Electric vehicles and charging

[Ootohere]

@gumdrop  If i am on Glenshee, Cairn O Mount or any long steep road and start going down hill with the car on for a mile or 3 without touching the accelerator but using the regen, or more regen or touching the brakes i regen all the way.  That is charging the battery.

 

If i reach the bottom and am on the flat and then get towed for a few miles and not using the accelerator the car will have the wheels charging the battery and attached to the motor.

 

Not going to tow mine,

but i fail to see what difference there is from gravity taking the car down or it being towed or pushed.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[wyx087]

It is correct there's no neutral and towing one could damage the EV. This is because the motor is always connected, without control electronics, towing an EV will generate electric current from the motor and could damage the rest of power circuits if not countered or controlled in any way.

 

But it is also okay to tow with the car switched-on (like the videos) and charge the EV this way. Extra load on the tow hooks and clutch of the towing vehicle though.

 

For FWD EV's, it's absolutely fine to load the front onto a dolly and tow this way.

[Ootohere]

I want one of these. 

The Cat track & flatbed not the i3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[J.R.]

Mesmerising, I want one too!

 

Does the tracked unit remain on the flatbed in that position with the car at an angle or does it release the car and go into some kind of docking station underneath?

 

Narrow drive too small for the recovery truck, I am guessing rear wheel(s) locked up requiring dollies, dangerous to use on a sloping drive without the vehicle handbrake.

 

If it was just a simple mechanical breakdown then the tracked unit was a bit of overkill but probably Elf & Safety says the operators cannot push vehicles any more.

Edited 20 August, 2021 by J.R.

[Ootohere]

So many uses.  Like Covid so not entering the car.   

Risk to life like the Salisbury poisoning where vehicles were being lifted by slings onto military vehicles.

 

Maybe needed to disable alarm, or just the key needed to open doors and disable the alarm.  Steering stays locked,

Recoveries of vehicles suspected of involved in crime so no evidence lost.   (There was a new Car Pound / Recovery programme on the telly last night.) 

 

Recovering cars like the Nissan Leaf left parked for over a year at my local Council Offices with windows closed, battery flat and a risk to health from the mould inside.

 

Car Pound Cops: Give me my car back.

https://www.channel5.com/show/car-pound-cops-give-me-my-car-back

 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Ootohere]

No way can this figure be accurate.

  '71% of cars in England are parked on a driveway or garaged overnight'.

?

Where did that come from, was it what people tell their insurance company when looking for insurance?  

Is it from the DVLA / DfT, or RAC / AA?

 

They do not even know how many are uninsured have no VED or registered to people that are not the keeper now.

 

 

 

 

[xman]

https://www.racfoundation.org/motoring-faqs/mobility#a6

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts09-vehicle-mileage-and-occupancy#table-nts0901

 

 

 

 

[wyx087]

9 minutes ago, xman said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts09-vehicle-mileage-and-occupancy#table-nts0901

Wow. About 60% park on private land and 10% garage. That's around 70% of cars that can be BEV without extra infrastructure on public roads for their daily miles (eg. commuting, errants).

 

I think on-road charging issue has been blown out of proportion. Let's get pass 50% of all car ownership to be electric first. Clearly the last few % will always be the hardest, it's better for the air quality and environment to concentrate on the mass adoption right now.

[xman]

I reckon @e-Roottoot is correct in that the statistics are just statistics, i.e. lies.

 

Probably 10% are declared on drive when there is no room because of 3 car household and one car drive or just a plain lie for insurance purposes.

 

Another 10% are off the radar, no insurance or declared at wrong address even wrong owner. A recent case in the papers about a poor guy whos been battling with DVLA for over a year that the uninsured car registered in his name and address is not his and not even there. £1000's of pounds in fines and ballifs threatening him.

 

Let us not forget that parking in car parks or in bays by tower blocks is usually on private land, but not really a drive or owned by the vehicle owner.

