I've searched through various topics on this site and on Google and in the past, I've considered remaps many times and always chickened out because of it voiding any warranty claims against the engine and gearbox.

 

In the real world has anyone had a remap and had problems with their car as a result or is it quite the opposite and you think its worthwhile? 

 

Economy is supposed to be improved but is that myth I wonder? Inevitably there will be temptations to utilise the increased power which goes against economy savings anyway. 

 

The next door neighbour planted the seed of curiosity during a chat today 😂

 

1.4 TSI 150 DSG - SEL estate 

Edited 9 February, 20206 yr by Doctor_Strange

Depends really. On a slower car you need to be mindful of overpowering it compared to brakes and suspension imo. On my 245 vrs, it struggles to put all the power down from slow /standstill anyway and certainly doesn't struggle to get up as fast as I'd want to go before hitting a corner. Can see why people would do it for the grin factor but not sure it would feel worth it to me.  I'd possibly even go for a nice set of shocks and springs before a remap on my car, if I was going to do anything.  

There are many reasons for a remap.  Some of the diesels have flat spots where the boost is delivered and then tails off.  With a map the boost can be more consistent making it a smoother delivery of power.

Throttle response can be improved, torque limiting in lower gears added or removed to save the clutch, etc.  It's not just peak power that you get.

 

As for the economy, my mk2 1.9 saw some improvement on top of the added power and much much smoother output.  Mk3 2.0tdi has not seen so much of an improvement in economy but the increase in power and response is great.  I am looking at tweaking the dsg now as I believe the torque is being limited by it.  The stock torque is a little below the max that the dsg can handle so it limits the engine output.  With a change to the dsg programming it can release the remapped power of the engine more effectively.

 

As you can see there are all sort of things to consider.  It depends on what suit you.  And yes, if you drive to the new power you will see more fuel usage.  if you drive in a similar way to before then you will likely see an improvement in economy.

'Worthwhile' tends to be a pretty objective assessment, and there are a lot of dependencies on what / how / where you drive etc. and how much you're willing to change about the vehicle. Most people on the forum here have remapped larger-engined Octavia TDIs and TSIs (2.0L) for power, but then they have also gained fuel efficiency (through changing timing & fuelling) and other benefits like a flatter torque curve.

 

For me, I bought my (pre-FL) VRS 230 outright and wasn't going to take it to Skoda dealerships for service as a) I don't like silly prices for sub-standard labour, and b) I was always going to modify it - so warranty wasn't an issue. Modification for me was due to 'optimising' a car I would keep for a while, and making it my own. I modified the springs, lower engine mount (to stop axle tramp), then did induction system and exhaust before going down the remap route.

 

The remap was in the spirit of optimisation: the EA888 engine is pretty robust (seeing as VAG chucked it into almost every model since 2014), so I wanted to ensure it was 'mapped' to my hardware modifications, had a better torque delivery, more power (was dyno'd at 260bhp stock), and improve the standard efficiency from 34mpg avg. in the process.

 

Cons: I had my EMS light on for about 9 months whilst the guys at Racingline (previously Shark) tried to decrypt the fault code over several remote tests before going up to Milton Keynes to have it checked and fixed there. Otherwise, zero problems experienced with the engine - typically because the proper providers (Racingline, APR, Revo etc) know what they're doing.

 

Benefits: Increased power (assumed 300+ bhp - getting dyno'd in few weeks); noticeable torque delivery improvements; rise from 34mpg to >38mpg avg.

 

For a 1.4 TSI DSG, a remap should improve fuel efficiency and torque delivery. You may see some power increases too, but perhaps not exactly why you are looking at doing it...? Depends how long you have the car to see whether it's worthwhile.

I've had a 150 Octavia remapped to about 200 hp and a 1.6 Rapid from 88 to 150.  Both cost about £250.  The octavia benefits from much crisper acceleration and top speed obviously, but it now "hangs on" in higher gears when accelerating on a lighter throttle as there is much more torque to allow it to do this.  Tried it against an Audi A5 S-line (175hp) and it wasn't even trying against a flat out A5. (private motorway, of course)

MPG is about the same

The Rapid is completely different.  Its now what a "rapid" should have been. Knocked seconds off 30 - 70 in a straight line which is exactly what I wanted.  Fuel comsumptoon is perhaps worse, but , then, I do tend to play with the extra performance

For all those of you that report a decrease in fuel consumption at the same time as increased performance.

 

On the face of it it's either a contradiction in terms or the manufacturer must have tried very hard despite their expertise & multi-million R&D budget to create such inefficient engines that can become more efficient by fiddling the fuel pressure and throwing more fuel in.

