black trim for extra blackness, lane assist, 19" kerb-finders, yadda yadda. It's good daily.

I wish the person before me had specced the nicer headunit, but it's not a deal breaker.

 

Personally, it took me a while to get used to as I'd never had anything this modern.

If you've never owned a DSG car, at first you will hate the DSG - Then you'll adapt and really like it. In town or on the morning commute, it's wonderfully calm.

On a B road in manual, it's basically Forza.

 

Regarding remaps, I'm still doing research myself - but haven't commited as I still have a warranty.

The tuning scene for the EA888 Gen3 is nuts and it appears to be a well-engineered lump, Revo is a good place to get an idea of baseline numbers for remaps.

I believe the DSG varient will actually take more power than the manual, but with a 10 year plan... (as echo'd above) there's a lot to be said for the simplicity of a manual.

 

I hope some of that was useful anyway.

Good luck whichever car you pick :)

3 hours ago, *JP* said:

I had an Accord type R a long time ago for a couple of years when they were current models.

 

I remember it was a great handling car with good steering feel,excellent Recaro seats,as you say, and that characterful vTec engine.

Although I was a fan of N/A vTec Hondas (I've had a prelude and a Civic as well) the engines do have their limitations,that is very little torque when out of the vTec zone.

Because of this I would say any 230/245 vRS would easily be the equal or better performance wise to a Honda under normal road driving conditions...and without any go faster mods.

With the noise it make the Honda might seem faster,but I doubt it is.

 

Overall I don't think you would feel short changed going to a vRS ,which will be a better all rounder although it might feel less "sporty" than the Honda.

 

 

Yep, out of VTEC a vRS would easily pull away from mine, which didn't used to bother me, as I'd just change down a gear or 3 (no joke).  However as I get older I'd quite like a bit of lazy torque too. You can't drive like you need to to make it move when you have your wife and child in the car, you look like an idiot...

But then again, pretty much everything is FI these days so that's quite standard.

 

I drive my wife's car (Mazda 6 Sport 180) most weekends as it's the family car.  That I guess is pretty similar to the TDI vRS.   Again, loads of torque, great economy, perfect for what we use it for, but although it does have that torque that doesn't compensate for the lack of out right power.  I'd take revs over torque myself, however ultimately I want both!

 

Regarding the box, my logic is similar to those above, if I'm not that bothered, may as well go the simple route.  Ultimately a dsg will wear out and need replacing as it's still got clutches (2 Vs 1 too) so long term manual seems sensible.

 

I'm guessing nobody has tried the quaife dif then?

 

Sorry, another question.

 

When did Meteor Grey become an option? Was this at the facelift?

I don't think I've seen a pre version but I'm not sure.

 

I think my ideal combo would be a pfl 230 in meteor Grey with 18s in manual, but I suspect that didn't exist.

The FL 245s are out of budget at the mo.

Edited 29 April, 20197 yr by Alex-W

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Sorry, another question.

 

When did Meteor Grey become an option? Was this at the facelift?

I don't think I've seen a pre version but I'm not sure.

 

I think my ideal combo would be a pfl 230 in meteor Grey with 18s in manual, but I suspect that didn't exist.

The FL 245s are out of budget at the mo.

PFL 230 would have come with 19s as standard. Plenty of 18s around second hand though or around £160 per wheel new from Skoda (list price). 

 

Not sure on the colours but the FL 245 Edition was only offered in a few colours (black, white and red I think), the PFL 230 may have been the same. Meteor Grey was definitely available PFL but maybe the PFL 230 specifically was colour limited. 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Sorry, another question.

 

When did Meteor Grey become an option? Was this at the facelift?

I don't think I've seen a pre version but I'm not sure.

 

I think my ideal combo would be a pfl 230 in meteor Grey with 18s in manual, but I suspect that didn't exist.

The FL 245s are out of budget at the mo.

If it makes any difference to what you can afford,bear in mind that you can get around 25% off a new vRS at the moment.

The Pre FL 245 was only available in Black, White, Red and Meteor Grey.

Just now, Auric Goldfinger said:

The Pre FL 245 was only available in Black, White, Red and Meteor Grey.

A pre FL 245? A rare car indeed 

1 hour ago, Alex-W said:

Sorry, another question.

 

When did Meteor Grey become an option? Was this at the facelift?

I don't think I've seen a pre version but I'm not sure.

 

I think my ideal combo would be a pfl 230 in meteor Grey with 18s in manual, but I suspect that didn't exist.

The FL 245s are out of budget at the mo.

 

Meteor Grey was available on pre FL and the pre FL 230 was only available with 19's.

 

The pre FL 230 was only available in Black Magic, Moon White (metallic), Meteor Grey and Corrida Red.

4 minutes ago, Kenai said:

PFL 230 would have come with 19s as standard. 

 

Really?

 

This one isn't too far from me and has 18s (which look nicer, are cheaper to put (decent) rubber on and are less likely to get damaged on the average British road).

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201902114810702?atmobcid=soc3

 

I've seen a few with these and assumed they were standard, 19" being the upgrade.

 

4 minutes ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

The Pre FL 245 was only available in Black, White, Red and Meteor Grey.

 

2 minutes ago, Kenai said:

A pre FL 245? A rare car indeed 

 

Well Spotted, I must have been thinking about my Pre FL 230 as I typed.  The FL 245 was only available in Black,White,Red and Meteor Grey

 

** EDITED **