 

Would a landlord permit or fund  installation of a charger in his property, I suspect many would not allow any alterations. Maybe a law is required in that case.

Edited 20 August, 2021 by xman

[Ootohere]

Public Car Parks, Private car Parking / Car parks are not Drives which is the most obvious thing.

The UK Government 'average distance from a public charger' is really one of the most ridiculous figures they publish.

2019

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47696839

 

https://www.zap-map.com/statistics

 

 

 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[xman]

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Wow. About 60% park on private land and 10% garage. That's around 70% of cars that can be BEV without extra infrastructure on public roads for their daily miles (eg. commuting, errants).

 

I think on-road charging issue has been blown out of proportion. Let's get pass 50% of all car ownership to be electric first. Clearly the last few % will always be the hardest, it's better for the air quality and environment to concentrate on the mass adoption right now.

Those family houses with a standard single phase supply with 4 car/van owners parked on their drive, how do you charge them simultaneously?

[KenONeill]

2 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Those family houses with a standard single phase supply with 4 car/van owners parked on their drive, how do you charge them simultaneously?

Very slowly indeed!  

[Breezy_Pete]

Just need a dinky little genny like the one here:

JCB Electric Mini Digger 19C-1E Review - YouTube

 

[Ootohere]

They could have had a Large Storage Battery delivered, with a solar panel helps & this is for charging rather than a generator.  Maybe just for bigger sites.

Or tanks of 'green'hydrogen (produced from Solar generation) and a charger as will become more common where generators are used at Fairs, Country Shows, Festivals etc.

 

Smaller than these. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[Breezy_Pete]

In reality, they probably needed that genny there anyway, for other stuff. Wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. 

Cost of storage/renewable generation systems would presumably be out of reach of homeowners, generally.  EV early adopters will generally be more inclined to invest though, I guess.

[wyx087]

5 hours ago, xman said:

Those family houses with a standard single phase supply with 4 car/van owners parked on their drive, how do you charge them simultaneously?

Single phase charging at 7kW for 11 hours (eg. 8pm to 7am) gives 77 kWh. That can drive EV's around 300 miles. As long as combined miles of the household doesn't exceed 300 miles, there shouldn't be any problem powering all the cars' daily miles. There are already multi-chargers that intelligently load balance.

[Ootohere]

Battery storage in the house from recycling EV batteries is what is happening not only in homes but in businesses.  (Power Vault / Tesla Power Wall etc.)

Charging vehicles when needed from electric bought off peak or generated from solar or wind where they are.

 

Homes in Tayside have had the system installed for a few years now with the batteries in the cupboard under the stairs type location. 

Solar panels on the roof.   Part of a pilot scheme that has been successful. 

 

https://www.powervault.co.uk/article/powervault-and-renault-give-ev-batteries-a-second-life-in-smart-energy-deal

 

EV charging is as expensive or more as running an ICE if you are having to pay 69 pence a kWh or even 40 pence at pubic chargers.

40 kWh x 69 pence £27.60, 

if you get 4 miles per kWh 160 miles.

40 mpg in a nice prestige car with fuel at £5.91 a gallon, 4 gallons £26.64 for 160 miles.

 

40 kWH @ 40 pence is £16. 

if you get only 3 miles per kWh then that is 120 miles.  (as i sometimes get.)

Fuel @ 130 pence a litre, £5.91 a gallon & 50 mpg =150 miles for £17.73. 3 gallons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[xman]

 

Quote

How much is a Tesla Powerwall 2 in the UK? The current price for a fully installed Tesla Powerwall 2 system will be between £8,600 and £10,500 depending on the complexity of the installation needed, and the VAT rate you are eligible for.

 

[Ootohere]

What a good economic investment for those business users / companies getting grants on vehicles, chargers & the tax breaks and the saving on liquid fuel and congestion / low emission zone charges.