 

My sarcasm apart, my question to those who report better fuel economy is are you calculating it over a long period using tank to tank consumption perhaps using an app like Fuelly or relying on what the maxidot display tells you?

 

For my own experience I was very pleased with the extra power which naturally I used a lot initially like a new toy, somewhat bemused to see the instantaneous and trip fuel consumption decrease and the available range of the tank increase beyond what it had ever been before, yet as the tank contents were used the range dropped faster and I had to refuel at less miles when the tank was nearly empty, the calculation showed an increaase in fuel consumption, to be expected as I had been giving it the beans but the long term Maxidot trip consumption was decreasing.

 

After 6 months being sure that I had the true long term figures I had to correct the displayed consumption via VCDS by IIRC 12% but some, maybe most of that was optimism that was already built in by VAG as my calculated consumptions were always less than the displayed even before the remap.

 

The in my view false claims of decreased fuel consumption  (editted correction) made are what put me off buying a "tuning box" for my CR engined Yeti, I know those fiddle with the output of the fuel rail pressure sensor making the fuel pressure higher and over-fuelling the engine whilst the ECU and fuel computer think that the same amount of fuel is being used, oeverfuelled = more power and at a steady speed a smaller throttle opening hence the ECU calculating and the maxidot displaying better fuel economy.

 

I think I will desire more power from my 108hp Yeti, I really think the tuning boxes are a terrible bodge and would really like to hear from those with remapped engines that genuinely are getting better fuel consumption rather than believing they are from what the car dash display is telling them.

Edited 10 February, 20206 yr by J.R.

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

in my view false claims of decreased fuel economy

Surely that's a good thing, since it would mean improved fuel economy for a remapped car?

Sorry, meant decreased fuel consumption, dyslexia perhaps, will go back through and edit the posting if its not too late.

IF there is one thing that dieselgate and 1.5tsi 'kangaroo-ing' fiascos have taught us then it is that it is surprisingly difficult for a manufacturer to get an engine to meet legislative and customer requirements for power/economy/emissions/reliability/good driving characteristics over a wide range of driving environments.

However if you remove a criteria or two (particularly emissions) then it becomes quite possible to achieve better efficiencies from an engine while producing more power. However where there is a confirmed consumption improvement it tends to be relatively small compared to the power increase but obviously welcome none the less.

 

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

are you calculating it over a long period using tank to tank consumption perhaps using an app like Fuelly or relying on what the maxidot display tells you?

 

I use fuelio and noted a 3-4 mpg increase post mapping on the 1.9.  No notable difference on the 2.0tdi but I use the power more so makes for happier motoring.

 

@Gerrycan has nailed it I think.  I doubt many tuners consider emissions to be a priority aside from keeping it legal for MOT.  If I removed my pedal box and changed the 17s back to regular tyres (not winter) then I think I would see 3-4 mpg gain.  As it is I like the way the pedal box works with the mapped ecu and it makes the car far more enjoyable to drive.  If a map reduced economy to the 30s then I would not do it but a even a slight reduction would be ok for how much better the car is to live with.

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Sorry, meant decreased fuel consumption

OK.

 

Well, I can answer the question you meant to ask. There is such a thing as a "half and half mapping", which increases peak power on full throttle, and backs off fuelling as far as possible on say half throttle or less. This can actually give better power and economy (or not; that's dependent on your driving technique). OK?

Good points re the emissions and its encouraging to hear some verified rather than indicated better fuel economy.

 

I am not dissappointed with my remap, far from it and it was never done with the expectation of getting better fuel economy.

 

My Yeti has had the emissions fix according to the on line resources, before my ownership so I have no idea if its better or worse, it seems to drive OK although perhaps using more fuel than I expected, I wont really know either until I have driven it for a month doing my usual journeys.

 

I think I will probably go for a remap as its effectively a detuned engine with the extra drag of the 4WD transmission, I am wary of the tuning boxes for the reasons given above but is my scepticism justified?

 

I think that a remap would be more effective and less likely to result in across the range overfuelling (maybe there are more to the tuning boxes than just raising the fuel rail pressure without the ECU knowing) but would a proper remap be effective given that the emissions fix is in place?

 

Reasoned advice on this decision would be very welcome!

Edited 10 February, 20206 yr by J.R.

@J.R. - Well, my understanding it that the "emissions fix" is a remap because it alters the fuel and ignition timing, and the fuel volume, which is what any remap does. A bought stage 1 remap will effectively undo the EF, and then further modify the parameters.

Logical but I'm not sure it will actually "undo" the fix.

 

Cant recall who I was in touch with but it was one of the well known and respected concerns, their remapping is done by local tuners either at your home or their (the local tuner) premises, they said that if the vehicle had had the emissions fix it would have to be driven to their head office workshop for it to be deleted & put back to standard before remapping, think they were in Newquay Cornwall.

 

Of course there was an extra charge!!

What a difficult question to answer.

 

I had my vRS remapped on a Revo Stage 1.  It was 240bhp standard (tested at JKM).  The Stage 1 took it to around 300bhp (untested - maybe a bit more).  It was a lot quicker, post remap.

 

Was it worth it?  Probably not in financial terms. My opportunities to use the extra power were few and far between, and I don't go on track days.  I have a couple of favourite spots where I could give it a blast, but they were only moments, even if they did put a childish grin on my face.  Fuel economy dropped - probably more my driving style than anything to do with the car.

 

I had a turbo go pop.  The reason was unrelated to the map.  Had it not been re-mapped this would have been covered under warranty.  The TD1 marker meant that it was not.  It was an expensive lesson.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the extra power.  There was a certain thrill in surprising other cars.  Will I have the GTI remapped? Nope.  Will I remap any future cars?  Probably not.

 

Gaz

Always had recaps done on my cars. Never had a problem with any but then I have ALWAYS used very reputable tuners not plug ins or boxes or drive way maps. Always had rolling road tuning done and map based on the car sensor log files and limits as opposed to generics. 
always done well in excess of 100k miles on every vehicle without an engine fault.. even on eyetalian stuff lol. 
agree with some of the above too. If you do have a map and a component fails that relates to what the map could affect then it may not be covered on warrantee regardless of whether it failed due to the map or not !! 

Well this is certainly interesting reading, thanks for the input. I got some quotes just to see what the ball park figure was. 

 

Dynotech at Ripley have a good reputation and quote:

 

The price for mapping your Octavia would be £350 including VAT.  The increases should be in the region of 25-28 hp with up to 70Nm torque. The work usually takes about 4 hours to complete.  A Stage 1 map would cause no issues for the gearbox.

 

JBS auto designs from Chesterfield who claim to be VAG specialists quote:

 

 

We tend to tune these gearboxes at the same time as any remap, just so that it can correctly adjust for the new torque levels, however our custom Stage 1 doesn’t come close to the limit that these gearboxes can take with these engines fitted.

Stage 1 we tend to see around 180BHP and 230Ftlb, which is 30BHP and 40Ftlb over stock and quite a way off the 280-300ftlb that these gearboxes can take and do take when they are paired to the larger 1.8tsi engines also found in the VW/Audi range.

 

Currently as a pair the price for the custom stage 1 and DSG software is £450 all in, and includes free before and after power runs with dyno print out.

@Doctor_Strange - Well, neither of those names mean anything to me off hand, but the quoted extra power and torque is reasonable rather than a male bovine faeces number!

On the warrantee front Superchips offer an engine and gearbox warrantee with the remap. Other companies like BSR do similar. 

 

On any tuned vehicle I'd say make sure you do regular servicing and use decent fuel. I've had cars tuned for many years without any issue. An Astra CDTI 150 diesel and a Saab 9-3 1.9 TTiD were both tuned at day 1 of ownership without any issue. I had the Saab 9 years and my son in law is still using it. The Saab went from 180bhp and 400nm to 215bhp and 450nm, its a nice drive. 

 

On the economy front I don't do many long motorway runs so I never get great economy, but I have found the temptation to use the power at some point of just about every journey outweighs any gains. 

 

 

How much extra insurance are people paying when they declared their remap?

20 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

How much extra insurance are people paying when they declared their remap?

Literally nothing  with LV - not concerned about BHP, but the additional modifications like exhaust, rear skirt etc are seen as 'assets' (including dashcam), which increased the cost incrementally when added.

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

How much extra insurance are people paying when they declared their remap?

How long is a piece of string? LV= don't charge for a stage 1 map, even a custom map, but some other companies would see my premium double!

Just to get a definite answer, I contacted Skoda online who said that a remap will void the entire warranty. So if they discover a remap and I'm trying to claim for a faulty window seal, they will refuse to honour the claim. 

3 minutes ago, Doctor_Strange said:

Just to get a definite answer, I contacted Skoda online who said that a remap will void the entire warranty. So if they discover a remap and I'm trying to claim for a faulty window seal, they will refuse to honour the claim. 

You look to have phoned someone who's just about to take up a job with another company!

Normally they say that only related items may be affected.

I doubt that the window seal will be remapped along with the engine so guess what...........

Yes it seems completely illogical to me and the window seal example is obviously far fetched but they claim every aspect of the warranty is void if a remap is purchased.