Car Brokers / Traders / Mechanics, Taxi drivers, Couriers, trades people, reps etc etc, sole traders.

http://fuseaccountants.co.uk/fusenews/electric-cars

 

 

Edited 21 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[xman]

35 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

What a good economic investment for those business users / companies getting grants on vehicles, chargers & the tax breaks and the saving on liquid fuel and congestion / low emission zone charges.

Taxi drivers, Couriers, trades people, reps etc etc, sole traders.

 

Not sure if @e-Roottoot is being sarcastic about using off vehicle battery storage.

 

Powerwall 2 has a capacity of 13.5kwh. Its maximum charge/discharge rate is 3.68/5kW, round trip efficiency of around 90%.

 

Never mind the £10k+ you would typically need if you want "free" solar power which may not charge it fully on every day of the year. Note if you don't recharge using your own solar panels, and use cheap off peak electricity to charge, then Tesla's warranty is limited to a total aggregate throughput of 37.8 MWh which is 2800 full cycles.

 

As a business owner I don't see how this would ever be a good investment as a buffer for EV charging.

 

 

Edited 21 August, 2021 by xman

[Ootohere]

Your business might be different from others business's  where they know the cost of things and the value of them as well.

That will be those already benefiting from the systems available.

 

If not worth getting then just say no.

 

None as blind as those that can not see or are not interested in the future. 

 

If what is available now is not for you then newer tech is not that far off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[wyx087]

6 hours ago, xman said:

As a business owner I don't see how this would ever be a good investment as a buffer for EV charging.

Home battery were never intended for this.

 

EV's and home battery charge during off-peak night time, if not enough solar during the day. You effectively use 100% of your electricity either on solar or during the cheapest periods.

 

For my house, I think a tiny 3-5kWh battery would be suffice for home use.  Which is why I am looking forward to Vehicle-2-home, because we pretty much will always have at least 4kWh left in the tiny-battery Leaf. 4kWh is when low-battery-warning sounds. So any larger battery car will have no problem powering my house through the expensive period

[PetrolDave]

On 20/08/2021 at 20:35, wyx087 said:

Single phase charging at 7kW for 11 hours (eg. 8pm to 7am) gives 77 kWh. That can drive EV's around 300 miles. As long as combined miles of the household doesn't exceed 300 miles, there shouldn't be any problem powering all the cars' daily miles. There are already multi-chargers that intelligently load balance.

77kWh in doesn't mean 77kWh added to the batteries as battery charging efficiency isn't 100%, more like 70% = so the batteries will have more like 54kWh added charge making more like 210 miles.

[Ootohere]

My 50 kW battery is 45kWh usable and that is what it takes when I charge to an indicated 100% where it will not regen to under 98% indicated.   I know how much the car is consuming and what is added at chargers   . So simply if turning up at a charger with little charge / range left I am putting in 40,kWh free or now paying for if I want as much range till charging again. ........I asked my mate who had a business delivering fish how he is getting on with his new Electric van and solar power at his outbuilding.  So far so good and the Powerwall set up works for the fridges he has running.  He will see how it works out over this winter. He is thinking on chopping his car in for an Enyaq but need the big battery and winter tyres and a tow bar for going to events / markets. 

 

 

Edited 22 August, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[lol-lol]

11 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

My 50 kW battery is 45kWh usable and that is what it takes when I charge to an indicated 100% where it will not regen to under 98% indicated.   I know how much the car is consuming and what is added at chargers   ........I asked my mate who had a business delivering fish how he is getting on with his new Electric van and solar power at his outbuilding.  So far so good and the Powerwall set up works for the fridges he has running.  He will see how it works out over this winter. He is thinking on chopping his car in for an Enyaq but need the big battery and winter tyres and a tow bar for going to events / markets. 

 

Hi George, do you use a VSD Bluetooth thingy that can tell your smart phone all the true values ie how much real battery is left, battery temp, efficiency of power usage ?

 

The LeafSpy system looks very good to get several more miles out of the Leaf and for £25 for both the VCD Bluetooth thingy and App seems well worth it, same available for the 50 kw PSA platformed cars ?